Actual Size Decrease by Level? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Actual Size Decrease by Level? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
unfortunate_crow
04-18-07, 08:43 PM Is there a formula for the size difference between equipment designed for smaller races? What is the size of a small staff compared to a medium, or a tiny compared to a small?

The reason I ask is that one of my players wants to craft a special arrowhead.

Instead of penetrating the target, the impact forces the nose backwards which splits a fine or diminutive staff of power situated perpendicular to the shaft.

Since they are fine with dropping 200k for a one-shot device, I am going to let them do it. However, I need to know how big the little staff of power actually is.

I went ahead and guessed at a starting length of six feet.
Tempest Stormwind
04-18-07, 09:26 PM Magic weapons all resize as appropriate to their wielders.

So:A typical staff is 4 feet to 7 feet long and 2 inches to 3 inches thick, weighing about 5 pounds.Averaging 5'6", in other words.

In D&D humans range from 5'0" to 6'6" (for men) and 4'7" to 6'1" (for women), averages 5'6.5".

On the assumption that most staffs were designed with humans in mind, it shows that most staves are about the same size as their wielders, give or take a bit for aesthetics (a longer-than-usual staff can look impressive with the right headpiece, while a shorter one enables cane-like behaviour or monk-staff twirls).

According to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLi ttleCreaturesInCombat), a Diminutive wielder is about 6 inches to 1 foot tall, meaning a scale of about 1/11 or 1/5.5, depending on what you want. I'd suggest using the 1/5.5 ratio, since that's pretty close (using back-of-the-envelope calculations and a small amount of personal archery experience) to the length of an arrow sized for a Small bow.

Using that same ratio on the thickness of the staff and assuming it's as thick as it could be made, the shaft is going to be about a foot long and half an inch thick. You could even go thinner and it would still theoretically work as an arrow.
unfortunate_crow
04-18-07, 10:10 PM So a fine-sized one would be about 1 inch to 2 inches then?
Tempest Stormwind
04-18-07, 10:20 PM So a fine-sized one would be about 1 inch to 2 inches then?

You said "fine or diminutive", and I assumed that the arrow shaft itself would be the staff, so I worked off of that (a Fine one would be too small except perhaps as a hand crossbow bolt). I didn't realize upon a closer reread that you plan on sticking the staff *in* the arrow itself, which changes things around a bit (since you could just use Shrink Item).
SALDAR
04-18-07, 10:23 PM Magic weapons all resize as appropriate to their wielders.
No they don't.

From the SRD:
SIZE AND MAGIC ITEMS
When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.
There may be rare exceptions, especially with racial specific items.
Armor and Weapon Sizes: Armor and weapons that are found at random have a 30% chance of being Small (01–30), a 60% chance of being Medium (31–90), and a 10% chance of being any other size (91–100).

Also from the SRD:
Weapon Size: Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.
A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.

As for the dimensions of the staff, it's about the size of an arrow (don't overthink it).
Yadot
04-18-07, 11:39 PM No they don't.

From the SRD:
SIZE AND MAGIC ITEMS
When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.
There may be rare exceptions, especially with racial specific items.
Armor and Weapon Sizes: Armor and weapons that are found at random have a 30% chance of being Small (01–30), a 60% chance of being Medium (31–90), and a 10% chance of being any other size (91–100).

Also from the SRD:
Weapon Size: Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.
A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.

As for the dimensions of the staff, it's about the size of an arrow (don't overthink it).
From your own quote:

From the SRD:
SIZE AND MAGIC ITEMS
When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.
There may be rare exceptions, especially with racial specific items.
Armor and Weapon Sizes: Armor and weapons that are found at random have a 30% chance of being Small (01–30), a 60% chance of being Medium (31–90), and a 10% chance of being any other size (91–100).
WHW4
04-18-07, 11:50 PM From your own quote:

From the SRD:
SIZE AND MAGIC ITEMS
When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.
There may be rare exceptions, especially with racial specific items.
Armor and Weapon Sizes: Armor and weapons that are found at random have a 30% chance of being Small (01–30), a 60% chance of being Medium (31–90), and a 10% chance of being any other size (91–100).

From your own quoting of a quote. Size doesn't matter with a magic vest, belt, pair of gloves, or amulet. Those all resize. A greatsword, even if it's all you wear, is not a garment.
Tempest Stormwind
04-19-07, 12:26 AM I may have been wrong. Big whoop, that doesn't change the fact that you could make a Fine or Diminutive staff, and thus the rest of the thread is still valid.
unfortunate_crow
04-19-07, 10:39 AM So would a fine-sized staff be about the size of a toothpick?

The player's design is such that the head of the arrow is a bolt which depresses upon impact, pushing rearwards and snapping the "fine" staff (which is mounted perpendicular to the arrow shaft) in half; creating a retributive strike on impact. (is RETSTRIKE affected by anti-magic fields?)
WHW4
04-19-07, 01:32 PM If it were me, I'd make all of this alot simpler by making him get a bolt enchanted with the properties he's wanting. It would cost the same, he'd maybe even have to get the group to go with him on a quest to find a powerful enough mage to do the job.

I say this because, as a DM, sometimes the easiest way to work with the rules is not to work with them at all. You can make anything happen.

That's simply my opinion, but I really feel that it would be alot more simple.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
unfortunate_crow 04-18-07, 08:43 PM	Is there a formula for the size difference between equipment designed for smaller races? What is the size of a small staff compared to a medium, or a tiny compared to a small? The reason I ask is that one of my players wants to craft a special arrowhead. Instead of penetrating the target, the impact forces the nose backwards which splits a fine or diminutive staff of power situated perpendicular to the shaft. Since they are fine with dropping 200k for a one-shot device, I am going to let them do it. However, I need to know how big the little staff of power actually is. I went ahead and guessed at a starting length of six feet.
Tempest Stormwind 04-18-07, 09:26 PM	Magic weapons all resize as appropriate to their wielders. So:A typical staff is 4 feet to 7 feet long and 2 inches to 3 inches thick, weighing about 5 pounds.Averaging 5'6", in other words. In D&D humans range from 5'0" to 6'6" (for men) and 4'7" to 6'1" (for women), averages 5'6.5". On the assumption that most staffs were designed with humans in mind, it shows that most staves are about the same size as their wielders, give or take a bit for aesthetics (a longer-than-usual staff can look impressive with the right headpiece, while a shorter one enables cane-like behaviour or monk-staff twirls). According to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLi ttleCreaturesInCombat), a Diminutive wielder is about 6 inches to 1 foot tall, meaning a scale of about 1/11 or 1/5.5, depending on what you want. I'd suggest using the 1/5.5 ratio, since that's pretty close (using back-of-the-envelope calculations and a small amount of personal archery experience) to the length of an arrow sized for a Small bow. Using that same ratio on the thickness of the staff and assuming it's as thick as it could be made, the shaft is going to be about a foot long and half an inch thick. You could even go thinner and it would still theoretically work as an arrow.
unfortunate_crow 04-18-07, 10:10 PM	So a fine-sized one would be about 1 inch to 2 inches then?
Tempest Stormwind 04-18-07, 10:20 PM	So a fine-sized one would be about 1 inch to 2 inches then? You said "fine or diminutive", and I assumed that the arrow shaft itself would be the staff, so I worked off of that (a Fine one would be too small except perhaps as a hand crossbow bolt). I didn't realize upon a closer reread that you plan on sticking the staff in the arrow itself, which changes things around a bit (since you could just use Shrink Item).
SALDAR 04-18-07, 10:23 PM	Magic weapons all resize as appropriate to their wielders. No they don't. From the SRD: SIZE AND MAGIC ITEMS When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items. There may be rare exceptions, especially with racial specific items. Armor and Weapon Sizes: Armor and weapons that are found at random have a 30% chance of being Small (01–30), a 60% chance of being Medium (31–90), and a 10% chance of being any other size (91–100). Also from the SRD: Weapon Size: Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder. As for the dimensions of the staff, it's about the size of an arrow (don't overthink it).
Yadot 04-18-07, 11:39 PM	No they don't. From the SRD: SIZE AND MAGIC ITEMS When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items. There may be rare exceptions, especially with racial specific items. Armor and Weapon Sizes: Armor and weapons that are found at random have a 30% chance of being Small (01–30), a 60% chance of being Medium (31–90), and a 10% chance of being any other size (91–100). Also from the SRD: Weapon Size: Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder. As for the dimensions of the staff, it's about the size of an arrow (don't overthink it). From your own quote: From the SRD: SIZE AND MAGIC ITEMS When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items. There may be rare exceptions, especially with racial specific items. Armor and Weapon Sizes: Armor and weapons that are found at random have a 30% chance of being Small (01–30), a 60% chance of being Medium (31–90), and a 10% chance of being any other size (91–100).
WHW4 04-18-07, 11:50 PM	From your own quote: From the SRD: SIZE AND MAGIC ITEMS When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items. There may be rare exceptions, especially with racial specific items. Armor and Weapon Sizes: Armor and weapons that are found at random have a 30% chance of being Small (01–30), a 60% chance of being Medium (31–90), and a 10% chance of being any other size (91–100). From your own quoting of a quote. Size doesn't matter with a magic vest, belt, pair of gloves, or amulet. Those all resize. A greatsword, even if it's all you wear, is not a garment.
Tempest Stormwind 04-19-07, 12:26 AM	I may have been wrong. Big whoop, that doesn't change the fact that you could make a Fine or Diminutive staff, and thus the rest of the thread is still valid.
unfortunate_crow 04-19-07, 10:39 AM	So would a fine-sized staff be about the size of a toothpick? The player's design is such that the head of the arrow is a bolt which depresses upon impact, pushing rearwards and snapping the "fine" staff (which is mounted perpendicular to the arrow shaft) in half; creating a retributive strike on impact. (is RETSTRIKE affected by anti-magic fields?)
WHW4 04-19-07, 01:32 PM	If it were me, I'd make all of this alot simpler by making him get a bolt enchanted with the properties he's wanting. It would cost the same, he'd maybe even have to get the group to go with him on a quest to find a powerful enough mage to do the job. I say this because, as a DM, sometimes the easiest way to work with the rules is not to work with them at all. You can make anything happen. That's simply my opinion, but I really feel that it would be alot more simple.