Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 03-01-08, 01:10 AM	If someone has resistance to acid, that also works against alkaline stuff like lye, right? I think that "acid" in D&D is a general term for "rapidly corrosive stuff," and both acids and bases would fall under that category rules-wise. At least, that's my take. What do you think?
ZiggZagg 03-01-08, 01:27 AM	Ummm...well You may be right, but I wouldn't go opening up an energizer battery on your character to test it out:P
Someone 03-01-08, 01:53 AM	I would think any alkaline strong enough to do damage in D&D would probably just end up being described as "acid damage", even though it isn't a chemical acid. And if it weren't the case, I could only imagine all the wizards suddenly wanting "Energy Substitution: Base", if only because absolutely nothing has base resistance.
Kouk 03-01-08, 03:10 AM	I think it is best to just leave "damaging chemicals" as counting as Acid elemental damage in general. Or just pretend they don't exist except for crafting purposes. EDIT: Unless you don't mind players demanding "Vials of Base" to throw at enemies, and "Base Elementals" from the para-elemental plane of Base. EDIT 2: Actually, that could be an interesting campaign houserule, involving a war between the Plane of Acid and the Plane of Base. They have always hated each other the way Fire Elementals hate Water Elementals...
Weab 03-01-08, 10:16 AM	this is the time for an ace of base joke, or an all your base joke. someone, please help me out.
rjsilverthorn 03-01-08, 10:36 AM	For the sake of sanity I would rule acid resistance to apply to all caustic and corrosive substances. Elsewise you'll eventually have players with chemistry books out debating the varying alkaline properties vs the acidity of substances and if they should cause more or less damage. EDIT 2: Actually, that could be an interesting campaign houserule, involving a war between the Plane of Acid and the Plane of Base. They have always hated each other the way Fire Elementals hate Water Elementals... Would the Plane of Acid and the Plane of Base be separated by the quasi-plane of CO2? Which wizards then tap into to create volcanos for their kids magic fair projects?
Dog_O_War 03-01-08, 11:15 AM	If someone has resistance to acid, that also works against alkaline stuff like lye, right? I think that "acid" in D&D is a general term for "rapidly corrosive stuff," and both acids and bases would fall under that category rules-wise. At least, that's my take. What do you think? "Acid" in d&d is elemental in nature - not scientific, so if you figure that a base is the same elemental damage (earth) as acid, then the answer is yes. Also, why does this matter? Is someone stealing all your base?
Someone 03-01-08, 12:42 PM	this is the time for an ace of base joke, or an all your base joke. someone, please help me out.Well, bass resistance is already covered by sonic damage. Otherwise, you'd be in treble. :rimshot:
1 ton ghost 03-01-08, 01:06 PM	Well, bass resistance is already covered by sonic damage. Otherwise, you'd be in treble. :rimshot: :rolleyes: i actually snickered there a bit... surprised no one said anything about bases being slippery in physical property and in this argument metaphorically or a quip about an acid trip.
rjsilverthorn 03-01-08, 01:09 PM	Well, bass resistance is already covered by sonic damage. Otherwise, you'd be in treble. :rimshot: Bass resistance? Sounds fishy to me.
Jackmojo 03-02-08, 08:11 PM	If someone has resistance to acid, that also works against alkaline stuff like lye, right? I think that "acid" in D&D is a general term for "rapidly corrosive stuff," and both acids and bases would fall under that category rules-wise. At least, that's my take. What do you think? There are no base's in DnD, and acid is a type of energy not a chemical...so make of that what you will... Jack
Saiyamantis 03-03-08, 02:46 AM	If someone has resistance to acid, that also works against alkaline stuff like lye, right? I think that "acid" in D&D is a general term for "rapidly corrosive stuff," and both acids and bases would fall under that category rules-wise. I suppose a good rule of thumb for this would be "all your base are belong to acid."
PowerslaveLC 03-03-08, 09:59 AM	"Acid" in d&d is elemental in nature - not scientific, so if you figure that a base is the same elemental damage (earth) as acid, then the answer is yes. [/I]? I don't know much about the finer details of D&D I am inclined to agree with the acid being elemental and possibly magical, or just made ridiculously stronger, in relation to its strength. The idea of using a base is interesting but if comparing to real world base to real world acid the base would not be strong enough even if using a strong base NaOH etc. Nor do I think you could find a base with the same strength of corrosive properties as 18M Sulfuric Acid, theres just none that exist. As a former potential Chem. major, acid's and bases operate in opposite ways. So my thought is that bases and acids would be lumped together for the term "acid" for simplification and that the designers probably didn't think about bases being strong enough or even at all. So JulesCARV I have to agree with your statement of "general term for "rapidly corrosive stuff."" On a side thought the idea of acid and base elementals fighting each other is hilarious and a little nuts. When you add a strong base and a strong acid (not corrosive strength, strength as an electrolyte) you get pure water, if you added proportional amounts of each base and acid so they both completely react. (If a fire and water elemental were fighting would the water put the fire out?)
Someone 03-03-08, 01:22 PM	So in the war between acid elementals and base elementals, would salt elementals be acting as a buffer? :hides:
Frozen Yakman 03-03-08, 03:22 PM	Yes, but Water Elementals would always be mixing it all up.
ToastedAmphibian 03-03-08, 04:29 PM	The war between the acid and base elementals is what created the fire and water elementals anyways...... Acid + Base= Heat + Water + Salt And the elemental planes of fire, water, and earth where born! now where the hell did the plane of air come from?
DeathlessJuan 03-03-08, 07:55 PM	The war between the acid and base elementals is what created the fire and water elementals anyways...... Acid + Base= Heat + Water + Salt And the elemental planes of fire, water, and earth where born! now where the hell did the plane of air come from? Oxygen + Acid + Base = Heat + Water + Salt + Oxygen. Oxygen is an ever present element in all non-enclosed experiments and can, on occasion, end up in the mix. Let's just call it a catalyst or something. That accounts for everything. Pockets of air exist in the elemental planes of earth, air is dispersed through water so that things may breath via gills in the water elemental plane and fire uses air to fuel itself on the plane of fire. :P
PowerslaveLC 03-04-08, 12:09 AM	Oxygen + Acid + Base = Heat + Water + Salt + Oxygen. Oxygen is an ever present element in all non-enclosed experiments and can, on occasion, end up in the mix. Let's just call it a catalyst or something. That accounts for everything. Pockets of air exist in the elemental planes of earth, air is dispersed through water so that things may breath via gills in the water elemental plane and fire uses air to fuel itself on the plane of fire. :P I don't like the chemistry your pulling in here, and I like to thank ToastedAmphibian for pointing out that you would get a salt out of it. The oxygen, yes it's part of the system like the beaker your mixing the acid and base in. Yes ToastedAmphibian, you've got a solid point about where the elements came from. But DeathlessJuan I like your point about how air, well you should say oxygen, is part of water. But you do not get a release of oxygen from mixing acids and bases, I need to confirm this with my chem prof though, but thats probably a level of chem not suited for this discussion. Someone: salt would act as a buffer if attached to a week acid but not just as a salt alone, NaCl, KCl etc. and again a different level of chem for this area. On a differant note has anyone as a DM have a player ask about this? Or anyone as a player ask their DM about this? I'm thinking about trying to pull a fast one on my DM because I'm the only chem guy in our group.
JulesCARV 03-04-08, 02:46 AM	Wrong thread. Meant to post here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=975629)
sblaxman 03-04-08, 02:44 PM	Thanks, this post cheered me up after the gygax news. Bravo all
PowerslaveLC 03-04-08, 11:05 PM	So in the war between acid elementals and base elementals, would salt elementals be acting as a buffer? :hides: After some note revisiting I am proud to say that "you are correct sir/madam." As long as the acid and base were weak acid and base (anything not HCl, HBr, HI, HNO3, HClO4, H2SO4 and H3O+ for acids and NaOH, OH-, KOH, LiOH and RbOH.) so as long as both elementals are weak acids or bases the salt would act as a buffer. Oh and I would like to point out Someone that my lab prof. loved your comment.
mythandra 03-05-08, 10:06 AM	Here, let me solve this one. Any player using a base in lieu of an acid is attempting to circumvent the rules -- plain and simple. True, in real life they are vastly different beasts. In D&D, however, there is no difference between them. They are both corrosive and therefore covered under "acid". In my game, we have this little rule called, "if it's good enough for the players, it's good enough for the villains." If the players take advantage of some syntactical hole in the rules, you can bet that the villains will see this and exploit it themselves. Most people know when they're taking advantage of something that the rules never intended yet, technically speaking, allow. 99% of the time, these rules loop-holes confer some kind of super-power that imbalances the game and, sometimes, has no defense. Unless you want this unstoppable power to be used against you, you will not take advantage of what you know should not exist. That's how it works at my table. You see, fear will keep the local systems in line...
PowerslaveLC 03-05-08, 10:34 AM	In my game, we have this little rule called, "if it's good enough for the players, it's good enough for the villains." If the players take advantage of some syntactical hole in the rules, you can bet that the villains will see this and exploit it themselves. .... Unless you want this unstoppable power to be used against you, you will not take advantage of what you know should not exist. ... You see, fear will keep the local systems in line... You have a point and I agree. This would be basically working around the rules. I don't feel that this is really an unstoppable power since a flask of acid only does 1d6 so a flask of base would only do 1d6 if you were trying to balance the damage. The base would probably do less maybe 1d5 worth or 1d4 since base is "weaker" then acid. Unless your referring to something other then what I just said, and if so please enlighten me. They way I see it, fallow the rules but if you are going to make a change/addition you have to be ready to accept the worst that could come out of it.