Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ekaj 03-21-06, 07:11 PM	I was thinking of things to incorperate into a campaign. You know the things. Stuff that makes life Hell for the PCs. My latest screwball Idea- Airship Bombers. Eberron has airships, but not the Bombs. I was thinking of the classic torpedo shaped freefalling bombs dropped in mass numbers on to an unsuspecting vague target half a mile below. (Think WW2) What I'm looking for is a little help with creating these bad boys. They are probably not gonna be used against personel, there are more cost effective spells than that. They are not acurate, so a VERY, VERY wide Area of Effect is needed. I'm thinking 100 feet. Needs a concussion effect or something that will bypass Hardness or damage reduction of buildings. I've been told to just put a thousand pieces of paper with "Explosive runes" written on them into a wooden barrel with a bottle of alchemist fire. Not bad. That's alot of damage! In a 20ft radius. I need alot of damage in a wider area. Remember, inacuracy is the name of the game. Add height to that, and the odds of hitting within 20ft of your target just went out the window. Not to mention the time and cost of creating each and every barrel. If I need a custom spell, that's fine. Exept for the fact i'm no good at that. ANY and all help appreciated. :D
allenchan 03-21-06, 07:36 PM	Honestly, I'd still with just barrels of alchemist's fire. A lot simpler, a bit more realistic. Firebombings like to tokyo and whatnot. Indeed, most towns would be made out of wood.
CryoSilver 03-21-06, 07:36 PM	Ok. Let's start with a base effect: you want a big spread of fire and sonic damage. If all you need to do is kill civilians and damage buildings, 3d6 is enough damage; 1d6 fire, 2d6 sonic; sonic ignores hardness, so it will damage stone buildings with ease. Let's call that the equal to a Fireball at caster level 5 (sonic is better than fire, so it balances). As a one shot item, this will cost: 5*3*50 (using potion pricing guidelines for a one-use spell) = 750 gp. Next: area. A 20 foot spread (like fireball) affects 400*pi ft^2, or about 1250 ft^2. You want a 100 foot spread, so that's 10000*pi, or 31,416 ft^2; 25 times bigger than the original burst, and 5 times as wide (because circle areas increase exponentially). There are a few things you can do to get that: judicous use of widen (which will become very expensive very fast), or multiple bombs. A 100 foot spread should look like the large circle, whereas multiple bombs will be the smaller red circles: http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/cryosilver/bombarray.jpg There are 25 bombs if you use smaller ones, at a total cost of 18,750 gp. Alternately, there is Sunburst, which will deal 6d6 damage to everything within an 80 foot burst. It is 15*8*50 = 6000 gp.
Alcalientre 03-21-06, 07:39 PM	Well, the best idea that I can come up with is just a single use-use activated magic item. Basically you could just have a bunch of rocks enchanted to detonate on impact with caster lvl, lets say 3 to make it cheaper, fireballs, and drop em out the bottom. They would spread out as they fell. Each one (there may be some precedent for this, I just went by the chart) would cost 450 gp to buy. A little expensive if you want a lot of them, but if it's some rich organization coming after them, like the government... So 3d6 damage in a 20 ft radius sphere, not bad. If you drop like a hundred in as small an area as possible, Several of them are probably going to be hitting the PC's. These would also completely destroy any wooden buildings or towns. Anyway, that's my idea... Edit - Nice job posting something much better and more detailed than mine while I wasn't looking, CryoSilver.... :(
CryoSilver 03-21-06, 07:45 PM	No problem, dude. Also consider an Earthquake bomb, at the same cost and area of effect as the Sunburst bomb, but much more dangerous in a city.
mvincent 03-21-06, 08:31 PM	Note that explosive runes don't detonate if dropped, burned etc., so these likely wouldn't work (except see below). Fire seeds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fireSeeds.htm) might work but don't seem quite what you are looking for. A Symbol of Sleep (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/symbolofSleep.htm) or Symbol of Death (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/symbolofDeath.htm) each have a huge radius and can activate if dropped, but they might be too expensive. Still, a widened symbol of sleep covers quite a large area The shrink item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shrinkItem.htm) spell could be used to drop all sorts of items. Huge vats of alchemist fire (possibly made via the fabricate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fabricate.htm) spell) could be good items to shrink down. A more common method might be to drop spell glyphs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glyphofWarding.htm) containing the fireball spell. Alternately, an area dispel magic glyph might be used to detonate a scattered payload of explosive runes. A Greater Glyph of Warding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glyphofWardingGreater.htm) might possibly contain a widened fireball, or a whole host of other devastating spells. Another (questionable) method might be to wrap beads from delayed blast fireballs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/delayedBlastFireball.htm) in Quintessence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/quintessence.htm)
CryoSilver 03-21-06, 08:37 PM	The issue with mvincent's methods is that they all affect small areas. How about a bundle of oil flasks with an attached pyrotechnics spell effect? Still the small area problem, but if you have lots, they cost less than alchemist's fire.
mvincent 03-21-06, 09:07 PM	The issue with mvincent's methods is that they all affect small areas.Well, the OP was asking for something that covers a 100' area. The widened fireballs (stored in greater glyphs) have a 40' radius, which equals a 80' wide circle. Not too far off. The widened symbol of sleep (or maybe fear) is however a 240' wide circle.
Jaid 03-21-06, 10:37 PM	for the record, contrary to an earlier post, sonic damage does not ignore hardness. it simply is not reduced to 1/2 or 1/4 damage like certain other kinds of energy damage against objects. my personal recommendation would be a control winds effect, targetted to increase winds as much as possible. at a 40 foot/level radius and a minimum CL of 9, and an effect that "drives most flying creatures from the skies, uproots small trees, knocks down light wooden structures, tears off roofs, and endangers ships." i'd say you've got a decent bomb... needs at least CL 12 to get that guaranteed though (that assumes 0 wind as start). with CL 15 you're guaranteed hurrican force. with CL 18 you're guaranteed tornado force =) so, my suggestion: CL 18 control wind effect, single use, use activated: SL*CL*50= 4500 gold per 'bomb' if i'm not mistaken. of course, you could go a lot cheaper too... but this way, each bomb is hitting a 720 foot radius (try missing with that!) and lasts for 3 hours... so you get a lot of mileage out of that one bomb =)
Alchahest 03-22-06, 02:25 PM	cost shouldn't be as much an issue as it's made out to be. bombs and missiles in conventional modern warfare are very expensive, it's just that governments are funding it, rather than adventurers.
zlatko 03-22-06, 03:13 PM	As for cheapness, artificiers can infuse objects with 3d6 (lvl 3 caster) fireballs. Oil of impact in large quantities is a good option. Although, flavour wise, the best option is-gunpowder. I realize your setting may not have it, but there is a similar thing. Oghma bestowed on his priests the knowlege of making something similar to gunpowder. But it's much more unpredictable and unstable.
ekaj 03-22-06, 03:28 PM	This is already fun... But I should have specified not to be specific with the cost. Do you really think a tomahawk missle cost a million bucks? Were talking about a government that pays 100 bucks a hammer. I need a general cost (say, 1K a bomb) because the PCs will not be able to buy one. Except off the Black Market, but thats a special occasion. I'm looking at Sunburst and Earthquake right now. And Cryosilver's spread idea is also promising. For one reason. I'm talking about a Metropolis. No one Bombs villages and hamlets. I can spend 8K to put flaming on a catapult or something. (Another evil idea I just had...) The Majority of buildings I want to burn (Palaces, Barraks, Castles, ect.)are made of stone. Which does not burn that well. and in a Large city+ the foundations of most buildings are sitting on stone, or the city's themselves are walled. Keep the Idea's coming if possible, I'm already thinking up ways to drop a payload... ;)
Jshock_75 03-22-06, 04:25 PM	If you wanted to go really cheap, do what they did in WW1- drop a big bucket of darts on your enemy from a high altitude. I'd imagine everyone in an area would have to make a Reflex save or be hit by 1dx darts, something like that.
The WarOverlord 03-22-06, 05:47 PM	cost shouldn't be as much an issue as it's made out to be. bombs and missiles in conventional modern warfare are very expensive, it's just that governments are funding it, rather than adventurers. But you have to remember that the contracts are expensive, not the actual components and parts. Remember that a contracted ash tray could be as much as $500 when one could be bought at Wal-mart for $1.50 and lets not forget those $5000 toilet seats when they start at $7.50 at Wally World. Basic Black Powder bombs would be made of Black Powder (Sulpfuric ash,Charcoal, and Salt Peter....with the ash found by Volcanos, the Charcoal made from burning wood, and the Salt peter by mixing feces,wood ash,urine, and straw in a bio heap then harvested as it forms) a container, Barrels are fine and weights large enough to agitate the black powder on impact....basically a "marble bomb" Since everything for black podwer can be found or made (even just by taking a #2) the only factor is time as the Manafacture of Salt Peter could take up to a year for the quantaties needed for a carpet bombing.
Lokiyn 03-23-06, 01:46 AM	Prehaps it would be simpler to replace the bomb idea with a more entertaining carrier concept. An ornithopter is 4k ish gp and can be mounted on any ship easily. Furthermore it is just larg enough that one could mount a spell turret on it, such that as the ornithopter makes its run each round its launching explosive spells For example a load out of fireball, Lightning bolt, Searing Light, and Summon monster three would work nicely. Plus who doesn't love kamakazi Kobold pilots.
PossiblyInsane 03-23-06, 02:01 AM	how about instead of vats of things, lots of barrels of them. I.E. Each "Bomb" would instead be 50 vials of alchemists fire in a big net, or 100 vials of acid 1k each set if it were like a pachinko (sp) machine, approx 10 would land in the center of a radius, and 1 at the edge, depending on what altitude the net opens etc or if your really feeling evil, drop a couple hundred tanglefoot bags before dropping the acid/fire etc. 5k a hundred drop some 33 thunderstones and get the stone damageing effect. 1k or if trying to kill a city of undead, unleash some 100 gallons (assuming ten flasks of holy water in gallon) costs about 2.5 k Mmm undead killing rain... a variety of other options could exist. glass globes with gallons of acid inside... mmm...
The WarOverlord 03-23-06, 06:58 AM	Likewise, why even mess around with Gun Powder Kegs when filling the Kegs 1/3 of the way with flour and placing a few layers of metal caltrops and the agitating the barrels then gently placing flint stones in the barrel just before gently dropping the Barrels. Anyone that has witness a Grain tower explosion knows that any kind of grain dust Can be a explosive.
ChibiQueso 03-23-06, 10:27 AM	Doesn't the grain tower explosion happen because the flame ignite all the grain dust that saturates the air? Not explosive, just burns extrememly fast. I would't think you could supersaturate open air that well... Though, dropping a barrel of caltrops isn't anything to sneeze at.
Rulebook 03-23-06, 10:36 AM	actually it happens because the grain dust like compresses or does something to the air that makes it all expand at once, making a big explosion. it also dosent work with just any bit of flour, you need A LOT in a large confined area. i say find some way of making a fuel-air bomb to just outright flatten sections of cities! okay okay, i like the idea of a "Craft Spellbomb" feat which would be like wonderous items, but bigger, more powerful, single use, and more expensive (but more bang!) a few Widened Cloudkills could wreak havok on a city, as can a bunch of Summon Swarm cluster bombs...
OravennasBrother 03-23-06, 11:27 AM	Try dropping rocks. Standard 1 lb rocks can deal terminal velocity damage (20d6 if they fall from 1400') to anything they hit. A ton of Rocks will strike ~ 2000 points/objects, and spread as they fall, coverring a fair area. Finally rocks are cheap making them perfect for expendable munitions.
KublaiKhan 03-23-06, 11:33 AM	Ooh. A challenge for the DM to come up with a way to wreak havoc. Allllllrighty. Let's do this reasonably mundanely, and as cheap as possible--because I don't like expensive bids. Assuming you're the DM, or assuming the DM lets you get away with this, you could go with the FAE [ Fuel-Air Explosive ] route: A barrel of oil, expelled by a compressed-air mechanism [ say, a shrunk empty flask, which expland on impact with the ground ] to disperse the fuel throughout the area, and an ignitor [ say, a bunch of flint rocks on the outside of the shrunk flask ] to spark an explosion. Retrofit a small catapult with a barrel attached to the throwing arm. Construct a large number of javelins/spears with the spearhead replaced [ or sunk into ] a flask of alchemist's fire. You could get a cone-shaped spread, if you engineered it right--or, you could just drop the spears over an area. Water can be used to great effect, as well--build an airship like one of those forest-fighting airplanes. Scoop a bunch of water out of the ocean, or the nearest lake, and dump it all at once. You may not get the greatest AoE, but all that water is going to remove people's roofs, and will likely cause some property damage. For more expensive options, there's always the good ol' fantasy standby--contract with a red dragon. This *is* Dungeons and *Dragons*, you recall. ^^; Or you could find a fire elemental, maybe. Transmute Rock to Mud, cast on the foundations of buildings, will cause extensive problems. I think, though, that one of the most effective methods would be to figure out how to cast an attack spell [ say, orb of acid, or fireball, or something nastier ] on a delivery system [ say, a dart ] and make a bunch of 'em. Then, raise your altitude to such a point where you'll get a fairly even spread over the area of effect that you want....and drop a few hundred. I don't think a circular AoE would be ideal, though. Watch some footage of how WWII bombing runs worked--it was more a line, with some smaller circular AoE's along that line. Now, if you want a missile...*evil, evil grin* That's easy. Lemuel's Phoenix [ Bear with me; I'm at work, and have none of my books with me ] Lemuel's Phoenix is a 6' long metallic cylinder, styled after a phoenix stooped in a dive. It contains a hollow chamber, treated with alchemical preparations, that can be filled with any alchemical substance that one cares to name [ up to 20 gallons ]. Alternatively, it can fit five staves, ten wands, or ten scrolls. After it has been filled, the device may be pointed towards any target within the line of sight. When activated, it will fly straight at the target designated, detonating when it hits an object head-on, or when it reaches the designated point. Upon detonation, it will disperse an alchemical load in a radius of 5'/gallon, or activate all charges in a wand or stave [ in a random direction ], or activate any scrolls [ again, in a random direction ]. Detonation destroys Lemuel's Phoenix utterly. Faint evocation, moderate transmutation, faint divination. CL [ whatever it takes to cast the highest level spell here ]. Craft Wonderous Item, Fly, Read Magic, Fireball, True Strike. Price: [ Don't have my books, so I can't calculate this ].
Iver Gearsham 03-23-06, 08:55 PM	Big Spooshy Dispell Magic one shot, Use Activated item Cost 750 gp. Make a round Stone Jug 10 ft. in diameter (Stone Shape or Fabricate or just make it from clay normally) Weight 1,000 lbs. Place Dispell Magic rock in middle of jug. Fill jug with 10,000 Cloth Form Pools of Water made with Shrink Item Minimum cast lvl 10 cubic ft. of water per cloth. Dropped from a height of 210 ft. the weapon does 25d6 damage on impact and releases a minimum of 100,000 cubic ft. of water inside a building or on target location. Flaming Spooshy same but with Pools of boiling oil that is on fire :evillaugh add cost of oil or find a natural crud oil spring
Vanigo 03-23-06, 09:43 PM	Now, if you want a missile...*evil, evil grin* That's easy. Lemuel's Phoenix [ Bear with me; I'm at work, and have none of my books with me ] Lemuel's Phoenix is a 6' long metallic cylinder, styled after a phoenix stooped in a dive. It contains a hollow chamber, treated with alchemical preparations, that can be filled with any alchemical substance that one cares to name [ up to 20 gallons ]. Alternatively, it can fit five staves, ten wands, or ten scrolls. After it has been filled, the device may be pointed towards any target within the line of sight. When activated, it will fly straight at the target designated, detonating when it hits an object head-on, or when it reaches the designated point. Upon detonation, it will disperse an alchemical load in a radius of 5'/gallon, or activate all charges in a wand or stave [ in a random direction ], or activate any scrolls [ again, in a random direction ]. Detonation destroys Lemuel's Phoenix utterly. Faint evocation, moderate transmutation, faint divination. CL [ whatever it takes to cast the highest level spell here ]. Craft Wonderous Item, Fly, Read Magic, Fireball, True Strike. Price: [ Don't have my books, so I can't calculate this ].Putting a wand or staff in that thing is just too nasty. Alchemicals and scrolls look fine, though. No idea what the price would be. Don't bother with the guidelines; they're not designed for anything like this. Anyway, here's what I'd do: fragile barrels of oil with a couple flasks of alchemist's fire strapped on the sides. You drop them, the alchemist's fire ignites, the oil goes everywhere, and the alchemist's fire ignites the oil. Cheap and destructive. If you want to go with magic, I'd look at blistering radiance (Spell Compendium, page 33). It's a fifth level spell, 50-foot radius, 2d6 fire damage a round for one round/level. Won't do much to anything with hardness, but it's pretty good for antipersonell use. Probably even better is the fourth level vortex of teeth (SpC 232), which does 3d8 force damage a round in a 40' radius cylinder (minus a 5' radius safe zone in the center). Fireburst (SpC 93) makes a nice cluster bomb. Also, check out summon elementite swarm (Planar Handbook, page 105). Also, if you're clever, a proximity-fused cone spell fired straight down can hit a really big circle on the ground. A cone of cold, for instance, will hit an 40' radius circle if you trigger it 40 feet above the ground.
Feor 03-23-06, 10:02 PM	If cost is a non-issue, might I suggest Spiralburst Bottles from the Book of Vile Darkness. When they shatter they create a 1/2" wide portal to the Ethereal Plane. Everything in the square they hit has to make a DC30 Fort save or get pulled in. (messily, a person does not fit nicely through a 1/2" wide hole) cost is 19,000gp each, and dropping 50 of them (at 950,000gp) on an enemy formation or into the enemy palace is sure to cause some unpleasentness.
lvl10penguin 03-23-06, 10:21 PM	step 1: summon natures ally/monster: as many earth elementals as possible, even small ones will work just fine step 2: bump the elementals off the airship step 3: giggle
mrurbanitesmiley 03-23-06, 10:38 PM	Get a really big rock, or even better, a collossal sword (so you know how much damage it does.). Enchant it with +1, and returning. Large initial investment, no recurring costs, and you can attack an unlimited number of times. Rule that it's impossible to make an attack from that height, so instead you just randomly determine a landing spot, and then require ref. saves to get out of the way. Cruel, but useful.
Lokiyn 03-23-06, 11:00 PM	You need this in a bottle Reality Maelstrom (Sp):At 9th level, a Planar Vanguard gains the ability to force a hole in reality itself that sucks all material and most nearby creatures into it, sending them to a random plane (see Table 1-1: Random Planar Destinations). Everything sucked into this reality maelstrom goes to the same place. The maximum range of this ability is 100 ft. + 10 ft. per Planar Vanguard level. The maelstrom lasts for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 her manifester level. This ability may be used up to 3 times per day. This ability has a primary and a secondary area. The primary area is the hole itself: a sphere of no less than 5 feet and no greater than a 5-foot radius per Planar Vanguard level. Within that area, all unattended objects weighing 100 pounds or less are sucked into the reality maelstrom, as are all individuals who fail a Will saving throw (DC 17 + Dexterity modifier). The secondary area is a windstorm of air rushing into the tear. All unattended objects weighing 50 pounds or less within an area twice the radius of the primary effect are drawn into the primary area of the reality maelstrom. Individuals in the secondary area must make a Reflex saving throw (DC 17 + Dexterity modifier). Those who fail are sucked into the primary area and must make a Will saving throw to avoid being drawn into the maelstrom. Individuals who make either saving throw can move and attack as normal but must make additional saving throws every round they remain within the primary or secondary areas. A reality maelstrom is a one-way portal, so nothing ever emerges from the hole created by this ability.
PossiblyInsane 03-24-06, 12:53 AM	This ability has a primary and a secondary area. The primary area is the hole itself: a sphere of no less than 5 feet and no greater than a 5-foot radius per Planar Vanguard level. Within that area, all unattended objects weighing 100 pounds or less are sucked into the reality maelstrom, as are all individuals who fail a Will saving throw (DC 17 + Dexterity modifier). thank god i weigh 180
Lokiyn 03-24-06, 01:05 AM	Too bad the weight limit is only for unattended objects :D
camble 03-24-06, 02:42 AM	I am currently dming a game with the gith attack scenerio. The Gith in my game are using arrow slits along the sides of the ship and 5th level wands of fireball to create havoc in the city. with even 4 of them along with regular archers that can be a nasty payload. I have gotten good use of Flame arrow as well. Take ten archers that is 3-5 rds of burning goodness. It is a good tactic for starting fires all over the city that defenders (IE the PC's) need to contend with. You could drop barrels of oil from the skies and then use the flame arrows to do something like you are looking for.
psionichamster 03-24-06, 04:18 PM	for incendiary bombs, use the Dragonsbreath arrows from Races of the Wild. drops damage by one size category and does 1 point of fire, and lights you on fire. (reflex negates) now, add as many barrels of these (cheap, too) as you'd like, hell, get an artificer and churn them out as you want, or a Cannith-marked individual. drop as needed, watch city/forest/ship/whateverelseyouwanttoburn go up in joyous flames i like the Spooshy, and can suggest something similar Big Melty. as splooshy (see above), but filled w/ acid. stonebreaker acid (Comp. Adventurer, i believe...like 2d10 damage/rd to stone...or something like that). that'll chew through your city pretty well. combine the above artificer, or wizard who can Fabricate, and you can bring 1/3 the weight UP (tripling your combat load) and can get even tricksier if you shrink item the ammo you carry up. you need a drag-specific shape, relative low altitude release, and LOTS of small dispersal units. think bomblets from a cluster bomb, except they MELT the stone buildings around you. large numbers of thunderstones, especially when applied underground or somewhere else echoic, can prove devastatingly effective and cheap. of course, there's always Storm of Vengeance Conjuration (Summoning) Level: Drd 9, Clr 9 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 round Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) Effect: 360-ft.-radius storm cloud Duration: Concentration (maximum 10 rounds) (D) Saving Throw: See text Spell Resistance: Yes This spell creates an enormous black storm cloud. Lightning and crashing claps of thunder appear within the storm. Each creature beneath the cloud must succeed on a Fortitude save or be deafened for 1d4×10 minutes. If you do not maintain concentration on the spell after casting it, the spell ends. If you continue to concentrate, the spell generates additional effects in each following round, as noted below. Each effect occurs during your turn. 2nd Round Acid rains down in the area, dealing 1d6 points of acid damage (no save). 3rd Round You call six bolts of lightning down from the cloud. You decide where the bolts strike. No two bolts may be directed at the same target. Each bolt deals 10d6 points of electricity damage. A creature struck can attempt a Reflex save for half damage. 4th Round Hailstones rain down in the area, dealing 5d6 points of bludgeoning damage (no save). 5th through 10th Rounds Violent rain and wind gusts reduce visibility. The rain obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target). Speed is reduced by three-quarters. Ranged attacks within the area of the storm are impossible. Spells cast within the area are disrupted unless the caster succeeds on a Concentration check against a DC equal to the storm of vengeance’s save DC + the level of the spell the caster is trying to cast. nuf said namaste' the hamster
CryoSilver 03-24-06, 05:08 PM	Or if you use the BoVD, Apocalypse from the Sky
ChibiQueso 03-24-06, 05:55 PM	Or if you use the BoVD, Apocalypse from the Sky How could I have forgotten apocalypse from the sky... Goodbye metropolis :evillaugh
Lokiyn 03-24-06, 06:20 PM	That only shines in Eberron. you need an artifact to power it. Convenintly according to the Magic Of Eberron the Living breastplate is considered and artifact level item. Its also alive and a valid target for simulacrum :evillaugh
Lyinginbedmon 03-24-06, 07:19 PM	Since I'm almost certain many of you are better chemists than me, you can forget the oil and use this mnemonic: Call Howard next orbiculate The result should make an effective material for this purpose :D I'm finding this thread very interesting, I just have to restrain myself from giving it to my pyromaniac players...
camble 03-25-06, 11:27 AM	You could use biological warfare of sorts by droping oozes on them. Use teletinesis to lower a barrel or even levitation to place the buggers at street level and watch the fireworks. Dropping them in the barrels might work but it would probably damage the ooze.
Bandit_Raist 03-25-06, 02:57 PM	I think that the Sunburst and Earthquake bombs sound the best. Although I always thought an intresting weapon would be to some how open a rift to the Elemental Plane of Fire and let fire elementals magmim and what ever other nasty fire based outsiders you can think of do all the burning.
ReverendCow 03-25-06, 06:19 PM	You all are evil, devious people. I congratulate you. I'm going to get some ballista bolts and find a Cleric with the Earth Domain to "charge 'em up" with Earthquake, then go wreak havoc on the countryside from my skiff. All I have to do is drop 'em out the door.
ReverendCow 03-26-06, 01:14 AM	How would you figure out where a "bomb" would drop, assuming that once released, it free-falls to impact? Say you're heading strait at your target, on a trajectory that will take you X feet precisely above your target. What factors must you account for to hit your target dead on, if that's what your attempting? How much easier would it be to "carpet-bomb" them, mechanically speaking? Obviously, you'd have to account for wind, your crafts' speed, Attack Bonus (?), number of bombs, the size of the target, the targets speed of movement, whether or not the target is aware of your attack and attempting to avoid it (if mobile,) and.........? What do you all think?
Lyinginbedmon 03-26-06, 04:02 AM	I think a good rule of thumb is that it will drop directly downward given that the ship is stationary. If it is moving, it will still drop downwards, but will continue going forward from the speed of the ship. It would maintain the same velocity, but would gradually lose momentum in the air. Maybe, every round it decreases speed by 10 ft., as it drops by the same amount if memory serves
Vanigo 03-26-06, 03:10 PM	I think a good rule of thumb is that it will drop directly downward given that the ship is stationary. If it is moving, it will still drop downwards, but will continue going forward from the speed of the ship. It would maintain the same velocity, but would gradually lose momentum in the air. Maybe, every round it decreases speed by 10 ft., as it drops by the same amount if memory servesIt depends so heavily on the shape and density of the object in question that any flat rule you make will be hopelessly wrong.
ChibiQueso 03-26-06, 05:57 PM	Just use the rules for attacking an area and use the grenadelike weapon deviations. Trying to mix physics and D&D is like mixing baking soda and vinegar, something will blow up.
Poh_Tah_Toe 03-26-06, 08:11 PM	I think it'd be fun to drop a ton of explosive-runed papers (from a low height so they don't end up too far away), and citizens would pick them up and read them. Except they'd probably all float in the same direction, and only cover a small area.
CryoSilver 03-26-06, 08:40 PM	If you're feeling particularly mean, use Fabricate to distill potassium from any nearby mountains, sprinkle it over the city and cast Control Weather (rain). "Oh look George, it's raining; perhaps it will wash away this odd dust they dropped on the city earli.... Oh Pelor; why does it BURN!?"
ChibiQueso 03-26-06, 11:46 PM	If you're feeling particularly mean, use Fabricate to distill potassium from any nearby mountains, sprinkle it over the city and cast Control Weather (rain). "Oh look George, it's raining; perhaps it will wash away this odd dust they dropped on the city earli.... Oh Pelor; why does it BURN!?" That brings a tear of joy to my ear as that scene plays out in my mind.
ReverendCow 03-27-06, 03:25 AM	Cryo> That idea is demented, disturbing, horrible, sadistic, as well as completely, utterly, and horribly COOL. :bow: I applaude you. :clap:
ekaj 03-27-06, 10:59 AM	Mmmm... potassium... Anywho, when using oil, try not to get too complicated with the delivery system. Wrap cheese cloth soaked in oil around it, light it moments before dropping. ANYTHING soaked in an oil will NOT burn, until the oil is gone. Kerosene lanterns are an exelent example if you've ever wondered why the wicks don't burn. This goes out the window when it hits something solid, because oil is shot everywhere. Boom. :D And as for trajectory, that's why I recommend the classic torpedo shape with tail fins. They tend to lose formard momentum and go strait down alot faster and are easier to judge where they are gonna land.
snowstrider 03-27-06, 11:10 AM	Just make a new alchemical item called a "Daisy cutter" that destroys everything within a certain radius. No one should survive a bomb impact, so that makes it a plot device, saving you a ton of time and effort.
ekaj 03-27-06, 11:16 AM	It might also be best to not allow anysort of saving throw, but I can see certain players now... ----------------------------------------------------- DM: You failed, he escaped to his airship. Rogue: Oh well, you guys are screwed! Fighter: Why us? You Too! Rogue: Nope! I have evasion! DM: Uh.. says here in the description, no saves allowed. So.. no evasion.
KublaiKhan 03-27-06, 12:41 PM	"Carpet Bombing" with the usual AoE spread rules in place is probably about as sophisticated as you're going to get....at least, until someone comes up with the Norden Bombsight, or something similar. The Norden Bombsight was the beginning of what made precision bombing possible. It consisted of a gyro-stabilized telescope mounted on a stabilizer platform [ to isolate it from the airplane's vibrations ]. It also had a little computer doohickey inside that took the airplane's speed and factored that into where the bomb would end up when dropped. The operator of the Norden Bombsight, by the way, had control of the aircraft during the actual bombing. They had to, in order to make the proper adjustments to ensure delivery on target. ....it's nice to know WWII veterans. ^^; Now, if you want to get into precision bombing, and/or bombing while the airship is in motion, you could quick-and-dirty estimate that the bombs will travel forward the airship's full speed the first round; half speed the second round; 1/4 speed the third round, and then straight down thereafter. Completely wrong, of course, but would be a useful approximation. Consult the falling tables for how many rounds it would take for the thing to hit. If you wanted a Norden Bombsight, then I submit the following: Norden's Wonderous Bombsight This device, when mounted on airships, allows any user to select precisely the spot at which a bomb will hit. The operator of the bombsight must make a DC 10 Profession: Pilot check in order to keep the airship at a proper attitude to make a delivery. On successfully spotting a target [ spot check, variable DC according to target ], the bombardier must align the bombsight with the target, and make a successful ranged attack roll to hit. Norden's Wonderous Bombsight counts as an exotic ranged weapon for the purposes of proficiency. A successful hit vs. AC [ 5 + 5 for each 50' of altitude ] would hit the square aimed at. Unsuccessful hits would spread as per a normal grenadelike weapon, but at a 20' radius. Without using the bombsight, the spread rules are made with a radius of 1/2 the airship's altitude. The bombsight is inoperable below 50' AGL [ Above Ground Level. ]. Norden's Wonderous Bombsight: Radiates faint divination and moderate transmutation. Craft Wonderous Item; True Strike, Locate Object, telekinesis [ telekinesis required to allow the operator to pilot the airship during the bombing run, and release the bombs. This implementation would telekinetically move the normal controls. ] Weight: 50 lbs. Must be mounted in the nose of the airship, at the bottom.
psionichamster 03-27-06, 05:34 PM	Cost for the bombsight? and could it be mounted/unmounted from airships... my shifter ranger/reachrunner has plenty of spot, and i just leveled. if i can convince the DM to let me get one of these, i can put all my SP into profession pilot, get on board an elemental-bound airship, and start bombing stuff. already got the cannith-marked artificer, get him a skyforge, and he can churn out all kinds of goodness, launched right over the lip. i present: Zombie Bombs. with the corpsecrafter feat: Destruction Retribution, all undead you craft that get destroyed blow up in a blast of negative energy. it's based on HD, so you pick up some horses, cows, other animal and lift em up, drop them, they go boom. the ones that survive are immediately healed by the negative energy burst, and start clawing at the city/towns-folk. with enough gold, scrolls of fabricate, and/or the Cannith mark of making, you can churn out enough [insert favorite of the bombs above] as needed, with only raw materials brought up. here's another fun idea: giant animal/ giant vermin spells. let loose some bombadier beetles, they fly in, you giant them somehow, they start tearing down the city. namaste' the hamster
CryoSilver 03-27-06, 06:16 PM	Cryo> That idea is demented, disturbing, horrible, sadistic, as well as completely, utterly, and horribly COOL. :bow: I applaude you. :clap: I do what I can.
KublaiKhan 03-27-06, 06:19 PM	I don't see why it couldn't be transferred from airship to airship. CL and price aren't there 'cuz I don't have my books with me, as I'm at work right now. Just look up the wonderous item cost in the DMG; it's got tables and equations to work with. Though better undead to bomb with would be mice, as skeletons. Destruction Retribution is a flat-rate, rather than by HD, and you can pack a lot more mouse skeletons in a crate than you can zombcows. Actually....put 'em in a crate, and throw fins on the back, and you've got a perfect negabomb to drop on a city. As it's negative energy, it takes out living things, but leaves the city more or less intact....it's the D&D equivalent of a neutron bomb!
ReverendCow 03-27-06, 07:25 PM	I don't see why it couldn't be transferred from airship to airship. CL and price aren't there 'cuz I don't have my books with me, as I'm at work right now. Just look up the wonderous item cost in the DMG; it's got tables and equations to work with. Shouldn't be that hard to make it modular. To install it in an airship, you'd have to cut a, presumably, square-ish hole in the bottom of the "bomb-bay." You take the bits that you cut out, and reattach them with hinges. This would also be useful for docking in places where you don't want people to figure out that it was you who just dropped wicked death on a large chunk of the country-side. Personally, I think this is a killer idea. The next thing I want to see, is a turret mounted on the bottom of an airship. Kind of like the gun-turret-bubbles they had on planes during WW2. Put your spell-caster/manifester in there and buzz the target area with Disintigrate beams. Here's the question, if you're trying to hit a person, and miss, wouldn't the beam keep going till it hit something, up to the maximum distance of the spell/power? Edit: Oh, yeah. With the Nordens' Bombsight listed above, do you think it would be possible to rig it up AS the ships controls, or at least, a portion of the ships controls and just let the pilot initiate the bombing run? Just add Arcane Eye to the list of requirements and slap an eye on the bottom of the ship to see out of. This would save on having to chop another hole in the bottom of your ship.
CryoSilver 03-27-06, 07:48 PM	You know what would be far far cooler than Disintegrate beams? Thousands and thousands of unguided magic missiles that can damage in animate objects.
ReverendCow 03-27-06, 07:53 PM	You know what would be far far cooler than Disintegrate beams? Thousands and thousands of unguided magic missiles that can damage in animate objects. True, but if you go around smacking the support beams out from under buildings, then that would, reasonably, cause the buildings to collapse. I still like the idea of ballista bolts enchanted with Earthquake. Three our four of those would level a pretty good sized town, wouldn't you say?
CryoSilver 03-27-06, 08:05 PM	I don't know; ever been to a recreated Medieval village? They're pretty spread out. What you need to create is a chain effect; destruction leading to destruction; like shooting a gas line with a pellet gun, ya know? That's where my potassium idea came from; a few castings and you can coat the whole village/city, and then Control Weather affects several square miles. Now ask yourself; where is your target? A shore town or port? Don't waste your ballista bolt on the town to level a block; hit a fault line out in the ocean, then watch the tidal wave sweep away the whole town and dozens of miles around. Near a volcano? Set it off. Near a fault line? Trigger a real earthquake. In the mountains? Trigger huge avalanches. In the forest? Repeated castings of Control Weather to keep it dry then light it on fire. On the plain? Dust storms are great, and again, impose drought via Control Weather. In the jungle? Plague. Even better than the exploding mouse idea is this, mostly as a terror tactic: Over the course of several months, capture many towns folk from all over the city and kill them. Raise them as undead, but preserve them as best as possible. Make them all explodey. Then, just before your unleash your real attack, send them back, disguised, as "refugees;" this invokes both sympathy and excuses the smell. They'll be let in and disperse, but never more than a few feet from the nearest. Do this with a few hundred or even thousand, then drop a single fireball into the city gate. The first undea explode, killing the next undead, who explode, killing the next undead, who explode...
ReverendCow 03-27-06, 08:12 PM	Cryo> Your evilness never ceases to amaze me. Would there be any way to widen the AoE of Earthquake? I checked "Widen Spell," but that cranks up a widened spell by three spell levels. At minimum, Earthquake is a 7th level spell. So, is there any other way? What other ways would you be able to bring death and destruction to the biggest possible area? I've been looking at Fire Storm as well. At 13th caster level (Fire Domain level 7 spell,) you're looking at twenty six-10' squares, with 13d6 damage to everything in area. At 15th caster level (Clr 8 spell,) you've got thirty-10' squares with 15d6 damage. Would that have the potential to set buildings on fire?
CryoSilver 03-27-06, 08:22 PM	Divine metamagic. Rod of Widen. Sudden Widen. Now, do you have a lot of spare time on your hands? Use Wall of Stone to cover the town. The entire town, forming a dome over the top. Let them suffocate or starve. Oh; new idea. Research a chain/lycanthropy-like Animal Growth. Cast on rat, release.... Soon the town is swarming with giant rats, cats, dogs, mice, pigeons, livestock, etc. Another idea: Stone Shape. You don't need to shape it much, just enough to weaken key points under every building; you can take weeks to do it if need be; you aren't destroying anything, and unless people are really looking,they can't event ell what you've done. Then, one Earthquake bolt, collapsing a building, the tremors then knocking down the next, knocking down the next.... Chain effects are the key. Massive destruction, suddenly, swiftly and effectively. Yet another idea, similar to the wall of stone idea. Get a bunch of eversmoking bottles, and get them high up in the air; really high. Open them all, and get them stuck there (levitating or whatever). Leave them there. It will have an effect similar to the dust cloud that killed the dinosaurs; temperatures will drop, crops will die, people will starve, and the object of their torment far out of reach of a 100+10ft Dispel Magic....
ReverendCow 03-27-06, 08:36 PM	Wow. Just, wow. :shocked: :evillaugh I edited my previous post, because I didn't think anyone would post again, so quickly. How about some summoning spells that summon creatures that spread disease. The disease they spread, of course, will have to spread easily to people who didn't come into contact with the summoned creature. CHAOS BEASTS!!!!111eleven From the SRD: Corporeal Instability (Su): A blow from a chaos beast against a living creature can cause a terrible transformation. The creature must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or become a spongy, amorphous mass. Unless the victim manages to control the effect (see below), its shape melts, flows, writhes, and boils. The save DC is Constitution-based. An affected creature is unable to hold or use any item. Clothing, armor, rings, and helmets become useless. Large items worn or carried-armor, backpacks, even shirts-hamper more than help, reducing the victim’s Dexterity score by 4. Soft or misshapen feet and legs reduce speed to 10 feet or one-quarter normal, whichever is less. Searing pain courses along the nerves, so strong that the victim cannot act coherently. The victim cannot cast spells or use magic items, and it attacks blindly, unable to distinguish friend from foe (-4 penalty on attack rolls and a 50% miss chance, regardless of the attack roll). Each round the victim spends in an amorphous state causes 1 point of Wisdom drain from mental shock. If the victim’s Wisdom score falls to 0, it becomes a chaos beast. A victim can regain its own shape by taking a standard action to attempt a DC 15 Charisma check (this check DC does not vary for a chaos beast with different Hit Dice or ability scores). A success reestablishes the creature’s normal form for 1 minute. On a failure, the victim can still repeat this check each round until successful. Corporeal instability is not a disease or a curse and so is hard to remove. A shapechange or stoneskin spell does not cure an afflicted creature but fixes its form for the duration of the spell. A restoration, heal, or greater restoration spell removes the affliction (a separate restoration is necessary to restore any drained points of Wisdom). Have a ballista bolt enchanted with a spell that would summon a Chaos Beast. But, have it enchanted so that it doesn't actually summon the Chaos Beast until someone touches or attempts to move the bolt. :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh Ghouls, Ghasts, and Hellwasp Swarms would be cool, too.
mvincent 03-27-06, 08:37 PM	As long as we're having fun: Balor bombs- drop wounded, unconscious mice that have been transformed into Balor demons via the Polymorph Any Object spell. Death Throes (Ex) When killed, a balor explodes in a blinding flash of light that deals 100 points of damage to anything within 100 feet (Reflex DC 30 half). Or hold a rave party for Vrocks. Dance of Ruin (Su) To use this ability, a group of at least three vrocks must join hands in a circle, dancing wildly and chanting. At the end of 3 rounds of dancing, a wave of crackling energy flashes outward in a 100-foot radius. All creatures except for demons within the radius take 20d6 points of damage (Reflex DC 18 half).If they need to be dropped from flying vehicles, then perhaps they can use rings of feather falling to perform formation skydiving (HALO Vrocks) and detonate the Dance of Ruin as an Airburst.
stargate525 03-27-06, 08:57 PM	Personally, I'd go with a transmutate Stone to Mud, followed by a bomber outfitted with a couple of those endless water pitchers...
CryoSilver 03-27-06, 08:59 PM	Ebola virus. Ebola is very lethal, very nasty, and horrifying to watch. I'm sure your campaign has an equivalent. Make it airborne. Walls of Fire. Wall of Fire has a HUGE area of effect, albeit in a line. But run a few down the main streets, over buildings, around wells, etc.... Make it rain acid. Not strong acid; nothing too deadly, but something concentrated enough to drop soil pHs like crazy and taint any water supplies for miles around. It isn't hard to do. You can drink a lot of things, but water with a pH of less than 4 is not among them, for long term survival. Hyrdochloric acid has a pH of zero, and it is diluted ten thousand times to get it to pH 4. That means that one gallon of HCl can taint ten thousand gallons of fresh water (roughly half an aboveground swimming pool). 6.4 gallons is roughly one cublic foot. So, a half inch of pH 4 rainfall means that your ten thousand gallons affect roughly 240,000 feet, or 5.5 acres (a 490 foot square). Dump a thousand gallons into 9 thousand of water and you get a pH of 1. pH of 1 burns. It melts. It does horrible things to flesh, and it permanently taints water. Imagine that over a whole city. Imagine the people drinking the water, walking in the puddles....
ReverendCow 03-27-06, 09:10 PM	Wow, Cryo. And I thought my Chaos Beast idea was evil....
CryoSilver 03-27-06, 09:15 PM	Terror and death is so easy when magic is involved. Oo... What about the necrotic spells from Libris Mortis? Sure an adeventurer will make his save against Necrotic Cyst or Burst, but peasants won't... Again, chain effect. Burst kills peasants, infects other, who burst, affecting others.... But I think I've contributed enough. Any more, and the nice men in the white van might come for me... And then I'd have to get their blood off my carpet after I finshed playing with them. And I just don't have time for that.
KublaiKhan 03-27-06, 09:42 PM	Shouldn't be that hard to make it modular. To install it in an airship, you'd have to cut a, presumably, square-ish hole in the bottom of the "bomb-bay." You take the bits that you cut out, and reattach them with hinges. This would also be useful for docking in places where you don't want people to figure out that it was you who just dropped wicked death on a large chunk of the country-side. Personally, I think this is a killer idea. The next thing I want to see, is a turret mounted on the bottom of an airship. Kind of like the gun-turret-bubbles they had on planes during WW2. Put your spell-caster/manifester in there and buzz the target area with Disintigrate beams. Here's the question, if you're trying to hit a person, and miss, wouldn't the beam keep going till it hit something, up to the maximum distance of the spell/power? Edit: Oh, yeah. With the Nordens' Bombsight listed above, do you think it would be possible to rig it up AS the ships controls, or at least, a portion of the ships controls and just let the pilot initiate the bombing run? Just add Arcane Eye to the list of requirements and slap an eye on the bottom of the ship to see out of. This would save on having to chop another hole in the bottom of your ship. Well, the original bombsight was rigged to take control of the aircraft from the bombardier's position. There was dual logic for this--one, it means that the bombardier can align the airship correctly from the optimal place to sight to place the bombs...but the other is that you don't have just one person doing the bombing. This means that if one of 'em takes an unlucky [ or lucky ] arrow/bolt/spell blast/whatever, that the very expensive airship doesn't crash. Arcane Eye is a good idea, though.... For the record, the bomb bay is seperate from the bombsight. The bomb bay would be about halfway or further back in the ship; the bombsight is right up in the nose. Have a glassteel window or something there for the bombardier to look out of. Historically, the bombardier also mans the nose turret....so if you've a method of rigging staves of Acid Arrow to fire on a trigger pull, then you've got a fun nose turret to play with. Now [ because eventually, I'm going to use this idea ] assuming I can plate the bottom of the airship with adamantine or something, is there any way to manipulate a wall of force or some variant thereof to shield the top parts of the ship? [ For the record, part of this is because of a discussion I was having on how to defeat a maxed-out frenzied berzerker....I finally figured out that multiple negabombs, combined with calm emotions cast into glyphs of warding dropped from a fairly high altitude would work....but sadly, most of those altitudes are still within reach of a PO'd berzerker with a mighty composite longbow of distance. ]
Lokiyn 03-28-06, 01:09 AM	Aquired from; http://www.planewalker.com/downloads/products/released.php [Recovered March 28] *Suppression Fire Evocation [Force] Level: Sor/Wiz 9 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 minute Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) Area: 20-ft./level-radius Duration: 1 minute/level Saving Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: NoMany primes would both marvel at and be horrified by the assortment of weapons developed on the battlefields of Acheron. Suppression fire is based on more powerful war machines, but its function is the same; within a few seconds of being cast powerful balls of energy begin bombarding the targeted area, making it incredibly dangerous for anyone unfortunate enough to be hit by the fiery rain. Anything within the targeted area has a 25% chance each round of being caught in a blast radius and suffering 4d4 points of force damage with a Reflex save for half damage unless they have 100% cover (and even then, any protective structure may be destroyed). This often results in heavy damage to structures, though fortified buildings will normally survive with pockets of damage. This spell can only be cast in open terrain with a real sky (thus it cannot be used indoors, underground, or in Sigil). Material Components:500 gp of alchemist’s fire, smokesticks, and thunderstone Wastequake Evocation [Earth] Level: Sor/Wiz 9 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 20 minutes Range: ¼ mile Area: 50-ft./level-radius spread Duration: 3 rounds Saving Throw: Reflex partial; see text Spell Resistance: NoDesigned to work only on the Grey Waste, the wastequake spell is the province of powerful mages who have turned their skills to the Blood War. It is not clear who invented the spell first and it does not truly matter; both the baatezu and the tanar’ri now use it to devastate legions of lesser fiends. Similar to the earthquake spell, wastequake sends shocks through the ground and opens fissures to devour all those unfortunate enough to be within its range. The wastequake lasts for three rounds. During the first round, the ground begins to ripple; any creatures standing on the surface must make a Reflex save or be knocked off their feet. Casting spells requires a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level) while the effect persists. During the second round the shocks worsen, automatically knocking everyone to the ground as gapping wounds tear through the soil of the Waste. All creatures within range must make another Reflex save (DC 16) or be pitched into the chasms. Any creature that failed the Reflex save on the first round suffers a -4 penalty to their saving throw in the second round. To make matters worse, pressurized yellowish gas begins shooting out of the cracks in the ground giving anything beyond 10 feet total concealment. During the third round the rifts close and the quakes cease, though the gas persists until dissipating at the beginning of the next round. Any creature that fell into the chasm suffers 15d6 points of bludgeoning damage and is buried beneath the surface at a depth 10 feet per caster level. Those that survive must make their own escape from the bowels of the Grey Waste. Wastequake is specifically designed not to damage fortifications or other permanent structures, although it consumes tents and impromptu huts, and any vehicles less than 10 feet long likely fall into the chasms. Thus, fiendish spellcasters have little to fear when using this spell within their own territory. After all, what’s the loss of several dozen lesser fiends so long as the stronghold stands? Material Component:A handful of soil from the Grey Waste that the caster shakes in one hand while casting the spell. I think Single use Items of these would serve the purpose.
Lyinginbedmon 03-28-06, 01:13 AM	For gun turrets, dual rods of Mordenkainen's Force Missiles (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20020809a) should do the trick
KublaiKhan 03-28-06, 09:47 AM	For gun turrets, dual rods of Mordenkainen's Force Missiles (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20020809a) should do the trick That would work nicely for flying spellcasters and dragons and such, but not so well for other airships--my point on the acid arrow staves is that, as a ranged touch spell, you can aim it at any other airships that might also be in the sky, or vs. ground installations such as catapults and ballistae. It also does acid damage, which will do a number on most materials. MFM's would be nice, though I think they're restricted to the same thing as magic missiles--you can't target objects. If you don't want to go the Acid Arrow route, I suppose you could get some wands/staves of Fireball.....though...hrmm. An idea comes to mind. AA Fireball Evocation Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) Area: 20-ft.-radius spread Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes The Anti-Aircraft fireball is a variant on the standard fireball. While the standard fireball bursts into a globe of flame, the AA Fireball bursts into a smoky cloud [ obscuring vision and causing concealment within the 20' radius ] and shards of force damage. It deals 1d6 points of slashing force damage within that same radius; reflex save for half damage. It does not generate excessive heat. In other ways, it is the same as a standard fireball. Material Component: A ball of sulphur, some bat guano, powdered charcoal, and some shards of glass. That might work for you for some AA fire....the smoke would certainly obscure the vision of anyone trying to bomb, etc. Perhaps there's some way to implement a shield spell as some kind of ablative force armor for a ship.... What'd be cool is if there were more airship rules...say, a book concerning airships, flight rules, specialized spells...I'm already going to be doing a bunch of that in one of my campaigns [ Especially when I introduce Manfred Richter von Fahrenheit, and get him his Fell Flight invocation....he's going to start a flying mercenary group that eventually the PCs might have use for. ]. Call the book "Skies of Fire" or something like that, maybe.
snowstrider 03-28-06, 11:14 AM	I've been working on airship combat rules for a while now, but I may have lost them. I can try posting them if I can find them, though I think they're unfinished...
The WarOverlord 03-28-06, 11:22 AM	Doesn't the grain tower explosion happen because the flame ignite all the grain dust that saturates the air? Not explosive, just burns extrememly fast. I would't think you could supersaturate open air that well... Though, dropping a barrel of caltrops isn't anything to sneeze at. An explosion IS a very fast burning of something such as gasoline fumes or in this case flour dust in the air (Gasoline itself doesn't explode,Gasoline fumes does...that's Science 101) Okay, the 77 gallon Keg is filled partly with flour and aggitated (shaken) to create a lot of dust particles in the keg....the caltrops is the "Shrapnel" and helps aggitate the dust...the shaking is done to the point where all the flour has turned to airborn particles. Gently adding a bunch of flint rocks (so they don't spark) after the agitation is the ignition The barrel is actually durable enough so that the flint rocks will spark as they hit each other or the caltrops on impact and ignite the flour dust before the barel breaks. The explosion not only does concusion damage but the caltrops and shards of wood do shrapnel damage. P.S. Though I don't recommend it, it is a "Myth Busters" provable bomb....then again if COLA is a valid creature in the Campaign then using one of it's metal tube cylinders of carbonated elixir to make "Cola bombs" is plausible too.
KublaiKhan 03-28-06, 12:00 PM	You know, why just limit this to bombing? Why not go for troop insertion, as well? All sorts of methods to do this. For instance, glyphs of warding with summon monster spells attached would be a fun way to do things. Inscribe the glyphs on silver pieces, and you're guaranteed someone's going to come near enough to 'em to pick it up. Or how about a combination negabomb/zombie/skeleton drop? If executed in the right fashion, you'd have no problem with deploying mass numbers of undead troops at once... Potions of Feather Fall are probably not going to be terribly expensive to buy...so you can airdrop troops in for minimal cost that way. How about a variant on feather fall that you can cast on objects? Deliver some heavy artillery that way....things like ballistae, catapults, and supplies. Depending on level, you could get something *really* impressive going...have a group of airships, and have a high-level caster on each assist in the ritual to cast Dragon Strike. THAT would be impressive to see.....gives a really fun meaning to "call in an airstrike!"
snowstrider 03-28-06, 03:56 PM	It is more economical to use dropships enchanted with feather fall to drop individual units or possibly brigades or what ever is most feasible. "It isnt the drop the sucks. It's loading the thing back up in there." -1st Seargant(sp wrong) Agema Skyjumpers.
KublaiKhan 03-28-06, 05:52 PM	It's the "loading things back in there" part that I was hoping to avoid.... Though, y'know, that gives me an idea: You could pull a "Dr. Strangelove" and ride a bomb part of the way down, to steer it a bit....hit the potion when you get to the right altitude, and hit the ground after the explosion subsides. Benefit of having a nice clear landing spot, too. :D
tiercel 03-28-06, 08:35 PM	Along the lines of the "summon monster" paratrooper/bombs is the "neutron bomb" option.... drop lots of enchanted "summon undead" tokens/rocks/whatever. Except you choose the version of summon undead that lets you summon a shadow. The shadows swarm over the living, draining them to 0 Strength, making them rise as shadows themselves. Long after your summoned undead are gone, their progeny wreak terror and death as they seek out sweet, sweet life force of the cowering mortals in their foolish little cellars..... Then you just stride in with death ward active, and you have the town and all its resources fully intact, minus any living creatures. Rebuke and control undead a bucketful of now-bored shadows to give them a little purpose and directionality.... say, lying in ambush at nearby crossroads leading up to the town. Non-humanoid corpses don't animate as shadows, so you'll have plenty of fresh meat to use for animate dead. Skeletal draft horses don't get tired, after all, and you'll need some way of hauling all that loot back to your nearby airship. Once you get to the next town, you can just have your commanded/controlled undead paradrop through the bottom of your airship into your next victim town, without relying on magic items. (Or, of course, if you had some shadows to begin with then you could skip the summon step in the first place.)
ReverendCow 03-28-06, 09:51 PM	tiercel> I like it! I think Shadows might be a little easier to deal with than Chaos Beasts. One question, though. Can you summon a Shadow using Summon Monster? I ask because it's not listed with the monsters in the spell list in the SRD. If you can, then just use Summon Monster V, it'll let you summon 1d4+1 Shadows. Could you pump that up with metamagic to get even more? Also, is there a save against the Shadows' Strenght Drain? There isn't one listed in the book. Is it basically, if they succeed on the touch attack, they drain your strength?
MagikMissile 03-29-06, 12:26 AM	I've been told to just put a thousand pieces of paper with "Explosive runes" written on them into a wooden barrel with a bottle of alchemist fire. Not bad. I must admit this is a very amusing idea, but first I just want to put out there I was laughing very hard when I heard this idea, though I must say I misread it, I just envisioned a "crop duster" effect with little leaflets of death, the fallout would be terrible though, a strong updraft could ruin your day, or, the nieghboring villages, hah! A spectacular display of death! Like everyone else, I suggest the simple idea of alchemists fire... though in Eberron you are so blessed as to have also alchemists frost and alchemists lightning, as well as acid-fire... Though, if you are playing in Eberron, I had a wonderful idea, you could find some way of contatining a living spell and find some way to get into a barrel-shaped bomb... I get the feeling that grapple checks won't work... and on the living spell template I would suggest the one the book uses: cloudkill, a sort of WWI mustard-gas-esque thingy that you could use to wreck havoc among the war-torn trenches of contested territory inside the Mournland, it would be fabulous! ah-ha! Of course, for the full affect you airship need be painted red or black with giant iron crosses on the side, just to get in the spirit of things... cheers, MM
The WarOverlord 03-29-06, 01:23 AM	Personally, I'd go with a transmutate Stone to Mud, followed by a bomber outfitted with a couple of those endless water pitchers... Well, if your going to be Spell slinging instead of using Bombs may as well have casters on board casting Hell bomb, Meteor Storm, and Storm of Vengeance :rolleyes: Also, how big are these Airships and are they magically afloat or do they use Gas? All we need from a Powerful Spell caster on the ground is a Dispell Magic to bring down magical floating ships, while fire spells or Fire Arrows and the like flung up-words or launched from arial defence would make Hindenburgs out of flamable gas filled ships (let alone making swiss chesse out of the gas containers will do the same thing).
tiercel 03-29-06, 05:29 AM	One question, though. Can you summon a Shadow using Summon Monster? I ask because it's not listed with the monsters in the spell list in the SRD. If you can, then just use Summon Monster V, it'll let you summon 1d4+1 Shadows. Could you pump that up with metamagic to get even more?Not with the standard summon monster spell, no. If you use some kind of wacky optional rules (apparently out of Dragon) then maybe, yeah. I was thinking of summon undead, which Spell Compendium lists as summon undead V. However, it doesn't list a summon undead VI or higher, so you can only get one per casting. But... shadows do not allow a save against their Strength drain, which makes them very scary, scarier than wraiths arguably. Once they start spawning more shadows, you are in business.
ReverendCow 03-29-06, 08:10 AM	Not with the standard summon monster spell, no. If you use some kind of wacky optional rules (apparently out of Dragon) then maybe, yeah. I was thinking of summon undead, which Spell Compendium lists as summon undead V. However, it doesn't list a summon undead VI or higher, so you can only get one per casting. But... shadows do not allow a save against their Strength drain, which makes them very scary, scarier than wraiths arguably. Once they start spawning more shadows, you are in business. Rock. I'm going to have to see about getting the Spell Compedium. Of all the ideas so far, this has to be one of the best. I can just invision some random object dropping out of the sky, making a loud thump as it crashes into the street. Then, as the peasants gather around to investigate, shadows ooze out of it and begin the slaughter.
ekaj 03-29-06, 10:51 AM	troop insertion is easy. Take long, broad airships, with doors on the sides of the ship that open like ramps. Have them flying low, and when the bombs are dropped, they fly over the walls, and into the now flat part of town. lower large doors, have at it. Loading of troops and loot is also easier. It's not like we're looking at making a submarine. we can have the doors. So far, the chemical bombs (Alch-Fire, Oil, ect.) are what I'm looking for. But the other stuff is way too fun not to take note of. So keep em coming! :devil: And Cryo is really the Avatar of Erythnul. Just kidding. I hope. :eek: Edit: Oh yeah, WarOverlord, Magically powered. Probably the size of a galleon. Need the room for bombs and crews.
KublaiKhan 03-29-06, 11:29 AM	troop insertion is easy. Take long, broad airships, with doors on the sides of the ship that open like ramps. Have them flying low, and when the bombs are dropped, they fly over the walls, and into the now flat part of town. lower large doors, have at it. Loading of troops and loot is also easier. It's not like we're looking at making a submarine. we can have the doors. So far, the chemical bombs (Alch-Fire, Oil, ect.) are what I'm looking for. But the other stuff is way too fun not to take note of. So keep em coming! :devil: And Cryo is really the Avatar of Erythnul. Just kidding. I hope. :eek: Edit: Oh yeah, WarOverlord, Magically powered. Probably the size of a galleon. Need the room for bombs and crews. Are these airships that look like standard ships? Now, keep in mind, something "galleon" sized probably won't be that fast, and you're going to need some support, especially if the opposition has got airships, too. So you need some kind of fighter squadron.... If you've got access to a cadre of Warlocks with the Fell Flight invocation, that would be fairly ideal, as they can keep it going all day, along with elderitch blasts...and all with no extra equipment needed, so they've got room to carry wands of cure light wounds or whatever to patch themselves up if needed. Also, it might help to have some smaller ships equipped with oversized grappling hooks. Have them tow any ships out of the harbor, or pull the roof off of any important buildings.
ReverendCow 03-29-06, 04:07 PM	Have your galleon carrying the payload of WMD's/troops. Have your fighter escorts carrying smaller Air-to-Air weapons. Have flight capable wizards/scorcerers/psions/etc flying around with AoE's and whatever else would be beneficial. Just makes sure that you've got people on your galleon and escorts with magic/psionic repair capability and have some of your flight-capable people have access to healing for any who need it. For your galleon, have rod mounted to the ceiling of the bomb-bay that runs lengthwise, terminating over the bomb-doors. The rod will only be supported on the one end mounted to the ceiling. Have ballista bolts enchanted with your mass-damage effects, with eye-hooks on the tail-end. The eye-hooks will go onto the rod, so that you just slide them down the length of the rod, where they will drop off when they're over the bomb-doors at the end of the rod. Example: Ceiling_________________________________ ________________ Rod.......|_____________________________ _______________ Ballista bolts......\|/...\|/....\|/....\|/...\|/...\|/...\|/....\|/ Ballista bolts.......|......|......|......|.....| .....|......|......| Ballista bolts.......|......|......|......|.....| .....|......|......| Ballista bolts.......|......|......|......|.....| .....|......|......| Deck____________________________________ _________Bomb-door______ Ignore the periods on the ballista bolts. For use with the bombsight listed above, just add Mage Hand or a similar telekinetic effect to the list of requirements. If you dont' care as much for accuracy, just have some bombadiers with five-foot poles to push the ballista bolts to the end of the rod, as you fly over the target area. For the record, I hate how this site edits the formatting on posts.
mvincent 03-29-06, 04:29 PM	Yet more ideas for spells that affect a large area; a cone becomes a large circle when pointed straight down from a suitable height. A 60' cone would become a 100'+ circle if cast from a height of 55' or so. The types of spells that could be used this way include: - Cone of cold (15d6 cold damage) - Prismatic spray (all sorts of damage) - Greater shout (10d6 sonic damage) and - Waves of exhaustion
ReverendCow 03-29-06, 04:37 PM	Yet more ideas for spells that affect a large area; a cone becomes a large circle when pointed started straight down from a suitable height. A 60' cone would become a 100'+ circle if cast from a height of 55' or so. All you'd have to do is make use of Contingency. Set the "detonator" to go off when it reaches the specified height.
KublaiKhan 03-29-06, 04:47 PM	Have your galleon carrying the payload of WMD's/troops. Have your fighter escorts carrying smaller Air-to-Air weapons. Have flight capable wizards/scorcerers/psions/etc flying around with AoE's and whatever else would be beneficial. Just makes sure that you've got people on your galleon and escorts with magic/psionic repair capability and have some of your flight-capable people have access to healing for any who need it. For your galleon, have rod mounted to the ceiling of the bomb-bay that runs lengthwise, terminating over the bomb-doors. The rod will only be supported on the one end mounted to the ceiling. Have ballista bolts enchanted with your mass-damage effects, with eye-hooks on the tail-end. The eye-hooks will go onto the rod, so that you just slide them down the length of the rod, where they will drop off when they're over the bomb-doors at the end of the rod. Example: Ceiling_________________________________ ________________ Rod.......|_____________________________ _______________ Ballista bolts......\|/...\|/....\|/....\|/...\|/...\|/...\|/....\|/ Ballista bolts.......|......|......|......|.....| .....|......|......| Ballista bolts.......|......|......|......|.....| .....|......|......| Ballista bolts.......|......|......|......|.....| .....|......|......| Deck____________________________________ _________Bomb-door______ Ignore the periods on the ballista bolts. For use with the bombsight listed above, just add Mage Hand or a similar telekinetic effect to the list of requirements. If you dont' care as much for accuracy, just have some bombadiers with five-foot poles to push the ballista bolts to the end of the rod, as you fly over the target area. For the record, I hate how this site edits the formatting on posts. Norden's Wonderous Bombsight already includes Telekinesis for operating the ship controls; I'm sure that this could count as one of 'em. ^^; I like your enchanted ballista bolt idea, though, very much. An idea, also, would be to have the bombsight push the rod, and have most of the Ballista Bolts inside an AMF, if they're warded. This means that they can be loaded and unloaded safely, if that's needed. What could be a lot of fun would be to have a fighter craft that's essentially just a flying ballista....
KublaiKhan 03-29-06, 04:49 PM	All you'd have to do is make use of Contingency. Set the "detonator" to go off when it reaches the specified height. Sadly, very sadly, contingency is a personal-only spell....so not terribly useful for this purpose.
mvincent 03-29-06, 05:56 PM	Sadly, very sadly, contingency is a personal-only spell....so not terribly useful for this purpose.Yup, plus the spells are fairly high in level for being placed in a contingency. However, a greater glyph of warding shouldn't need contingency. The rules say "You set the conditions of the ward." which could include being at the right height. Note though that a greater glyph of warding would only work for 6th level spells or below (i.e. just greater shout). However, a device constructed similarly to a magic trap (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#magicDeviceTrapCost) can be of any level, and uses an Alarm spell to establish a proximity trigger (which should allow for height to be specified).
KublaiKhan 03-29-06, 06:07 PM	Yup, plus the spells are fairly high in level for being placed in a contingency. However, a greater glyph of warding shouldn't need contingency. The rules say "You set the conditions of the ward." which could include being at the right height. Note though that a greater glyph of warding would only work for 6th level spells or below (i.e. just greater shout). However, a device constructed similarly to a magic trap (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#magicDeviceTrapCost) can be of any level, and uses an Alarm spell to establish a proximity trigger (which should allow for height to be specified). Yep, which is why I specified that the devices had to be kept in an AMF while on board--don't want one of the crew trying to load/unload/count/repair damage set 'em off. Although most spells seem to specify that a thin sheet of lead will keep them from going off....perhaps you could load the 'bombs' in a lead-lined cylinder? With lead caps on the top and bottom? Make the rack that they sit on in the hold a sort of "racetrack" shape, and open the bottom 'cap' when dropping it. Be a lot cheaper than paying a cleric to keep an AMF up during that whole time. The "racetrack" shape of the bomb-rack is due to recycling the bomb holders--just keep pushing 'em around and around.
ReverendCow 03-29-06, 09:37 PM	An idea, also, would be to have the bombsight push the rod, and have most of the Ballista Bolts inside an AMF, if they're warded. This means that they can be loaded and unloaded safely, if that's needed. You wouldn't have to. Would you agree that the enchanted ballista bolts would be priced as "single-use" items? If so, they don't actually get "used" until you drop them or fire them from a ballista. Accidentally dropping one wouldn't detonate it, unless the person meant to drop it, in which case they'd have been suicidal. I was thinking about this. If you were going to have a hollow ballista bolt full of an alchemical substance, which would be released on impact, you might want to have it so that it is released by the destruction of some sort of collasping nose-piece that could be protected with a grenade-like safety-pin. You pull the pin, then release the bolt, which goes off as normal. I'm glad you like the ballista bolt idea. It seems to be about the best thing to use, in terms of existing game mechanics combined with the desired torpedo-like effect. That's my opinion, anyway. How much would ballista bolts cost, anyway? Maybe 5gp/apiece?
ReverendCow 03-29-06, 10:24 PM	Well, the original bombsight was rigged to take control of the aircraft from the bombardier's position. There was dual logic for this--one, it means that the bombardier can align the airship correctly from the optimal place to sight to place the bombs...but the other is that you don't have just one person doing the bombing. This means that if one of 'em takes an unlucky [ or lucky ] arrow/bolt/spell blast/whatever, that the very expensive airship doesn't crash. Arcane Eye is a good idea, though.... Ooops, almost forgot to reply to this bit: Dude, all you have to do, is have the bombardier BE the pilot! Have the bombardier/pilot compartment, controls and everything, be in the guts of the airship, and possibly armored. No one will have line of sight to them. If you swing it correctly, no one (outside of the crew of the airship) will even know where in the airship the pilot/bombardier IS. Slap another Arcane Eye on the front so they can see where they're going. Heck, you could even have a Schism'ed psion at the controls, one mind piloting, one mind dropping the bombs, just rig it up so that the controls for bomb-dropping are purely mental.
Lokiyn 03-29-06, 10:50 PM	Anyone ever play planescape Torment and manage to weasel a copy of the Modron Cannon? I'm envisioning a ship built on the Ethereal plane with Ethereal Tapestries built into the ship. You would have to build the Tapestries on the Material plane then connect them to the ship through the portal. Then you would have to launch the weapons through the Portals. the portal is 8 Feet high by 3 feet wide So you couldn't launch Hanggliders, although you could launch barrels of material through the Tapestry. Although you couldn't carry any sort of fighter wing on the material plane inside the ship, You could attach a Suspend a Boom between Two opposing Tapesties and suspend the gliders off that, So launch the gliders (Ornithopter) Then Drop the boom (filled with explosives of course) Then start Dropping bombs off the ship through the now clear gates. Then while you are safely bombing the city the Glider Pilots Drop Spell turrents at the major exits. To catch people attempting to evacuate. Also Drop Turrets at major intersections and in any location that people are clustering. All you have to worry about now are transdimentional spells and someone targeting the Tapestries. Other options are to find a natural stone cavern. Preferably one that that is realativly solid and airtight at well. Fill it with fecal matter then gather the gasses as it decomposes and store it. You probably would have to use glass or ceramic canisters.... Or better yet Build a Riverine Sphere and a Riverine pump system, Since Riverine doesnt take damage you can pump the methane as much as you can put into it with your pumping system. Be sure to use a screw cap as part of the pump so you can detach the sphere sealed (well i be the first few tries are going to shoot everywhere and damage a lot) But once thats done some glyphs with Rod of cancelation set to activate on impact (by slamming into the sphere. Riverine is also destroyed by a disintegrate which means that now you have a cloud of methane expanding across the city which will synergise will with the fires you have been setting. Another option using a riverine sphere is to build a riverine decanter of endless water and place it inside the sphere through a hatch the plug for the hatch is designed so that pressure from the inside holds the hatch shut. Outside [====//[Hatch]\\====] inside now the Decanter is activated as you place it in and check to make sure the plate isn't misaligned once its sealed the decanter will continue to place more an more water in the sphere. Now eventually the pressure of the water will get to the point of fusion. Or since dnd doesn't have fusion you have 30x gallons of water where x equals the number of rounds you allow the sphere to build pressure. Drop that and blow it up and you have quite a crater (see why an ethereal ship is good ;)) Riverine:This unusual material is made from water under extremely high pressure, usually obtained from the Elemental Plane of Water but sometimes from the blackwater trenches far below the ocean’s surface. The water swirls and flows continuously, sandwiched between fields of magical force.Half of the Armor Class bonus from armor and shields made from riverine is a deflection bonus (round down). For example, a suit of riverine chainmail would provide a +2 armor bonus and a +3 deflection bonus to AC. This substance is considered masterwork and can be enhanced magically as any other armor. Riverine is sometimes also used to create walls and even containers. Being enclosed in magical force, it is immune to all damage and is unaffected by most spells. However, disintegrate immediately destroys an item made of riverine, as does a rod of cancellation, a sphere of annihilation, or a Mordenkainen’s disjunction spell, causing the water to spill out in a sudden rush. Armor and shields made of riverine do not form a complete enclosure, so breath weapons and spells do still affect the wearer. However, walls of riverine block ethereal travel, breath weapons, and spell effects, just as a wall of force does.Type of Item Cost Riverine Item Modifier Light armor +9,000 gp Medium armor +16,000 gp Heavy armor +25,000 gp Shield +4,000 gp Other items +2,000 gp/lb. *Edit* The Actual Bomb First off we need to look at the decanter The Decanter Costs 9,000gp and weighs 2 lb Two pounds of Riverine means the extra 4,000gp cost So a total cost of 13,000gp Now for the sphere itself. Now assuming that the Riverine weighs the same as normal iron (which is safest since it doesn't list any adjustment to weight.) Irons density is 490.059 Pounds per Cubic Feet Decanters put out 30 gallons per round. So for time issue assume we need 2 rounds till the sphere is filled. Water has a value of 7.481 Gallons per cubic foot. So we need ~8 cubic feet plus a little for the Decanter lets assume that the decanter holds a quart or so. anyway its almost negligable. So we need a sphere 380 millimeters in Radius so its outer dimensions are 381 millimeters in radius. (we need it as thin as possible to minimise the riverine, the fact its a set of forces helps with the structural question..) This 1 millimeter thin sphere weighs 31.48 pounds, (the area is 0.064 Cubic feet) The cost for the sphere is 62,972 gp. So the total Assemblage is 75,972 gp. Now each round once activated 30 more gallons of water enter the sphere. that translates to 250 lbs of water per round. So at the end of the second round once the sphere is full it weighs about 532lb After one Min 2,532 lb (.9psi) after an hour 150,032 lb (53psi). After a Day 3,600,000 lb (1279.9 psi). If you felt like waiting a year you would get a 1,314,000,000 lb and (467,182psi) Muwahaha thats 16,383,390 square feet covered up to a depth of 10 feet in water. If you could estabish line of effect somehow you could cast Water to acid, and since the entire sphere's water volume is only 8 cubic feet. *Insert Evil laugh* Well at least it gives the Hulking Hurler something to throw....
KublaiKhan 03-30-06, 09:02 AM	Ooops, almost forgot to reply to this bit: Dude, all you have to do, is have the bombardier BE the pilot! Have the bombardier/pilot compartment, controls and everything, be in the guts of the airship, and possibly armored. No one will have line of sight to them. If you swing it correctly, no one (outside of the crew of the airship) will even know where in the airship the pilot/bombardier IS. Slap another Arcane Eye on the front so they can see where they're going. Heck, you could even have a Schism'ed psion at the controls, one mind piloting, one mind dropping the bombs, just rig it up so that the controls for bomb-dropping are purely mental. Ah, right, we're in a magic world where the ordinary limitations of military hardware don't apply. I seem to have forgotten that, even in the midst of building magic items. ^^; Still....while a schism'd psion would be a good idea, I personally think that the jobs of the pilot and bombardier ought to be seperate. Think of most movies/TV shows/stories you've seen/read--weapons systems and piloting are separated on the capital ships. Piloting a large ship takes a lot of work, as does tending to the weapons. The pilot may end up having to make a bunch of high-DC piloting checks, while the bombardier need only be halfway competent--but the bombardier needs to be right on the money with his dexterity. Piloting is probably best accomplished with a mid-level Expert, but for a bombardier, I'd want a shooting fighter, or maybe a rogue. .....which makes me glad I specified that Norden's Wonderous Bombsight needs altitudes over 50', because sneak/death attacking with a bomb is just a little bit.....interesting. ....hey, with the Merciful enchantment, potentially there could be nonlethal bombs for good-aligned countries. [Edit] What's the requirement for the Merciful enchantment, again?
CryoSilver 03-30-06, 09:40 PM	How high can your ships go? If they can reach orbit and beyond, go a few thousand miles out and use Wall of Stone repeatedly until you have an asteroid. A few dozen tons should be enough. Go Armageddon on them.
Lyinginbedmon 03-31-06, 12:47 AM	How high can your ships go? If they can reach orbit and beyond, go a few thousand miles out and use Wall of Stone repeatedly until you have an asteroid. A few dozen tons should be enough. Go Armageddon on them. This is exactly why I created the Laws of Magic in my world, it means beyond the atmosphere magic doesn't exist (#1 - The reach of magical ability is the furthest point of the civilisation using it) No Star Trek because of this rule either, but what DM wants that in a D&D 3.5 game?!
Iver Gearsham 03-31-06, 12:54 AM	I could do more damage for the money spent on the "superweapons" you guys have made by simply employing Rogues equipped with Belts of Many Pockets filled with Shrink Item-ed pools of boiling oil that is on fire in cloth form. Just have the rogues sneak through the city by rooftop tucking the cloths in the thatch roofs and stables, attics, grainerys. As the duration on Shrink Item lasts days the rogues have time to escape the city and be long gone when the city's F-Day arrives and all but the most secure buildings erupt in flames within minutes of each other.
turtlemonkey 03-31-06, 01:21 AM	hmm for bombs was kinda thinking of something similar in an epic campain (trying to make tanks with animate object, and using more mundane things for shells to be fired...) anyway best bet for bombs id have to say is fire seeds (you could also get dust of dryness thats been filled with water, this would put out any fires, but a huge barrle of them and you could start flooding things out... maybe flood the inside of a castles walls, just an idea). anything that resembles traps and glyphs that go off when someone walks near, or even when you hit ground.. perhaps put it on rocks or something... another idea for the mroe classic bombs would be alchemist fire... acid would be another... you would ahve to custom make this.. but take something similar to thunderstone's and kinda increase it so they do 1d6 sonic dmg... that should also go through hardness.. and just stock pile those suckers.. perhaps huge shell shapes, or maybe something smaller say 1-5 in a bag which are then dropped. also brancing on that idea you could pile them up so that they make large dmg bombs (for castle defensives.. going through walls) or you could get something more similar to napalms... perhaps have the aclhmesit fire have small "parachutes" on them. so they blow into the wind.. less accurate but then you blanket a much larger area, with a more increased chance to set fire. also if they up to be against an army, tanglefoot bags could help to slow down or stop said army. depending how high tech u want to get it. you could get something similar to a laser if you wanted (though this would kinda require a bit strech)... get something smilar to a daylight spell and put into a sorta telescope tube... inside that change have mirrors set so they all send the light to one end... which all the light focused go through a series of lens which condense the light... and you have a laser... since daylight spells produce same amoutn of light as daylight it should be sufficent light... though depending how hot you make it is up to you... and really even if you want those or how they work, or how well is up to you.. but just an idea for ya always the fun alchol+fire motlv coctails... (spelling on those?) gunpowder is a bit the standard smokesticks would also be nice if you want to block out archers and what not anyway those just some mundane ways to help those airship.. sorry if some of these were suggested, didnt feel like reading all the way through them all
KublaiKhan 03-31-06, 09:04 AM	This is exactly why I created the Laws of Magic in my world, it means beyond the atmosphere magic doesn't exist (#1 - The reach of magical ability is the furthest point of the civilisation using it) No Star Trek because of this rule either, but what DM wants that in a D&D 3.5 game?! Awww, no orbital weapons? But then you could have a mundane version of Meteor Swarm! Just drop adamantine spears from orbit, and you're all set. It'd leave a pretty crater, too.
ReverendCow 04-01-06, 01:06 PM	Sorry for my absence, I've been moving the last couple of days. Anyway, on to the post: You all are seriously cracked. I agree that orbital weapons, or anything that involves leaving the atmosphere should be limited to 40th level + games. I mean, what we've been talking about otherwise is pretty far out there, as it is, without some chucklehead dialing up "SOL" and nuking half a city in a SINGLE go. I'm all for WMDs and bringing about a global apocolypse, but let's think on a scale that meshes better with the game as it is. Besides, I don't think D&D has a ruleset for reentry burnup. I think the bombs I'm going to use, are going to be: 1) Earthquake, 2) Summon Undead, 3) Fire Storm, 4) Animate Dead or Create Undead on a second bombing run, to get some free ground-troops from the victims of the first bomb run. Go check out the description for the spell Fire Shield. Isn't there a feat that will allow you to use different elemental energies in spells that use specific elemental energies? If so, use sonic damage instead. A decent number of small-ish projectiles would get destroyed before they even hit you.
Lokiyn 04-01-06, 01:15 PM	without some chucklehead dialing up "SOL" and nuking half a city in a SINGLE go. I'm all for WMDs and bringing about a global apocolypse, but let's think on a scale that meshes better with the game as it is. Besides, I don't think D&D has a ruleset for reentry burnup. Awww no Compressing 1,314,000,000 pounds of water into a 2.5 foot diameter sphere. No using Apocalypse from the sky and simulacrum Living Breastplates to power 200 mile radius blasts of death doom and destruction? Awww ;)
ReverendCow 04-01-06, 01:32 PM	Lokiyn> And you're the most cracked of 'em all. Except for maybe Cryo. I dunno, I don't exactly see fusion being possible in a 20th level or below game. I'll tell you what I'd like to see: You know those huge cannons they had mounted on trains during WWII? Imagine a ballista that size. What would be the range increment, do you think? Oh, yeah, the Animate/Create Undead bombs that I mentioned above, they spells would be metamagic'd into area effects. For more evil goodness.
KublaiKhan 04-02-06, 10:32 AM	Go check out the description for the spell Fire Shield. Isn't there a feat that will allow you to use different elemental energies in spells that use specific elemental energies? If so, use sonic damage instead. A decent number of small-ish projectiles would get destroyed before they even hit you. Fire shield looks nice, but it's a personal-range spell....and it deals damage to the attacker, which wouldn't be really applicable unless someone jumped up with a sword and started swinging...
ReverendCow 04-02-06, 10:51 AM	Fire shield looks nice, but it's a personal-range spell....and it deals damage to the attacker, which wouldn't be really applicable unless someone jumped up with a sword and started swinging... Ahhh, I guess I didn't read it that closely. I was kind of hoping for a sort of shield that would destroy incoming "fire."
obrysii 04-02-06, 12:21 PM	The most potent airship bomber system would be to purchuse several Soarwhales...each one can lift up to 134,400 pounds. What you do is you get four of them, and tie straps around them so that they can all collectively share the burden. Then you carve out, say, a top of a mountain that weighs up to 537,600 pounds. Take this massive rock and float your Soarwhale miniherd over the enemy strong hold and release the rock. Since objects falling deal 1d6 points of damage for every 200 pounds, it means the rock deals 2,708d6 damage (including the 20d6 for distance). That averages out to be about 8,124 damage in whatever area the rock happens to take up. Interestingly enough...Red, Gold, and Silver Great Wyrms can use this strategy to great effect: using their own bodies as the object instead of a large rock. Since according to the Draconomicon, a colossal dragon weighs about a million pounds, it deals over twice the damage of the Soarwhale herd!
ReverendCow 04-02-06, 05:28 PM	The most potent airship bomber system would be to purchuse several Soarwhales...each one can lift up to 134,400 pounds. What you do is you get four of them, and tie straps around them so that they can all collectively share the burden. Then you carve out, say, a top of a mountain that weighs up to 537,600 pounds. Take this massive rock and float your Soarwhale miniherd over the enemy strong hold and release the rock. Since objects falling deal 1d6 points of damage for every 200 pounds, it means the rock deals 2,708d6 damage (including the 20d6 for distance). That averages out to be about 8,124 damage in whatever area the rock happens to take up. Yeah, but how many shots can you get off at a time? Not exactly cost effective. Interestingly enough...Red, Gold, and Silver Great Wyrms can use this strategy to great effect: using their own bodies as the object instead of a large rock. Since according to the Draconomicon, a colossal dragon weighs about a million pounds, it deals over twice the damage of the Soarwhale herd! Wouldn't the dragons take damage too? Also, how are you going to convince some dragons to go running around falling on people? Your ideas are interesting, but much harder to implement. Besides, which is cooler, raining apocolyptic death from the sky, or dropping a big rock on someone?
Lyinginbedmon 04-02-06, 06:05 PM	Your ideas are interesting, but much harder to implement. Besides, which is cooler, raining apocolyptic death from the sky, or dropping a big rock on someone? Depends on whether you like Monty Python
ReverendCow 04-02-06, 07:30 PM	Depends on whether you like Monty Python I like Monty Python, but I think that summoning a unimaginably large foot to crush your foes might be a bit outside the scope of the game.
KublaiKhan 04-03-06, 09:08 AM	In terms of the Great Wyrms, keep in mind that falling damage for them is capped at 20d6; they don't take the damage from their own weight. All the wyrm needs is a cleric cohort with "heal" and he'll be back up and ready--should have no problem making the 'massive damage' fort save. Of course, if you wanted to be cruel, you could gate the Tarrasque in, if you're going to be doing things like that...
MogliGrimTooth 04-03-06, 05:29 PM	i have done somthing similar to this before. we use air ships that use a type of helm to fly then packed it with boulders and oil. then rigged a large balloon on the ship to help counter the weight of boulders. a boulder dropped from a good height will smash right through most roofs even a good stone one..... the the second group of ships dropped barrells of oil and then our mages rained fire balls around the city...... we trashed huge parts of the city in a very short time.... remember you dont need to bomb the entire city just the `important bits, docks, barricks, merchant areas, noble areas.... so on..... well at least this worked for us.... and once the commoners realised what was going on... looting also became an issue......
obrysii 04-03-06, 08:33 PM	In terms of the Great Wyrms, keep in mind that falling damage for them is capped at 20d6; they don't take the damage from their own weight. All the wyrm needs is a cleric cohort with "heal" and he'll be back up and ready--should have no problem making the 'massive damage' fort save. Of course, if you wanted to be cruel, you could gate the Tarrasque in, if you're going to be doing things like that... Heh. All of the Great Wyrms capable of reaching colossal size can learn Heal by themselves.
KublaiKhan 04-04-06, 02:02 AM	i have done somthing similar to this before. we use air ships that use a type of helm to fly then packed it with boulders and oil. then rigged a large balloon on the ship to help counter the weight of boulders. a boulder dropped from a good height will smash right through most roofs even a good stone one..... the the second group of ships dropped barrells of oil and then our mages rained fire balls around the city...... we trashed huge parts of the city in a very short time.... remember you dont need to bomb the entire city just the `important bits, docks, barricks, merchant areas, noble areas.... so on..... well at least this worked for us.... and once the commoners realised what was going on... looting also became an issue...... Were you playing in the Spelljammer setting?
ReverendCow 04-04-06, 08:13 PM	I guess the next logical question in this thread should be: How would you defend against "Airship Bombers"? I mean, pretend that you are responsible for the defense of a metropolitan area and you have been attacked by air-borne bombers and have erected defenses against such attacks. What are they? Also, what would be good weaponry for air-to-air combat situations?
ekaj 04-04-06, 08:52 PM	And now we find out... Dragons are out. Some of you are going to hate me... I am a fan of the large scale battles. These don't happen too often in DnD because of two things. 1) Spellcasters. 2) Dragons. A friend of mine was so wonderfully kind to point out that these things decimate legions of troops and make large scale warfare un reasonable. Yay. Solution #1: Eliminate spellcasters from battle. Arcane spellcasters anyway. AoE spells and the like do too much damage. How to do this without eliminating magic from an already heavy magic campaign? Easy. Wizards at war... with each other. No arcane spellcaster will join a war against another country. Due to the fact that the Orders are politically balanced and fear a war with eachother will eliminate their orders alltogether. Or something like that. However, you can still buy magic items and things, and hire them to cast spells, ect. I would be stupid to remove divine spellcasters from war. So anything magic is still legal. As long as you are BUYING it. Solution #2: As for dragons, who do you think are controling things behind the scenes? Engaging in open warfare will violate some sort of draconic treaty or blow their cover. So hiring a spellcaster to cast armagedon on a city or country is considered an act of war. But selling bombers to both sides is legal. :D So is hiring them to adventure and find an artifact, ect. Sorry, folks. But this is a campaign setting issue that came up late in creation. The good news is I have to rethink the airships themselves. :mad: I need to mass produce them, cheaper, and better quality. The dwarven "U-Boat" is all ready to test out. by the way... Torpedoes? All power sources are magic, before anyone asks. No gunpowder. Magical weapons are best for the guns, ect, on board the airships. Call it a personel quirk.
KublaiKhan 04-04-06, 09:44 PM	Defence? Well, look at the classic methods. For instance, my AA-Fireball that I built earlier in this thread. Grappling ballistas--think a harpoon fired from a ballista, attached to a winch. Walls of Force over important buildings, etc. Gunner's Turrets with Rods of Acid Arrow. Clerics running around with Rods of Dispel Magic, counterspelling. Lots and lots of heavy crossbows. Many of those would work in Air-to-air combat, too.....
Lokiyn 04-05-06, 12:30 AM	I remember on an ancient thread put together 2-3 years ago we had taken the gp value of a metropolis and converted a % of that (i think 40%) as a yearly defence tax for the purpose of magical defences. The final option i believe that netted the perfect set up was purchasing multiple spheres of tornados from the stronghold builders guide. Each is whinched above rooms of antimagic. The spheres surrounded the city generating an eternal tornado that was virtually impenitrable (lighting turbines couldn't penetrate it because it wassn't a "storm" but a tornado. Another thing that was involved was part of the defence and infrastructure budget going towards constuction of a cubic gate such that prisoners are working building a mountain over the city on the Ethereal plane. The mountain doen't effect the city but prevents ethereal assults, in addition and force effect in the city immediatly goes off as the extention of force onto the ethereal blocks lines of effect. so effects like suppresion fire would lance down and stop above the city for some unknown reason. Toss in the final wierdstone to block astral travels and the city is solidly protected. you will probably need something like this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=399911) to provide for the city's food needs. however you are now defended on the ethereal, astral, and physical fronts. Metropolis sized cities have a gold piece value of 100,000gp, so 41% tax rate (actually not a lot considering the traditional taxes) would be 41k a year. So you can buy a cubic gate in 4 years to start the ethereal defenses. Also you have a wierdstone in 5-6 years. So those are the two main projects. The final project of course would be expensive or cheap depending on the choices. If you choose to include the city in an "eye" you would need to link the eyes so that they all overlap. Needing 426 Eyes to encase a city in a 1 mile radius circle. (2 mile diameter) Unfortunatly that would take about 936 years.... The other option depends on the actual effects of the eyes and thier radius. Most of the orbs have an effect of 2 miles + the stronghold. If you used those as a measure then the effect could be recreated by using 5 spheres so that the outer radius of each tonado don't enter the city radius. However i doubt that that is the area of effect. However even if you assume an effect of 100 foot tornado outside the eye you are reducing the spheres needed to 170 which is 373 years. However if its a radius of effect of 900 feet it would only take 50 years to put the spheres into play. Of course in that case you would need to put anothe sphere to produce calm weather to nullify the natural tornados generated by the cross winds. Since they aren't maintained magically the orb should nullify them. however external tonados that move outwords would be a disaster to others. It would be a long term project, however its not beyond belief to have mages and wizards being payed for by a kingdom to devise defences that would take generations to complete. expecially once the first two defences are working.
Raven Dark 04-05-06, 12:57 AM	Defenses against air raids? I would say Feather Fall. If you've ever read Sharn: City of Towers, the city of Sharn has magical "areas" of feather fall over all of the city bridges. That way if someone were to fall off a tower (all too frequent in Sharn) and fall towards one of the thousands of bridges on the way down, they would start floating down softly and safely as soon as they came anywhere within 20 feet of a bridge. Cover an entire city in a permanent area of Feather Fall and all those bombs you built that require a hard impact will have a hard time detonating. What's more, city officials can recover the bombs and use them against the enemy. :)
KublaiKhan 04-05-06, 09:37 AM	Cover an entire city in a permanent area of Feather Fall and all those bombs you built that require a hard impact will have a hard time detonating. What's more, city officials can recover the bombs and use them against the enemy. :) If you trigger the magic bombs with the 'alarm' spell, that won't be an issue. I think that the best way to handle this would be the Eberron concept of the Elderitch Machine, which produces a bunch of horizontal Walls of Force all over the city when activated.
snowstrider 04-05-06, 11:03 AM	Eldritch cannon: Cost: (not sure) Damage: 6d8 (Ignores hardness 20) Critical: n/a Range increment: 150ft Typical crew: 3 Description: While seeking an effective weapon against dragons, the engineers (artificers mostly) of Mechan found that they could channel pure eldritch energy into a container. By puncturing one end of this container, a fraction of its power escapes and propels it at great speed in the opposite direction of the puncture. The weapon was nearly abandoned, however, due to lack of accuracy before a desperate smith put one into his chimney and fired (quite accurately) at a marauding red dragon, he managed this several times when dragons flew overhead, and this strategy was adapted with great success into a more portable form. The current model of this weapon consists of a sturdy tube with a hatch on one end and a release lever to propel the ordinance. The success of these weapons prompted many other forays into "Firearms" after the end of the War of the Dragonflight, including the now standard issue Alchemic rifle. This weapon functions nearly identically to a catapault, it requires one full round action to aim, one full round action to load, and one full round action to fire. These actions may be done by several individuals. While eldritch energy normally does only half damage to objects, the force at which the round is expelled helps it to penetrate deep into its target before detonating. It isnt quite done but this is what I have. You may be able to use that on airships, you can change the flavor text as much as you like. I designed it based on the warlock's eldritch blast only with some hardness penetration.
ReverendCow 04-05-06, 11:33 AM	Defenses against air raids? *snip* I would say Feather Fall. Cover an entire city in a permanent area of Feather Fall and all those bombs you built that require a hard impact will have a hard time detonating. If you trigger the magic bombs with the 'alarm' spell, that won't be an issue. I was going to suggest the use of an AMF, but I think that an Alarm would be much more cost effective. I had an interesting idea for attacking airships: Are any of you familiar with Monte Cooks' Arcana Unearthed? If not, there's a race of "Sprytes" in there that stand about a foot tall and can fly fairly proficiently. Have a bunch of Sprytes or other small, flight capable, "soldiers" flying around while invisible attaching explosive charges to critical points of the airships.
Raven Dark 04-05-06, 01:10 PM	If you trigger the magic bombs with the 'alarm' spell, that won't be an issue. Maybe I just missed something obvious or misunderstood, but I don't see how an alarm spell would help at all. Could you please elaborate?
KublaiKhan 04-05-06, 01:52 PM	Maybe I just missed something obvious or misunderstood, but I don't see how an alarm spell would help at all. Could you please elaborate? Alarm is the standard trigger for proximity-based magic traps. Once the object gets within a certain distance of another object, the spell goes off. Combine that with a lead sheathe that comes off in flight, or a lead tube to drop from, and you've got a proximity-fused warhead.
Raven Dark 04-05-06, 02:36 PM	Alarm is the standard trigger for proximity-based magic traps. Once the object gets within a certain distance of another object, the spell goes off. Is that shown under the trap section in the DMG by any chance?
Lyinginbedmon 04-05-06, 02:47 PM	Is that shown under the trap section in the DMG by any chance? Actually, yes:Proximity This trigger activates the trap when a creature approaches within a certain distance of it. A proximity trigger differs from a location trigger in that the creature need not be standing in a particular square. Creatures that are flying can spring a trap with a proximity trigger but not one with a location trigger. Mechanical proximity triggers are extremely sensitive to the slightest change in the air. This makes them useful only in places such as crypts, where the air is unusually still. The proximity trigger used most often for magic device traps is the alarm spell. Unlike when the spell is cast, an alarm spell used as a trigger can have an area that’s no larger than the area the trap is meant to protect. Some magic device traps have special proximity triggers that activate only when certain kinds of creatures approach. For example, a detect good spell can serve as a proximity trigger on an evil altar, springing the attached trap only when someone of good alignment gets close enough to it.
KublaiKhan 04-05-06, 03:57 PM	To extend that, just set the proximity trigger for...oh, call it 10' or so. Depends on the spell load, really. Load 'em up with AoE spells, and have fun.
ReverendCow 04-05-06, 05:13 PM	How about a Prismatic Spray? Prismatic Spray Evocation Level: Sor/Wiz 7 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 60 ft. Area: Cone-shaped burst Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: See text Spell Resistance: Yes This spell causes seven shimmering, intertwined, multicolored beams of light to spray from your hand. Each beam has a different power. Creatures in the area of the spell with 8 HD or less are automatically blinded for 2d4 rounds. Every creature in the area is randomly struck by one or more beams, which have additional effects. 1d8 Color of Beam Effect 1 Red 20 points fire damage (Reflex half) 2 Orange 40 points acid damage (Reflex half) 3 Yellow 80 points electricity damage (Reflex half) 4 Green Poison (Kills; Fortitude partial, take 1d6 points of Con damage instead) 5 Blue Turned to stone (Fortitude negates) 6 Indigo Insane, as insanity spell (Will negates) 7 Violet Sent to another plane (Will negates) 8 Struck by two rays; roll twice more, ignoring any “8” results. Just rig it up on a ballista bolt with the Alarm spell, so that it goes off 60' above the ground, aimed strait down. What is the width measurement on the end of the cone, though? That ends up being the diameter of the circle when it's pointed straight down. This could also be a good spell to have rigged in some sort of a turret for use when strafing enemy airships. You just fly by and blast 'em. Chances are, you'll do enough damage that they're going to lose structural integrity and possibly crash. If they have an open deck on their airship, then there's a good chance that, if you blast the deck with it, you'll either outright kill the crew on the deck, or send em off to oblivion.
ekaj 04-05-06, 05:34 PM	I love you people! :D Eldritch Cannon: Eldritch cannon: Cost: (not sure) Damage: 6d8 (Ignores hardness 20) Critical: n/a Range increment: 150ft Typical crew: 3 Description: While seeking an effective weapon against dragons, the engineers (artificers mostly) of Mechan found that they could channel pure eldritch energy into a container. By puncturing one end of this container, a fraction of its power escapes and propels it at great speed in the opposite direction of the puncture. The weapon was nearly abandoned, however, due to lack of accuracy before a desperate smith put one into his chimney and fired (quite accurately) at a marauding red dragon, he managed this several times when dragons flew overhead, and this strategy was adapted with great success into a more portable form. The current model of this weapon consists of a sturdy tube with a hatch on one end and a release lever to propel the ordinance. The success of these weapons prompted many other forays into "Firearms" after the end of the War of the Dragonflight, including the now standard issue Alchemic rifle. This weapon functions nearly identically to a catapault, it requires one full round action to aim, one full round action to load, and one full round action to fire. These actions may be done by several individuals. While eldritch energy normally does only half damage to objects, the force at which the round is expelled helps it to penetrate deep into its target before detonating. It isnt quite done but this is what I have. You may be able to use that on airships, you can change the flavor text as much as you like. I designed it based on the warlock's eldritch blast only with some hardness penetration. If you trigger the magic bombs with the 'alarm' spell, that won't be an issue. I think that the best way to handle this would be the Eberron concept of the Elderitch Machine, which produces a bunch of horizontal Walls of Force all over the city when activated. These three ideas are a definite MUST! Having a 12' long peice of string at the end of a bomb, one end attached to the bomb, the other end attached to the airship. It will give the bomb enough clearance to pull a pin, detach the lead cover, and activate the alarm spell.
ReverendCow 04-05-06, 05:46 PM	These three ideas are a definite MUST! Having a 12' long peice of string at the end of a bomb, one end attached to the bomb, the other end attached to the airship. It will give the bomb enough clearance to pull a pin, detach the lead cover, and activate the alarm spell. Three? I only saw two. Why bother with the lead cover? If a bomb is counted as use-activated, then it isn't used until you drop it or fire it. The lead cover would be useful if someone tried to get into your airship and Dispel Magic or disjunction your bombs, but otherwise would be pointless. Besides, if the spell is only activated by the alarm spell, then you don't have to worry about it accidentally going off?
Lyinginbedmon 04-05-06, 05:53 PM	How about a Prismatic Spray? Just rig it up on a ballista bolt with the Alarm spell, so that it goes off 60' above the ground, aimed strait down. What is the width measurement on the end of the cone, though? That ends up being the diameter of the circle when it's pointed straight down. This could also be a good spell to have rigged in some sort of a turret for use when strafing enemy airships. You just fly by and blast 'em. Chances are, you'll do enough damage that they're going to lose structural integrity and possibly crash. If they have an open deck on their airship, then there's a good chance that, if you blast the deck with it, you'll either outright kill the crew on the deck, or send em off to oblivion. If you roll a 1, 2, 3, or 8, it's useful, otherwise you have to aim at either the airship or the crew and hope you get something useful. Moreso the crew than the ship, and if they know you're firing this thing at them they'll be less inclined to come up top
KublaiKhan 04-05-06, 05:56 PM	Three? I only saw two. Why bother with the lead cover? If a bomb is counted as use-activated, then it isn't used until you drop it or fire it. The lead cover would be useful if someone tried to get into your airship and Dispel Magic or disjunction your bombs, but otherwise would be pointless. Besides, if the spell is only activated by the alarm spell, then you don't have to worry about it accidentally going off? Elderitch cannon, alarm spell, elderitch machine. The lead covers are there for protection, and also because I saw the warheads as being armed upon creation, and loaded into the sheathe by the creator...I'm not sure, but I think making it "use activated" rather than treating it as just a magical trap that happens to fall out of an airship would be more expensive. That, and anyone tampering with 'em would be in for a nasty surprise, not to mention immunity to disjunctioning or dispelling--provided that your DM rules that lead blocks magic. .......interesting thought, that. Lead-lined armor providing SR?
ReverendCow 04-05-06, 07:52 PM	Elderitch cannon, alarm spell, elderitch machine. Ahhh, brainfart. The lead covers are there for protection, But isn't lead fairly soft and heavy? Wouldn't it be more practical to use mithral? and also because I saw the warheads as being armed upon creation, I have a friend who is an Ammo Troop in the Air Force, and he's told me that the bombs and missiles he builds aren't armed until they're ready for use on the ship. It's too unsafe to be toting around armed, ready-to-explode bombs. It makes sense from a safety viewpoint to not have them arm until they are either in-use, or about to be used. I'm not sure, but I think making it "use activated" rather than treating it as just a magical trap that happens to fall out of an airship would be more expensive. Why? Just say that the Alarm doesn't act as an "alarm" but merely a Contingency that affects spells, spell effects, and non-animate.....ummm....thingies. That, or you could come up with a spell of the same level that would function as an altimeter which would also trigger spells. I think using an Alarm would be much easier. That, and anyone tampering with 'em would be in for a nasty surprise, Yeah, but depending on the destructive power of your bombs, you could be in for as much of a surprise as the tamperer.
Lokiyn 04-05-06, 09:55 PM	Try using Thoqqua, When they Burrow they leave behind a tunnel 1 ft in Diameter. If its mind controled you can drop them and have them dig straight down In 11 hours they will have hit 25 miles deep, which if you're lucky will result in volcanic doom.
KublaiKhan 04-05-06, 11:47 PM	But isn't lead fairly soft and heavy? Wouldn't it be more practical to use mithral? A thin sheet of lead blocks most divination spells--and is also a damn sight cheaper. :P I have a friend who is an Ammo Troop in the Air Force, and he's told me that the bombs and missiles he builds aren't armed until they're ready for use on the ship. It's too unsafe to be toting around armed, ready-to-explode bombs. It makes sense from a safety viewpoint to not have them arm until they are either in-use, or about to be used. True, for real-life bombs with mechanical mechanisms....D&D bombs that use magic kinda have to have the spell already cast when it's dropped, if you're going by the magic-trap option...though magical traps can have a bypass equipped; just make sure the bypass condition [ Say, a brass ring around the tail fins or something ] is there to keep 'em harmless. Also, if they're in the bomb bay, by definition they're 'ready for use'...so they should be armed. ^^; Why? Just say that the Alarm doesn't act as an "alarm" but merely a Contingency that affects spells, spell effects, and non-animate.....ummm....thingies. That, or you could come up with a spell of the same level that would function as an altimeter which would also trigger spells. I think using an Alarm would be much easier. I'm using it as per the "Proximity Alarm" trigger for magic traps--essentially, each of the ballista bolts is a magic trap, with a proximity alarm. The problem with Contingency is that it's a Personal-only spell...so you can't use it for anything really good, other than retributive strikes or automagic healing. Yeah, but depending on the destructive power of your bombs, you could be in for as much of a surprise as the tamperer. Have a policy in place--nobody goes into the bomb bay while in flight, but the bombardier. Anyone who has a reason to touch the bombs knows what they do and how, and anyone else has no business touching 'em. 'pity that good ol' Nitro hasn't been invented yet....
Eleril 04-06-06, 01:10 AM	Simple, (relativily) cheap bombs can be made with... metal, decently well sealed barrels of water. Before you dump them, have a mage use fabricate to seperate the hydrogen from the oxygen. You now have barrels full of rocket fuel that, when they hit, should create enough of a spark to go boom in a big way.
Spiderman7789 04-06-06, 01:50 AM	Originally posted by Ekaj Some of you are going to hate me... I am a fan of the large scale battles. These don't happen too often in DnD because of two things. 1) Spellcasters. 2) Dragons. A friend of mine was so wonderfully kind to point out that these things decimate legions of troops and make large scale warfare un reasonable. Yay. Solution #1: Eliminate spellcasters from battle. Arcane spellcasters anyway. AoE spells and the like do too much damage. How to do this without eliminating magic from an already heavy magic campaign? Easy. Wizards at war... with each other. No arcane spellcaster will join a war against another country. Due to the fact that the Orders are politically balanced and fear a war with eachother will eliminate their orders alltogether. Or something like that. However, you can still buy magic items and things, and hire them to cast spells, ect. I would be stupid to remove divine spellcasters from war. So anything magic is still legal. As long as you are BUYING it. Solution #2: As for dragons, who do you think are controling things behind the scenes? Engaging in open warfare will violate some sort of draconic treaty or blow their cover. So hiring a spellcaster to cast armagedon on a city or country is considered an act of war. But selling bombers to both sides is legal. So is hiring them to adventure and find an artifact, ect. Sorry, folks. But this is a campaign setting issue that came up late in creation. The good news is I have to rethink the airships themselves. I need to mass produce them, cheaper, and better quality. The dwarven "U-Boat" is all ready to test out. by the way... Torpedoes? All power sources are magic, before anyone asks. No gunpowder. Magical weapons are best for the guns, ect, on board the airships. Call it a personel quirk. 1. Removing spellcasters from a battlefield is not the solution. In fact one must think of this on a more global and realistic level. There isn't going to be a bunch of high level characters running around blowing up low-level cannon fodder (Sorry guys High level characters have more important things to do). In a typical game world it would be a good guess to say that there are only a select few characters who ever make it beyond say 10th level. this is mainly due to the fact that the big bad baddies of the world like to remain as such and would most likely remove such trouble makers (good or evil) from the world should they begin to threaten them. Wars in a D&D campaign are fought with low-level characters being led by, usually, 5th maybe 7th level characters, that being said a 7th lvl spellcaster will still be wary of throwing around too many fireballs into the opposing forces due to the attention he would draw to himself and his platoon. Its okay to fight platoon vs. platoon, but platoon vs. legions isn't fun. Also in a standard campaign world spell casters only makeup something like 7% of the known population so thats never a problem. 2. Keeping the oldest dragons out of a war is definatly a good thing but a charismatic leader should still be able to get the help of some younger dragons in their armies. I mean using the victory points system in Heroes of Battle make the use of dragons a good tool but definatly not something that will swing the tide of battle. Battles are won by leaders who use sound tactics not who has the best troops (look at Romel in WWII). 3. The Airships in Eberron are a great start for typical battles, they are sturdy and efficient. And being able to mass produce ships is an expensive endeavour no matter what u do. remember they gotta fly. Your best bet would be to hire a bunch of Artificers and have them all take the Artisan feats and have them enchant the ships with air elementals. 4. How can u possibly have the Eldritch Cannon without the traditional gunpowder cannon? I mean come on, that eliminates so many options and makes things so much more difficult. Using the field gun in Dragon #321 for example, it costs 2500gp and fires a 6d6 cannon ball in a 500ft long x 5ft wide line. not overly powerful but effective, and cheaper than the eldritch cannon. You could even make it +1 Thundering field gun to get a d8 that bypasses hardness in objects, for less than 11,000 gp. Remember ppl we're killing commoners here, U dont need a lot, just really cool ways to do it. Hope this helps :D :D :D :D
KublaiKhan 04-06-06, 02:11 AM	Originally posted by Ekaj 1. Removing spellcasters from a battlefield is not the solution. In fact one must think of this on a more global and realistic level. There isn't going to be a bunch of high level characters running around blowing up low-level cannon fodder (Sorry guys High level characters have more important things to do). In a typical game world it would be a good guess to say that there are only a select few characters who ever make it beyond say 10th level. this is mainly due to the fact that the big bad baddies of the world like to remain as such and would most likely remove such trouble makers (good or evil) from the world should they begin to threaten them. I concur that spellcasters aren't quite as much of a threat. Besides, what army unit is going to go out without a medic? If there's a bunch of spellcasters lobbing magic around, there will be an equal number of dispel-magic and AMF casters wandering around preventing that. Could get pretty flashy, actually, and pretty fun to watch. Wars in a D&D campaign are fought with low-level characters being led by, usually, 5th maybe 7th level characters, that being said a 7th lvl spellcaster will still be wary of throwing around too many fireballs into the opposing forces due to the attention he would draw to himself and his platoon. Its okay to fight platoon vs. platoon, but platoon vs. legions isn't fun. Also in a standard campaign world spell casters only makeup something like 7% of the known population so thats never a problem. If that. Depends heavily on the setting. 2. Keeping the oldest dragons out of a war is definatly a good thing but a charismatic leader should still be able to get the help of some younger dragons in their armies. I mean using the victory points system in Heroes of Battle make the use of dragons a good tool but definatly not something that will swing the tide of battle. Battles are won by leaders who use sound tactics not who has the best troops (look at Romel in WWII). Keeping them out? They've probably been the ones manipulating things behind the scenes to *cause* the little humans to start their petty wars, to keep their attention on each other and not notice the big ancient dragon. 3. The Airships in Eberron are a great start for typical battles, they are sturdy and efficient. And being able to mass produce ships is an expensive endeavour no matter what u do. remember they gotta fly. Your best bet would be to hire a bunch of Artificers and have them all take the Artisan feats and have them enchant the ships with air elementals. Wars aren't ever cheap. 4. How can u possibly have the Eldritch Cannon without the traditional gunpowder cannon? I mean come on, that eliminates so many options and makes things so much more difficult. Using the field gun in Dragon #321 for example, it costs 2500gp and fires a 6d6 cannon ball in a 500ft long x 5ft wide line. not overly powerful but effective, and cheaper than the eldritch cannon. You could even make it +1 Thundering field gun to get a d8 that bypasses hardness in objects, for less than 11,000 gp. Because gunpowder takes the fun out of things. This is D&D; if there's a magic way to do things, it's generally going to be cheaper and easier to find a wizard to do that than to find a purely nonmagical method of doing things. [ Besides....I've never actually read a Dragon magazine, so I have no idea what you're talking about. ] Remember ppl we're killing commoners here, U dont need a lot, just really cool ways to do it. Hope this helps :D :D :D :D Actually, likely, bands of low-level warriors led by low to mid level fighters, with spellcasters mixed in. Depends heavily on campaign setting, though.
Norsesmithy 04-06-06, 11:11 AM	Speaking of magic, wouldn't high level spell casters be on both sides? So tactically they should nullify each other, using sheilds and dispells to protect their side, in addition to attack spells. Just because you can disperse firey death at range, that doesn't make troops obsolete, just bloodier warfare.
Spiderman7789 04-06-06, 11:27 AM	I completely agree Norsesmithy And thanks KublaiKhan. the thing for me is that i dont feel that ne thing magical comes about unless its to improve something mundane. Take Melf's acid arrow for example. It came after the invention of the arrow. This is how i would see the evolution of the Eldritch Cannon. And gunpowder doesn't take the Fantasy out of a D&D game it adds to it. Now im not saying go fully automatic weapons but use the same methods used in games like final fantasy tactics, where the engineer guy uses guns. He's not overly powerful just because of the gun. Like anything else its how u use him. Using hand guns the same way as crossbows is how i like to implement them in my games, there is hardly ne way a PC will get off the same amount of shots that say someone with a bow might get, because i only use single-shot weaponry. the field gun in dragon #321 is basically a light cannon and works the same way. it requires 3 ppl to man and allows a DC 15 reflex save to avoid the cannonball ( which deals 6d6 bludgeoning). intended to kill low level troops but not high level. simple yet effective. Thanks guys
Subedei 04-06-06, 02:05 PM	Keep in mind this is Eberron we're talking about so a few things are going to be true that we need to take note of. 1) PC classes are more rare than usual, PC spellcasting classes are incredibly rare. Most spellcasters in the Last War were supporting other troops, NPC class spellcasters were frontline because Wizards, Sorcerers, Artificers, Clerics and the like were far too valuable to lose no matter how many troops they take down with them. 2) No NPC is higher than level 12 in a PC class or 13 with NPC class levels. There are about four or five exceptions to this rule and one of them's a tree, the other's a little girl who loses her powers if she leaves the immediate area around the silver flame and the others are all evil masterminds who don't work openly. Oh yeah, and there's that really high level commoner in sharn. Most of the NPCs who are around level 12 are not primary spellcasters. I'd say Cannith's elite (above level 10) are about a dozen in number giving them limited access to 7th level wizard spells. 3) Dragons fighting alongside humans in a human war? HAH! The only dragons who are even on Khorvaire are quite young and spend their time in human form. That is, aside from those corrupted guardians of ancient ruins and whatnot but it's not like they're going to get involved either. The chamber would NEVER work for humanoids, although I can see them deciding the humanoids of gotten out of hand and trying to wipe us all out. 4) The population density of Khorvaire is quite high by D&D campaign setting standards. The population of the entire continent is about 21 million after a devestating war the equal of WWI and various natural disasters. That's a lot of people but the vast majority of them are commoners and experts. It's logical to say when you run a 1st level commoner through training he becomes a 1st level warrior (without this transition you have people being born proficient with all martial weapons and other such silliness) and that is what the majority of armies with no field experience are composed of. So you've got an army of 500,000 low level fighter/warriors(avg 2nd lvl), 50 warmages(avg 4th), 12 wizards(avg 7th), 8 bards (avg 5th). How big of an impact are those spellcasters actually going to have on a battle line that stretches for 50 miles? Not very much though I'm sure they'll be important in key areas. Much more important however, will be the 2,000 or so experts with Use Magic Device wielding 1st level wands of magic missile(1.5 million gp total) and the 100 or so Cannith artificers that supply them. Arming them all with 3rd level wands of fireball would cost 6.75 million gp so suppose that's quite possible as well. So a 3rd level expert has 6 ranks, skill focus and a modifier of 1 giving him +10 and thus need to roll a 13 to activate this wand. So 2,000 experts fire and 35% of their wands go off and half thier targets save against the spell. The average damage is 10 and 5 with a save, neither will kill a 2nd level warrior alone in less than 2-3 shots. Each successful shot costs you 200gp, enough to hire, train and equip a mundane soldier and they spend at least twice this much to kill him. It's looking like a really bad investment at this point but it does have a 20' radius so you could probably catch 6-8 soldiers if they were in intelligent formations or 16 if they're tightly packed. Not bad, certainly quite dangerous but it's not like you can have a whole army of these guys. There's a very limited number of wands/day that can actually be produced, in our case 33/day. Additionally, I'm just going to assume it's more expensive to train these troops than a soldier and they still need protective equipment like anyone else. Given this I really don't think AoE spells are a problem at all.
Subedei 04-06-06, 02:18 PM	For the airship Acidic Fire bombs seem excellent for carpet bombing. One flask costs 10 gp to create and deals 2d4 damage in the center and 2 to everything around it meaning if you space them 5' appart (and assuming they actually land 5' appart) each square would take 2d4+16 damage. An average of 20 damage to each square is pretty damn good for 10gp/5' square and could be increased if you want to increase the density of bombs dropped. If you've got the money use a 3 lbs warhead attached to a 10 lbs lead weight for 6d4+48 damage to each square for 30gp/square. One airship can cover say an 80' wide and say the bomb bay is 40' thick and 10' tall so we can stack them 50 bombs deep. 16x10x50=8,000 bombs for 240,000gp covering an area 16 squares wide and 500 squares long with 60 damage. Now that is going to devastate an army though I doubt it'd be effective against anything but wooden buildings. Against a hard target just drop 100lbs stones from 1,000'.
KublaiKhan 04-06-06, 02:49 PM	Now the hard part is actually making something that can spread this across 100'+ of area with some degree of accuracy. Look back a couple pages for Norden's Wonderous Bombsight, especially created to solve just that problem. :D
ReverendCow 04-06-06, 03:34 PM	A thin sheet of lead blocks most divination spells--and is also a damn sight cheaper. :P Yeah, but why would you worry so much about people divining your bombs? Also, if they're in the bomb bay, by definition they're 'ready for use'...so they should be armed. ^^; Yeah, but there is a difference between "ready for use," and "in use." If you do go the rought of "ready for use," then you can't logically price them as "use-activated." I'm using it as per the "Proximity Alarm" trigger for magic traps--essentially, each of the ballista bolts is a magic trap, with a proximity alarm. But it's not really a trap. Traps require the target to come within a certain area to trigger. For this, you're sending the area to the target. The problem with Contingency is that it's a Personal-only spell...so you can't use it for anything really good, I realise that, I was just using it as an example. It functions basically the same as an Alarm, though, just for different targets. For example: Condition A triggers Reaction B. Have a policy in place--nobody goes into the bomb bay while in flight, but the bombardier. Anyone who has a reason to touch the bombs knows what they do and how, and anyone else has no business touching 'em. It's been my distinct impression that saboteurs and other misc. enemy warriors care little for your policies...
KublaiKhan 04-07-06, 10:00 AM	Yeah, but why would you worry so much about people divining your bombs? It's the old fly-the-enemy's-colours-to-sneak-up-close trick. Keep in mind, it also blocks "detect magic"....so if you've got a guard looking up, and all of a sudden he sees OMG HUGE MAGIC AURA in a part of your airship that has no use being magical.... Yeah, but there is a difference between "ready for use," and "in use." If you do go the rought of "ready for use," then you can't logically price them as "use-activated." I think we're speaking a bit at cross-purposes here. But it's not really a trap. Traps require the target to come within a certain area to trigger. For this, you're sending the area to the target. Actually, it is a workable model--the trap doesn't know if it's moving or not; all it knows is that something's come within the area it's assigned to 'protect'. That the thing that came within that area happens to be the ground is irrelevant, really. See, you're seeing the ballista bolt as moving, and the rest of the world as staying still...but from the point of view of the alarm spell, the bolt's staying still, and it's the rest of the world that's moving. Magic traps don't *have* to be stationary--they just usually are. I realise that, I was just using it as an example. It functions basically the same as an Alarm, though, just for different targets. For example: Condition A triggers Reaction B. So just use Alarm. Besides, it's free with the cost of the trap. For a Fireball ballista bolt trap, the costs would be: +50 gp × caster level × spell level and +4 XP × caster level × spell level +50 gp x 5 x 3 = 750 gp +4 xp x 5 x 3 = 60 xp Material component cost is negligable [ Ball of sulphur and guano ], so that one's not going to be an issue. There's no XP cost for fireball, either. Set the condition on the alarm spell [ which is free for a PC building this ] to "10'", and you have a fireball that goes off when the bolt gets to 10' above the ground. It's been my distinct impression that saboteurs and other misc. enemy warriors care little for your policies... True. This is why you have guards. Besides, if you're a PC, this setup gives all sorts of fun 'bomb squad' options. And as it counts as a magic trap, it really gives rogues a way to shine--they can defuse it.
ReverendCow 04-07-06, 10:36 AM	It's the old fly-the-enemy's-colours-to-sneak-up-close trick. Keep in mind, it also blocks "detect magic"....so if you've got a guard looking up, and all of a sudden he sees OMG HUGE MAGIC AURA in a part of your airship that has no use being magical.... Yeah, but doesn't Detect Magic have a maximum range? Besides, most ships are going to be magical, in and of themselves, so the glow from the ship will be enough to at least mask the glow of the bombs. Actually, it is a workable model--the trap doesn't know if it's moving or not; all it knows is that something's come within the area it's assigned to 'protect'. That the thing that came within that area happens to be the ground is irrelevant, really. Fair point. How do you price magical traps? Is it any cheaper than going the "use-activated magical item"-route? True. This is why you have guards. Besides, if you're a PC, this setup gives all sorts of fun 'bomb squad' options. And as it counts as a magic trap, it really gives rogues a way to shine--they can defuse it. True, but "what's good for the gander is good for the goose." I'm a bit more worried about DM "abuse" of this. :P
KublaiKhan 04-07-06, 11:38 AM	Yeah, but doesn't Detect Magic have a maximum range? Besides, most ships are going to be magical, in and of themselves, so the glow from the ship will be enough to at least mask the glow of the bombs. 60' nominally. I think you can extend that. Fair point. How do you price magical traps? Is it any cheaper than going the "use-activated magical item"-route? It's in the DMG, and the price I gave before works for any fireball trap. True, but "what's good for the gander is good for the goose." I'm a bit more worried about DM "abuse" of this. :P I'd be worried if the DM *didn't* "abuse" this. Shows a lack of creativity. Besides, every war campaign should have some espionage going on....it's the perfect kind of adventure for a party that's not directly involved with the army.
KublaiKhan 04-10-06, 10:27 AM	I got a new poster today, for the Global Hawk thingy--y'know, that unmanned recon vehicle. It gave me an idea-- Iron Hawk Large Construct Hit Dice: xd10 [ not sure how many to use... ] Initiative: +5 Speed: Fly 60 ft [ good ] Armor Class: 25 [ +5 dex, +10 natural ] touch 15 flatfooted 20 Attack: By Alchemical Payload, [ +5 dex +BAB to hit ] Full Attack: -- Space/Reach: 10 ft/-- Special Attacks: Alchemical Payload Special Qualities: Construct traits, damage reduction 15/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to magic, low-light vision, Eye in the Sky, Call Home Saves: TBD Abilities: STR 10 / Dex 20 / Con -- / Int -- / Wis 20 / Cha 1 Skills: -- Feats: -- Environment: Any [ aerial ] Organization: Solitary, Squadron [ 2-5 ] CR: [ I haven't had my coffee yet ] Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: By HD LA: -- The Iron Hawk was created by the secretive wizard Nor'thrup Skunkwerks for a kingdom concerned about war preparations that another kingdom claimed to be making. An excellent spy, the Iron Hawk is able to patrol the skies indefinitely, and even drop an alchemical payload if required to. Immunity to Magic (Ex) An iron hawk is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below. A magical attack that deals acid damage slows an iron hawk (as the slow spell) for 3 rounds, with no saving throw. A magical attack that deals electricity damage breaks any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for each 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the iron hawk to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. The iron hawk gets no saving throw vs. electricity effects. An iron hawk is affected normally by rust attacks, such as that of a rust monster or a rusting grasp spell. Eye in the Sky (ex) An iron hawk is not affected by nonmagical fogs or clouds, and can see normally under such conditions. An iron hawk has a +10 racial bonus to spot checks. Call Home (sp) The iron hawk is created with an iron crown. The wearer of the iron crown is in telepathic contact with the iron hawk while wearing it, and may issue orders to it, as well as see what the iron hawk is capable of seeing. The wearer of the crown can use either the iron hawk's spot bonuses or his own, whichever is higher. Construction The iron hawk's body is created from 800 pounds of mithril and 100 pounds of iron, smelted with rare tinctures, admixtures, etc., costing at least 10,000 gp. Assembling the body requires at least a DC 20 Craft[armorsmithing or weaponsmithing] check, and the builder must have at least 5 ranks in Profession: Piloting. CL ?th; Craft Construct, fly, geas/quest, limited wish, clairvoyance
ReverendCow 04-10-06, 10:38 AM	That's pretty cool. I'd also build a variation that could drop the previously mentioned bombs instead of the alchemical substances. Then, I'd build a fleet of both types as quick attack drones. Here's an idea: A psion learns how to make these guys. Said psion figures out a way to connect two Iron Hawks to one crown whilst imbuing the crown with the psionic power Schism to allow both Iron Hawks to be controlled at once. Since the Schism would take effect on anyone who put the crown on, you could have ten "pilots" controlling a total of twenty Iron Hawks. Going further, you could strap a spell turret to one of these blokes and have them fly low, strafing the target area.
KublaiKhan 04-10-06, 10:49 AM	I was vaguely considering some kind of variant for Air to Air combat before realizing that warlocks with Fell Flight would probably work better...though conceivably, you could stick a kobold with a crossbow in one of 'em.
IaijutsuMaster#1 04-11-06, 12:33 AM	If you want to do some serious death dealing, send an 11th level wizard with major creation and a contingincied teleport set to go off when he finishes casting the major creation. Now, have the wizard cast major creation to create a supercritical mass of plutonium, in this case, an 11cu ft sphere. The teleport will activate and the supercritical mass of plutonium will explode. Of course, this doesn't work if you want to keep any sort of good PR, but you will take out a metropolis with ease. And for a way to get the wizard into the presumably enemy city, either use teleport or have him feather fall or fly invisibly into the city from an airship.
Lokiyn 04-11-06, 02:05 AM	If you want to do some serious death dealing, send an 11th level wizard with major creation and a contingincied teleport set to go off when he finishes casting the major creation. Now, have the wizard cast major creation to create a supercritical mass of plutonium, in this case, an 11cu ft sphere. The teleport will activate and the supercritical mass of plutonium will explode. Of course, this doesn't work if you want to keep any sort of good PR, but you will take out a metropolis with ease. And for a way to get the wizard into the presumably enemy city, either use teleport or have him feather fall or fly invisibly into the city from an airship. Doesn't work, Material Component A tiny piece of matter of the same sort of item you plan to create with minor creation. The new exploding ectoptic constructs make marvelous bomb. Just spawn and drop for 20d6 (at level 17) points of damage on impact.
IaijutsuMaster#1 04-11-06, 02:24 AM	Oops, missed that. You can still make it work, just use uranium. If you can't mine it normally, use fabricate to get a tiny bit out of a mountain. 11 cubic feet of U235 will still blow quite a bit of stuff up. Besides, that "tiny bit of material" has no set price, so it's assumed to be in your spellpouch. It's a rediculous stretch of logic, but that's how the Rules are Written. From the SRD "Spell Component Pouch A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch." Yes, your spell component pouch is assumed to have a bit of Plutonium in it somewhere.
Lyinginbedmon 04-11-06, 05:51 AM	Oops, missed that. You can still make it work, just use uranium. If you can't mine it normally, use fabricate to get a tiny bit out of a mountain. 11 cubic feet of U235 will still blow quite a bit of stuff up. Besides, that "tiny bit of material" has no set price, so it's assumed to be in your spellpouch. It's a rediculous stretch of logic, but that's how the Rules are Written. From the SRD "Spell Component Pouch A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch." Yes, your spell component pouch is assumed to have a bit of Plutonium in it somewhere.I realise that this thread is stretching things already, but no sane DM would ever let it work!
IaijutsuMaster#1 04-11-06, 07:19 AM	No insane DM would allow this, either. But, because WotC has limited time and manpower for playtesting, opposed to a few million intelligent, creative players with waay too much time on their hands, we get things that were never imagined when the rules were written. In addition, if your DM tries to make it an RP restriction rather than banning it with a house rule, just have your party cleric use commune to ask his/her deity to tell him of a metal that *insert exact description of whatever fissile material suits your fancy*. Of course, at this point, a sane DM will smack you or, if s/he is a pacifist, just hoserule fissile materials out of the scope of the creation spells. I still have to say that the 2gp spell component pouch is the cheapest extradimensional space/magical creation thingy, I mean a bag that's light enough for a wimpy 8 str mage to carry on his belt and creates limitless bat guano, sulfer, plutonium, potassium, etc. Regardless, any thread like this has to assume a complacent DM who is perfectly Ok with you nuking waterdeep, and whatever other cities or people you hate *ahem*Elminster*ahem*, otherwise, none of this stuff really works.
KublaiKhan 04-11-06, 09:24 AM	This assumes, of course, that the campaign world *has* plutonium or uranium. Does Eberron have any? The only radioactive material I've ever heard of in a D&D setting was the 'sickstone' in the Underdark.
ElfyoftheRoninElite 04-11-06, 09:24 AM	where is this test? :( and according to some test or other: Ability Scores: Str 12, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 15, Wis 17, Cha 16 and I'm a Neutral Good Elf Ranger/Cleric
chimp man 04-11-06, 10:03 AM	heres 2 simple tactics 1 go to a very well populated layer of hell and advertise "free special ops training" and wait for a pit fiend to acecpt and have your airship let his soldiers out 20 lemers 10 imps 5 bearded devils 2 chain devils 1 hellcat 2 erinyes 3 bone devils 2 barbed devils 2 ice devils 1 cornugon 1 pit fiend (cookie to any one who can figure out what number 10 is gets a :cookie: ) 2 get one eldar fire elamental and stick it in a 2000 pound rock filled with fire evocation spells and drop from maximum altitude BOOM!!!
ReverendCow 04-11-06, 02:04 PM	I think that nuclear weapons are a bit outside the scope of the game. Granted, nuking a metropolis would be pretty cool. chimp man> No. Absolutely not. :uh-huh: :looloo: :nonono:
Lyinginbedmon 04-11-06, 03:04 PM	I think that nuclear weapons are a bit outside the scope of the game. Granted, nuking a metropolis would be pretty cool. Tell it to the victims. There's no fun in annihilating defenseless prey, nor is there any chivalry or honour
KublaiKhan 04-11-06, 04:31 PM	I must agree that nukes really have no place in D&D. Dropping a bag of holding into a portable hole, though.... Dimensional rifting is fun!
ReverendCow 04-11-06, 05:07 PM	Tell it to the victims. That's exactly what the nuke does. :evillaugh There's no fun in annihilating defenseless prey Some would beg to differ. nor is there any chivalry or honour Who ever said there was meant to be any? Dropping a bag of holding into a portable hole, though.... Dimensional rifting is fun! Check out the Planar Vanguard PrC. It has a nifty ability that has similar results, but doesn't incur the loss of perfectly good magic items.
Ruinous 04-11-06, 06:34 PM	*subscribing to thread*
KublaiKhan 04-11-06, 06:39 PM	Check out the Planar Vanguard PrC. It has a nifty ability that has similar results, but doesn't incur the loss of perfectly good magic items. Ooh. That sounds like a lot of fun. I learned the other day that a Decanter of Endless Water, on Geyser, would produce half a million gallons of water per day. Besiege the city. Dam up a river in the mountains. Apply decanter liberally. Open up the dam at intervals. Presto, hydro-hammer.
ReverendCow 04-11-06, 08:03 PM	Ooh. That sounds like a lot of fun. Yes, yes it does. I learned the other day that a Decanter of Endless Water, on Geyser, would produce half a million gallons of water per day. Besiege the city. Dam up a river in the mountains. Apply decanter liberally. Open up the dam at intervals. Presto, hydro-hammer. I like this idea. Get a couple of Decanters. They're only 9,000gp each. Use Stone Shape to build your dam. Get a cleric (of what? 6th level?) to make a use-activated magic item for you that can cast Stone Shape for you. It'd be 18,000gp, right? Snap up your dam, fill with water. Bickety-bam, watery destruction twice as fast, all for only 36,000gp. That's assuming two Decanters and the Stone Shape item.
KublaiKhan 04-11-06, 10:31 PM	This would work marvels, by the way, for undead destruction/healing: sovereign-glue an always-on bless-water effect [ or unholy bless water effect ] to the end of the decanter. Bingo, it's the Holy Firehose [ or unholy firehose ]. So, depending on how many of those you've got, you've got HolyWater Lake....to conveniently dump down on the nearest undead settlement. Those who have studied forest fires will figure out the next logical step, of course.
ReverendCow 04-11-06, 11:00 PM	This would work marvels, by the way, for undead destruction/healing: sovereign-glue an always-on bless-water effect [ or unholy bless water effect ] to the end of the decanter. Bingo, it's the Holy Firehose [ or unholy firehose ]. So, depending on how many of those you've got, you've got HolyWater Lake....to conveniently dump down on the nearest undead settlement. You could also use this as a method of clearing out a dungeon. Use Stone Shape to form a wall over the entrance of the dungeon, but form the wall AROUND the decanters, the output of said decanters facing into the dungeon. Speak the command word(s), and wait a couple of days. Most subterranean areas have natural fissures into even lower areas that the dungeon could, presumably, drain into. But not before the dungeons inhabitants drowned. Those who have studied forest fires will figure out the next logical step, of course. But isn't it better to make forest fires worse? Wait, depending on your point of view, it could be "better." *grins in the manner of a little green alien with a robot-dog*
KublaiKhan 04-11-06, 11:05 PM	I was more referring to those aircraft that are used to fight forest fires by dipping into lakes and picking up vast quantities of water....
ReverendCow 04-11-06, 11:16 PM	I was more referring to those aircraft that are used to fight forest fires by dipping into lakes and picking up vast quantities of water.... Ahhhh. I'd prefer to get some fire-producing something-or-other and make them fires "better." :mage: :evillaugh :devil:
KublaiKhan 04-11-06, 11:35 PM	That's what the unholy version is for, for when you've got a town full of undead.
ReverendCow 04-11-06, 11:43 PM	Refresh my memory, what does Unholy Water do? How about this: Have a ballista bolt-bomb, rigged with an Alarm (rigged to go off at about 100ft) that triggers a Magic Mouth that speaks the command word on a Decanter of (Un)Holy Water. The thing is, the ballista bolt-bomb would be rigged with special tubes and spouts that would mist-ify the water so that it would come down on a large area, say a 50 ft cube, maybe doing damage (or healing) of 1d4/5ft square of undead.
codexia 04-12-06, 12:29 AM	Forgive me if i'm repeating somebody, I didn't go through the entire thread. If you have a caster to spare and you want a reeeeaaaaly big bomb, you could always drop Apocolypse from the Sky.
ReverendCow 04-12-06, 12:45 AM	Good idea, but yes, it was already mentioned. I would seriously suggest going back and reading the whole thread if you get the chance. There've been some really excellent ideas.
codexia 04-12-06, 01:08 AM	I figured there were some good ones, unfortunately, I have some skimming time, but then its time for work. I may come back later and re-read it. Another suggesstion, that may not have been done. And forgive me, I don't know all the spell names, since I've never played a full caster (I prefer paladin/ranger type casters, or War Mage's/other specialized ones) Now, this would cost a small fortunte, but imagine the damage. Shrink down 30 or 40 Daarn's Instant Fortresses and drop them all from your airship at once along with one of those animated mouths thats set to say a command word after X seconds to return them to full size. It's raining fortresses :D I do need to say, even if it's not that practical, it's a very funny image that's coming to mind. [edit] And after reading up a couple posts, I see i'm not the first to use Magic Mouth (which is apparently what the spell is called)
ReverendCow 04-12-06, 01:15 AM	Yeah, those Daerns' Instant Fortresses are pretty pricey. "A" for effort, though. Hmmm, is there a way that you could actually transport in a real fortress to drop on people? If that's too powerful, how about a decent sized house? If not that, then a outhouse, maybe?
codexia 04-12-06, 01:19 AM	Ew, I would rather be hit by a castle then an outhouse =/ I suppose just dropping necklaces of fireballs over the side of the airship has been said already, to obvious :) *sigh* I have a great idea for torpedo's and submarine's (that my DM actually let me use since I did the work for coming up with it) for the D&D world, but dropping bombs from flying ships I never thought of before...
KublaiKhan 04-12-06, 01:22 AM	Unholy water is the negative-energy version of holy-water. It heals undead.
ReverendCow 04-12-06, 01:12 PM	Unholy water is the negative-energy version of holy-water. It heals undead. I got to thinking as much as I typed that post, and just forgot to take out the question. So, what'd you think of the "Sprayer-Bomb" I mentioned above?
Ruinous 04-12-06, 01:28 PM	Personaly i feel the flaming barrel of oil dropped from an airship has the necersarry feel of an admittedly small scale WW2 incediary bombing run, and i'm sure someone could make up some balanced rules on firestorms to add that little bit of spice to the idea.
Raven Dark 04-12-06, 01:37 PM	Unholy water is the negative-energy version of holy-water. It heals undead. Does it actually say that in the description of unholy water? I don't have the rules with me, but I just don't see unholy water healing undead any more than holy water heals the living.
Lyinginbedmon 04-12-06, 02:01 PM	Does it actually say that in the description of unholy water? I don't have the rules with me, but I just don't see unholy water healing undead any more than holy water heals the living. Unholy water damages good outsiders the way holy water damages undead and evil outsiders.No, it doesn't heal undead, but it'll do a number on Celestia
KublaiKhan 04-12-06, 02:25 PM	I got to thinking as much as I typed that post, and just forgot to take out the question. So, what'd you think of the "Sprayer-Bomb" I mentioned above? Ooh, sounds neat--but I'd modify it slightly: Strap it to the back, and let 'er rip, on Geyser. Not only is it hosing down the place, but you've got a dangerous flying projectile rocketing around.
forrestfire15 04-12-06, 03:05 PM	put a scroll of widened mudslide (stormwrack p.119) in a Lemul's Pheonix an walla, you have a 80ft. spread of 10ft. deep mud. Another evil thought is to, in adittion to the mudslide scroll, a scroll of widened ice storm is an 80ft. radious cilinder of 5d6 cold damage to anyone left standing. :devil: Lemuel's Phoenix [ Bear with me; I'm at work, and have none of my books with me ] Lemuel's Phoenix is a 6' long metallic cylinder, styled after a phoenix stooped in a dive. It contains a hollow chamber, treated with alchemical preparations, that can be filled with any alchemical substance that one cares to name [ up to 20 gallons ]. Alternatively, it can fit five staves, ten wands, or ten scrolls. After it has been filled, the device may be pointed towards any target within the line of sight. When activated, it will fly straight at the target designated, detonating when it hits an object head-on, or when it reaches the designated point. Upon detonation, it will disperse an alchemical load in a radius of 5'/gallon, or activate all charges in a wand or stave [ in a random direction ], or activate any scrolls [ again, in a random direction ]. Detonation destroys Lemuel's Phoenix utterly. Faint evocation, moderate transmutation, faint divination. CL [ whatever it takes to cast the highest level spell here ]. Craft Wonderous Item, Fly, Read Magic, Fireball, True Strike. Price: [ Don't have my books, so I can't calculate this ].
KublaiKhan 04-13-06, 02:13 AM	Well, really, you could put a scroll of anything you wanted in there...even Wish, if it floats your boat. Hrmm...I wonder if the Iron Hawk could carry a Lemuel's Phoenix....
forrestfire15 04-13-06, 01:10 PM	you could drop a bunch of blast discs. they are 900 a piece, deal 5d6 fire in a 10ft spread and can be set to blow if anything comes into the square they are in or they can be time bombe up to 10 rounds.
KublaiKhan 04-13-06, 05:05 PM	you could drop a bunch of blast discs. they are 900 a piece, deal 5d6 fire in a 10ft spread and can be set to blow if anything comes into the square they are in or they can be time bombe up to 10 rounds. What are these from? Though the Glyph of Warding has already been mentioned a few pages back... Today's citybusting idea: The Random Wall of Force Generator. Just randomly cast Walls of Force all over the place in the city, and then bomb at will. The defenders/firemen will have a hell of a time responding effectively when there's a bunch of impermeable barriers all over.
Lyinginbedmon 04-13-06, 05:28 PM	Blast Discs are from Heroes of Battle, page 131
ReverendCow 04-13-06, 06:01 PM	Today's citybusting idea: The Random Wall of Force Generator. Just randomly cast Walls of Force all over the place in the city, and then bomb at will. The defenders/firemen will have a hell of a time responding effectively when there's a bunch of impermeable barriers all over. OOOOH! That's deeliciouslee eevil. How about this: The Random Prismatic Wall Generator!
KublaiKhan 04-13-06, 06:12 PM	OOOOH! That's deeliciouslee eevil. How about this: The Random Prismatic Wall Generator! Prismatic walls are fairly obvious bad mojo; the advantage of a wall of force is that in the smoke and fog of a battle, you get to see the various defenders fail their spot checks and run into them full-tilt.
Lyinginbedmon 04-13-06, 06:20 PM	So it's comedy VS clarity. Great, we now have Buggy the flying Pirate Clown :D
KublaiKhan 04-13-06, 07:02 PM	So it's comedy VS clarity. Great, we now have Buggy the flying Pirate Clown :D Hey, for the record, I test as a Loonie. Where do you think I get these ideas? And I'm a DM, too. I had to nerf the Ring of Theme Song Generation that the cleric bought to maintain party peace...
ReverendCow 04-13-06, 07:39 PM	Prismatic walls are fairly obvious bad mojo; the advantage of a wall of force is that in the smoke and fog of a battle, you get to see the various defenders fail their spot checks and run into them full-tilt. Oh, alright. How about this, then: Rainbow Cannon. This device is similar in appearance to a ballista, but with no mechanical workings aside from the trigger. It is capable of firing a Prismatic Spray once every 1d10+2 rounds, but after five shots, you must let it recharge for half an hour. Price? Prerequisites? Suggestions? Flames?
Lyinginbedmon 04-13-06, 08:22 PM	Strong evocation; CL 14th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, prismatic spray
KublaiKhan 04-14-06, 09:17 AM	For some reason, when I see the Rainbow Cannon, I can't help but think "Care Bear Stare!" ....I guess I'm showing my age or something. :rolleyes:
ReverendCow 04-14-06, 12:32 PM	For some reason, when I see the Rainbow Cannon, I can't help but think "Care Bear Stare!" The title "Rainbow Cannon" was the best I could think of at the time. Think of it this way, this cannon would destroyify those goofy little bears. ....I guess I'm showing my age or something. :rolleyes: Dude, if I could figure out how to make intelligent constructs that could turn into various types of vehicles, you bet your hind-quarters that I would.
KublaiKhan 04-14-06, 12:43 PM	You mean autobots? It'd be easier under the BESM d20 rules [ Mecha, alternate form, blam, you're done ] but it could be done with a construct and "polymorph any object" as an SLA. CR'd be a pain, but it'd be doable. Plus, in Eberron, you could conceivably have the bound elemental handle the transformation.
Lyinginbedmon 04-14-06, 12:53 PM	This thread is about to spark so many wierd and horrifying conversions Brilliant
KublaiKhan 04-14-06, 01:21 PM	You should talk to my players if you think this is weird...the discussions I have about various things I vaguely consider implementing make this look normal. Case in point: Mass Broadway Musical. It's the signature spell of one of my BBEG's. On a failed will save, causes the subject to sing and dance in a certain manner, according to a script...kinda like Irresistable Dance on steroids. And the characters end up singing tunes from "Cats" and "Moulin Rouge". There's also a reason why they're extremely jumpy around pipe organs.
forrestfire15 04-14-06, 04:23 PM	randomly spells Bigby's Hand and Telekinesis spells around the city. Garenteed to cause panik in the streets.
KublaiKhan 04-15-06, 09:20 PM	Alrighty, new citybusting idea for today [ as it's my birthday ]: Spiked logs. Take a bunch of trees, and hammer a bunch of railroad-spike-like-objects through 'em. Drop those throughout the streets; horse traffic will come to a standstill at these rather nasty barricades. Try 'n get 'em to be about the width of the average street. If you've got a bunch of undead down there, all the better; undead don't tend to care about piercing damage much, so even if they do run into one, they'll just go around it or over it without caring much. For added fun, coat some of the spikes in an injury-vector poison, or even just excrement: filth fever for the win!
ReverendCow 04-15-06, 09:41 PM	KublaiKhan> Happy Birthday, yo. How old are you? As for your idea, that's rocks. I'll admit, when I first read it, I got the idea to drop them as you pass, at a decent air-speed, on the street, so that they would roll. That way, they'd literally mow people down. Either way, they're pretty nasty.
KublaiKhan 04-15-06, 09:46 PM	23 years old. I'm not in the Middle Age category yet! And I still could be un-leveled as a Cleric, Druid, Monk or Wizard....but I class as Bard, anyway, so that doesn't matter. That would be kinda fun, to drop and roll 'em...especially if the city was like San Francisco: lots of hills with straight streets running down 'em. In addition, if you drop your troops with sandbags near where there's a log like that, they can build barricades fairly quickly.
ReverendCow 04-15-06, 10:02 PM	I'm 23, as well. 24 in June, though. Using them as roadblocks sounds like a good idea. One could even build a verson of these that is bladed, instead of spiked, so that you could get the mowing effect a little better. Spikes are good for impaling, but if you want to dismember or downright shred people, go with blades. Sure, the blades would get messed up when they hit the road and while rolling, but they'd still knock people down and pinch off limbs and such. Heck, if you wanted to go low-tech, you could get some relatively round boulders and drop them while flying the length of a road. Think Indiana Jones when he was getting chased by the boulder. Then, if you wanted to be a pain in the rear, use Stone Shape to meld them into the road as roadblocks. Pedestrians would still be able to get around them, but troop transports and other vehicles would be severely impeded. Hey, I got another idea for Stone Shape: Use it to make hollow boulders, which you would then fill with oil or some other incendiary chemical. Light and drop. Think of the catapult projectiles they used at the beginning of the movie "Gladiator."
KublaiKhan 04-15-06, 10:22 PM	Or, you could use the alchemical catapult loads in Heroes of Battle [ which I got myself as a birthday present/tax refund present [ Hooray for having a tax-day-birthday! ] ]. Those'd work, methinks.
Lokiyn 04-16-06, 01:18 AM	Vitrify (sandstorm) bombs for that ever popular scorched earth glass waste effect.
KublaiKhan 04-16-06, 11:51 AM	Vitrify (sandstorm) bombs for that ever popular scorched earth glass waste effect. True, but half the reason for attacking a city is to take it over, whether for resources or a strategic position.
ReverendCow 04-16-06, 12:42 PM	Or, you could use the alchemical catapult loads in Heroes of Battle [ which I got myself as a birthday present/tax refund present [ Hooray for having a tax-day-birthday! ] ]. Those'd work, methinks. Which would be more cost effective, these or hollow boulders via Stone Shape? Another cool idea would be to fill a projectile with filth (of various types) and drop that on the target area. Not only would that be good for creating an unsanitary living environment, but it'd be a good demoralizer. I mean, how good are you going to feel covered in "filth," or living in a filth-rich locale? Ohhh, how about this: Are you familiar with Spellfast Medallions? Rig up a new kind that looks like copper or silver pieces. Gold pieces would work too, but it's less likely that someone would give up on grabbing these, but stay with me. Create the Medallions using the silver or copper pieces, but affix them to the ground in some manner that would only allow the strongest of commoners to be able to remove them from the ground. Using an Alarm set to trigger the spell effect when it's removed, it will trigger a Delayed Blast Fireball or something that would destroyify a large number of people. I already suggested this on that thread about mundane routes of escape, but: Melt down a decent sized number of gold coins. Reconstitute a smaller number of gold coins, but ones that are at least twice as large as a standard gold coin. Scribe Explosive Runes on the coins. Then sprinkle them over the target area. Anyone greedy enough (read: Everyone,) will stop to investigate big gold coins, and subsequently, be blown up.
a4igeek 04-16-06, 06:51 PM	I got it. Shrink Spell some boulders. Drop them at the same time, then enlarge to normal then enlarge again. The expansion will push them apart creating the spread. Gravity does the rest.
CryoSilver 04-16-06, 08:28 PM	Starve it out. Control Weather creates rain, which has 2 major effects: 1: It makes everything wet and vastly accelerates rot and decay. 2: It overflows sewers and gutters, tainting drinking water supplies. A few weeks of rain non-stop and they'll be begging to surrender. Even better would be a Fimbulwinter spell cast in the summer; it lasts for weeks, and causes snow and rain.
ReverendCow 04-16-06, 09:53 PM	Cryo> Good idea. How about this: Control Weather to create a severe drought. Think on a scale that would make even clerics with Create Water cry (if they have enough water left in themselves.)
KublaiKhan 04-17-06, 08:12 AM	Control weather for dryness won't work so well as for wetness...a single decanter o' endless fun, remember, can do half a million gallons/day, which is enough for even a large city... This morning's idea may tie into the fact that I'm not quite awake yet...but releasing wild animals into the sewers [ essentially stocking the sewers of the city as a dungeon ] might help. Hungry animals will be popping up in the streets all over the place, causing widespread panic, if done right.
KublaiKhan 04-17-06, 11:35 AM	I should learn not to post before I have my coffee...'cuz that last post was strange. :confused: But, while I'm in the mood, how about importing assassin vines into the sewers? The subterranian kind, and the standard kind. Infest the city with 'em. Then, make sure that you're allied with a bunch of druids who want that city.
ReverendCow 04-17-06, 11:56 AM	KublaiKhan> I like both of those ideas, even if they are wierd. "The wierder the better," I always say. Point taken on the Control Weather thingy. Let's drown 'em out. For the sewer idea, release some Shadows. Once people start dying from the Shadows' Strength Drain, you'll have even more shadows. I'd use any kind of "reproducing" undead. Animals that spread disease would be good, too.
KublaiKhan 04-17-06, 12:15 PM	Hrmm...seems as though in a world with magic, you're not really going to be able to do much besieging by depriving people of resources...but giving them too *many* resources might work.... But let's corrupt these resources...spoil them all over the city. Bomb them with moldy bread, say, while cutting off supplies of normal food. Thus, the clerics will be busy with creating food, while 'food' from the invaders falls throughout the streets. Essentially, use your catapults as a waste disposal system. That'd be good with the psychological warfare aspect, and it'd bring the vermin out...and we all know what rats do. .....well, besides breed adventurers, apparently, if there's a bunch in the basement of the tavern.
ReverendCow 04-17-06, 12:29 PM	Good one. How about this: Magically mutate some rats into a version of dire rats that breed faster than rabbits? Or, do the same thing with some larger-than-normal insects. A colony of even Small ants in a cities sewers is going to cause a bit of a fuss.
Lokiyn 04-17-06, 12:31 PM	glass spheres of brown mold dropped before thefire bombardment for maxiumum problems
ReverendCow 04-17-06, 12:36 PM	glass spheres of brown mold dropped before thefire bombardment for maxiumum problems What book is brown mold in? Also, if sewers run underneath streets in the target area, you could (if you don't mind the stench) run around blasting the ceilings of the sewers with Disintigrate rays or sonic attacks. Nothing works for comedic effect like walking along minding your own business, then suddenly falling into raw sewage.
KublaiKhan 04-17-06, 12:47 PM	Brown Mold's in the DMG; it tends to absorb fire, and grows drastically in size when it does so. Sucks the heat right out of the air; things nearby it take cold damage. Oddly enough, if you hit it with a cold spell, it dies right off; kind of the opposite of what you'd expect, huh?
ShadowNinja 04-17-06, 02:26 PM	I didn't have time to read the entire thread, so I HOPE this has not been said before. Bear with me: Broom of Flying: 17,000 GP Wand of Earthquake: 18,000 GP Face of Enemy 13 MILES AWAY when his city explodes: Priceless 40 ft. Single move (Broom of Flying) 80 ft. Double move 80ft./6 sec. 800ft./1 minute 48000ft./Hour 432000ft./9 Hours
KublaiKhan 04-17-06, 02:33 PM	Won't work: Earthquake doesn't fit in a Wand, and it's an instantaneous spell.
Joex_The_Pale 04-17-06, 11:51 PM	The ideas on this thread... :clap: I had no clue there were so many evil, twisted, demented people in this world! :gah: I don't feel so alone now! :drool: How's about this idea... :lightbulb ... :waits: It was right here a second ago!! :twitch: I swear, everytime I let my mind wander, it gets lost. I think it's too little to be out by itself... :ahem:
ReverendCow 04-18-06, 12:17 AM	Joex> Calm down dude, you're trying too hard. Don't BE evil. Let the evil flow through you. Be a conduit FOR the evil.
KublaiKhan 04-18-06, 02:11 AM	I'm a DM. The only evil people who aren't directly under my control in the world are the PCs in the Evil game....which is currently on hiatus. I've got a lot of pent-up evil to let out. Tonight's evil, before I go to sleep: Cities tend to have lots of adventurers. Adventurerers like shiny, flashy items....so plant a number of cursed weapons in the dungeons and sewers around town a while before the invasion. Give them minor enchantments...this one's a +1, this one's got flaming, this one's ghost touch...nothing that the really high-level ones would want....and curse them, such that on a given event, they'll lose all their powers, or turn against the owners. Or just give them the Masterslaying enchantment, and keep the scabbards on your airships. When all the little adventurers come out to defend the town....that much mincemeat. Expensive, yes. Potentially dangerous, yes. .........absolutely a laugh riot to watch when the swords all turn useless or turn against their wielders? There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's DragonShardCard. Accepted by Wizards, Sorcerers, and Artificers world-wide, in more than a thousand locations.
KublaiKhan 04-18-06, 10:01 AM	Shrink Item on battlefield corpses and such; load 'em into the catapult: all of a sudden, there's massive piles of bodies all over town. Squishy.
ReverendCow 04-18-06, 11:51 AM	Joex> Take a lesson from KublaiKahn. I like your cursed item idea, Kublai. I would curse them such, that when used against me or my forces, they'd get transported to a random plane. Or, if I felt like being particularly evil, the Negative Energy Plane.
KublaiKhan 04-18-06, 02:27 PM	Ooh, I'm a role model! I'm working on a sort of cannon in my head that involves a 'gate' spell to an elemental plane, but that's not done yet....I'll post it later.
mvincent 04-18-06, 03:18 PM	Yet another possible idea: Having the bombay of an airship as the destination of a (possibly permanent) teleportation circle could allow you to do continual bombardment (or the dropping of air-troops) without needing to return to home base for reloading.
KublaiKhan 04-18-06, 03:35 PM	Yet another possible idea: Having the bombay of an airship as the destination of a (possibly permanent) teleportation circle could allow you to do continual bombardment (or the dropping of air-troops) without needing to return to home base for reloading. Now there's an idea: Just load the ballista-bolt kinda bombs through some ring gates. That'd work pretty well....
Lyinginbedmon 04-18-06, 03:39 PM	Now there's an idea: Just load the ballista-bolt kinda bombs through some ring gates. That'd work pretty well.... Assuming that the ballista bolts are less than 18 inches diameter, which I personally doubt
KublaiKhan 04-18-06, 03:54 PM	Assuming that the ballista bolts are less than 18 inches diameter, which I personally doubt :confused: What kinda bolts are you throwing, tree-trunks? :eek: I was under the impression they were closer to spears than telephone poles....18 inch diameter's pretty big....
ReverendCow 04-18-06, 05:32 PM	I was under the impression that they were similar in size (but not shape) to baseball bats.
forrestfire15 04-18-06, 08:18 PM	You are all the MOST evil players I have ever met. I applaud you. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
mvincent 04-18-06, 08:53 PM	Just load the ballista-bolt kinda bombs through some ring gates. That'd work pretty well....You would likely exceed the ring-gate's 100 lb. daily limit in short order. To make it work, you might need to: 1) Stick your munitions into a portable hole 2) Thrust the portable hole through the ring gates 3) Empty the contents of the portable hole onto the town below 4) Return your arm (holding the portable hole) back through the gate This should not use up any of the ring-gate's daily weight limit, and so could be done continuously.
d24478667 04-18-06, 09:23 PM	Lots and lots of Fireball Necklaces. Shrapnel and BIG damage. put in some flasks of alchemists fire and stick it all in a barrel of oil. Spark= Patch of metal,
ReverendCow 04-18-06, 09:40 PM	I think this would work pretty good: (Ignore the periods.) Airship-side...................................D emiplane-side ........................................ ................................... _Ceiling of Airship____|G|.......................... ........... ....________________|A|_________________ ___ Bomb ...............\|/...\|/...\|/.|T|..\|/...\|/...\|/...\|/...\|/.| Rack ..Bolts.......|......|......|..|E|...|.. ....|......|.....|......|..| ................|......|......|..|G|...| ......|......|.....|......|..| Bomb .......\|/.....|......|......|..|A|...|......|.... ..|.....|......|..| Rack ........|.......|......|......|..|T|...| ......|......|.....|......|..| ........|.......|......|......|..|E|...| ......|......|.....|......|..| ........|.......|......|......|..|..|... |......|......|.....|......|..| ___...|...._Airship floor_|..|___________________| ........|...\Bomb-hole ........| Sorry for the wiggly-ness of the bolts and the gate, formatting is wierd. Have a gate to/from a demiplane rigged up in your airship. Have a L-shaped pole mounted to the floor of your demiplane, extending through the gate, into the airship, terminating over the hole in the deck that the bombs will fall through. Have your ballista bolts, with fins attached and O-rings on the back of the bolts, slide along the length of the rod until they get to the end, at which point they drop off and out of the airship. Have a Wierdstone in your demiplane to prevent anyone from using anything but your gate to get in as well as some sort of magic object that will prevent scrying into the demiplane. You might also want some sort of scrying protection on/in your airship. I know I suggested something similar to this earlier in this thread, but I think it's viable, if expensive.
KublaiKhan 04-18-06, 10:04 PM	Going to need Transdimensional Spell, or whatever it's called, on Norden's Wonderous Bombsight's telekinesis effect, in order to operate through the gate to push the bombs, methink. Either that, or have a crew member in there sliding the bombs along. Might be more cost-effective that way. Though if you did things right, you could have a giant factory/warehouse in your demiplane, and gate all the bombs out....and have a convenient escape route if things went really sour, too.
Lokiyn 04-19-06, 01:29 AM	Fun option. Arcane genesis to create a demiplane with a constant temperature of 805 C, Use the underdark gate option to allow a gate set in the sea to gate in seawater to the top of the plane. with a gate on the bottom of the plane and a second gate beside the entry gate. The second gate on he top also has the material transport option set to only "Pure" water, which allows the steam to exit which can be used as a source of energy for you war machine foundry on your deserted island... you do have an evil island full of doomsday devices right? Anyway the third and final mobile portal pair is set at the bottom of the demiplane (made of an iron... prehaps nickel would be better to resist corrosion, whatever its magic ;) ) also with the matter option paired to a mobile portal (see mobile portal feat) on the base of the ship so that you can open up the portal from the ship. Even with a moderatly sized plane by the time ita even half full its 24,429,024.47 cubic feet for the minimum 180 ft radius so at 50% its 1,647,053,688 punds of salt. At fifty psi, with the gate 113 feet below the surface of the ocean, and an area of portal at the listed 300 square feet you have some random value of gallons per min, however its relativly unimportant since you have as much time to prep as you need. Any way end result is a ship that can spew molten salt upon the people below, nothing a decanter of endless water can't clean up .... eventually.... The morale effect alone of molten death raining down from the sky should win more than a few battles
KublaiKhan 04-19-06, 01:46 AM	Hrmmm...what's the melting point of adamantine? And hey, you've got a more or less infinite source of power with that implementation...I rather like that: geothermal energy on crack. .......speaking of cracks....use the steam pressure to drive down an adamantine lance-on-a-chain. Serious building breakage, and the noise would be a fun morale kinda thingy.
Lyinginbedmon 04-19-06, 05:00 AM	Hrmmm...what's the melting point of adamantine? And hey, you've got a more or less infinite source of power with that implementation...I rather like that: geothermal energy on crack. .......speaking of cracks....use the steam pressure to drive down an adamantine lance-on-a-chain. Serious building breakage, and the noise would be a fun morale kinda thingy. Tooting my own horn again here, but if you want a better, more portable infinite energy source, the Jovoc Generator is the way to go. And of course, emergency warrants, it becomes the 100% fatality chance Jovocian Bomb
KublaiKhan 04-19-06, 08:12 AM	True, but what's not to love about a system that mixes planar energies in an extremely hazardous fashion? ^^; Besides, live steam is useful for creating your very own clouds: nonmagical concealment that's not subject to True Seeing.
Lokiyn 04-19-06, 02:12 PM	Tooting my own horn again here, but if you want a better, more portable infinite energy source, the Jovoc Generator is the way to go. And of course, emergency warrants, it becomes the 100% fatality chance Jovocian Bomb Well the big flaw there is that you are dealing infinite damage, not generating infinite energy. plus the portals are mobile which means the steam output portal and the molten salt portal can be anwhere, in fact if you wanted you could power steam driven propellers on the ship with one portal and bomb with the other. Portal designed systems are extremely efficient since all the work is done elsewhere and you simply carry the output device with you, in this case the salt drop is a simple side effect of using sea water as a fuel source, (note that creatures will be sucked toward the portal but pass through it without being tranlated to another plane, technically producing an underwater accelerator)
Lyinginbedmon 04-19-06, 02:53 PM	It's true that the Generator creates infinite damage, however, that is not the whole of the design. If you begin the reaction using fire damage, the entire area is assumed to be dealt fire damage that cannot be reduced by any means. Electricity damage creates an endless field of electricity, cold damage creates a field of chilling frost etc. So, pick your energy of choice and start drawing power. This is why there is a distinction between the Jovoc Generator and the Jovocian Bomb, one is meant to destroy and the other is meant to fuel.
mvincent 04-19-06, 03:38 PM	More silly ideas for conducting fantasy warfare: Use fleets of 'Mecha' created using permanent animate object on gargantuan iron* statues, then outfit them with rings of counterspell (dispel magic), wings of flying, etc. *The wall of iron spell can generate the raw material, and the Fabricate spell could possibly aid in their construction. Alternately: You could track down Baba Yaga’s Chicken-Legged Hut to its nest and steal a couple of its eggs. You then raise the hutchlings to adulthood and start breeding them like crazy, starting a whole medieval line of RV's... perhaps even branching into a line of sapient luggage. The overhead would be (literally) chicken feed. Eventually, you could outfit these creations with weaponry and flying gear, then take control of the region with a diverse array of chicken-mecha that can disguise themselves by transforming into houses. You could also use your house-husbandry skills to breed a special flock that could combine into a devastating super-mansion (that is bigger on the inside than it appears). A sort of Super-Dimensional Fortress. Yeah baby!
snowstrider 04-19-06, 03:59 PM	Are you suggesting the use of chicken transformers? Or possibly something on the lines of Voltron housing projects? I keep getting this vision of giant robotic chickens rampaging across the countryside... :blink:
KublaiKhan 04-19-06, 04:21 PM	Times like this, I rather wish I'd bought the Dragonmech book when I'd seen it...
Lokiyn 04-19-06, 07:07 PM	It's true that the Generator creates infinite damage, however, that is not the whole of the design. If you begin the reaction using fire damage, the entire area is assumed to be dealt fire damage that cannot be reduced by any means. Electricity damage creates an endless field of electricity, cold damage creates a field of chilling frost etc. So, pick your energy of choice and start drawing power. This is why there is a distinction between the Jovoc Generator and the Jovocian Bomb, one is meant to destroy and the other is meant to fuel. Here is where i'm going to have to disagree with you. three main points1.)Damage dealt to people by the aura is not the same as the damage dealt to the jovac1. Its simply states damage it makes no mention of the dame type of damage. Since the damage dealt by the aura is untyped while the damage that triggers it can be anything. 2.) Arcane energies created through magic are not necessarily the same as real energies generated by the physical world. A classic example is the lightning bolt, in theory simply grounding the bolt out with a steel towershield would stop the bolt, or a non conductive material such as glass yould be unharmed. Similarly with the other energy types. So you may or may not be ably to tap into the sphere of energy (see 1 and 3) 3.) The Aura of retribution only affects creatures not objects. Any attempt to harness power generated by this through material means (non creature) results in futile effort. So even if you ignore point 1 and keep damage the same, and ignore point 2 and treat the damage types as real physical mundane energies, you have no way to interact with the energy sphere. Another gate based power generation source involves more portals and this time involves lodestones2 Either procuring a large enough lodestone or using loadstones to magnetize an iron cylinder through heating iron to above the curie point and exposing then to a magnetic field generated by lodestones as they cool then strengthened by natural lightning. you will need say 4 such iron cylinders 4 portals with the feature from the underdark that allows unattended matter, as well as 2 pairs of ring gates. The cylinders are placed in such a manner that they pass through two demiplanes each crafted as cylinders the same width as the iron cylinder and twice as long. The main chambers are placed on the material plane separated by up to 100 miles in distance. The chambers are filled with vegetable matter created by minor creation with the design set to place the cylinders to that each passes onto the material plane in sequence due to the delayed start period so that any given point as one cylinder leaves the material the second enters. About the path of falling on the material plane you place a coil of iron or Nickel (i'd use the less corrosive nickel) so that the cylinder can fall. however the bottom of the initial coil is placed such that it goes through the ring gate to the top of cylinder B so that continuity of electon path is maintained. The second pair of ring gates acts as the pole of the generator. Contain each of these in a micro thin sphere of riverine and fill them with minor created matter before you seal it up. The matter vanishes leaving a airless void behind. Let gravity have its way and the cylinder will accelerate without limit. As you can immagine that this will generate an immense current that increases as the speed does. the secondary points that act as the poles of our inductive generator. Suppose that the chambers are 90 miles apart 10 miles less than the max. simple tig will tell you where you can put the exit points. If you placed them at the mid point you could go as high as 89 miles. For entertainment you could place the exit points maintained at this altitude in a manner that they coil about a rod of iron, thus generating an ever increasing magnetic field, which would probably begin to generate aurora phenomena, well before the field got strong enough to say rip any magnetic material within the area off the planet3. 1 jovac in this case means anything with the aura 2lodestones (http://www.phy6.org/earthmag/lodeston.htm) 3 That is of course assuming that you dont rip the device apart from its own magnetic fields, if you say that riverine allowed magnetic fields to penetrate it i would say encase the parts and coils in the material (microns thick) so that the unyeilding material prevented movement of the parts..... Of course in that instance you could minimize the device by placing the magnetic field generator such that once the magnetized rods enter the material plane into thier riverine tubes the magnetic field generated by the electromagnet pulls the rods along so that the entire assembly begins to accelerate due to its own field strength creating a magnetic field implosion bomb, or for astronomy buffs an artificial Magnatar. Since the propogation of a magnetic field appears to be the same as light(As far as i can find) the power of the bomb would in theory generate a magnetic field that would absorb all magnetic materials in the sphere into a ball which would probably then also be magnetized. A magnetic field above 10 gigateslas is strong enough to wipe a credit card from half the distance of the Moon from the Earth. A small neodymium based rare earth magnet has a field of about 1 tesla, Earth has a geomagnetic field of 30-60 microteslas, and most media used for data storage can be erased with a millitesla field at very short range. The magnetic field of a magnetar would be lethal at a distance of up to 1000 km, tearing tissues due to the diamagnetism of water. Tidal forces of a 1.4 solar mass magnetar would also be lethal at such a distance, pulling an average-sized human apart with a force of over 20 kilonewtons (over 4500 pounds-force). Another fun fact, water is magnetic..... and thus is manipulated by the field.
KublaiKhan 04-19-06, 07:30 PM	Going to need something other than ring gates, what with that unfortunate 100lb/24 hours limit...
Lokiyn 04-19-06, 07:40 PM	Going to need something other than ring gates, what with that unfortunate 100lb/24 hours limit... Ah but the iron isn't passing through, Electrons are. If i'm moving 100 lb of electrons i figure that by then i've probably caused enough havoc. think of it as a safty switch. The micro bomb version removes the need for the ring gates.
KublaiKhan 04-19-06, 08:04 PM	Ah, upon rereading that, that makes sense; using the ring gates as dimensionally folding thingamabobs. Alrighty. Though I might add that charging the lodestones would be a great deal easier than waiting for a lightning storm: shocking grasp, lightning, or chain lightning, anyone? Or just wait for a druid to show up; they call lightning fairly well.
Lokiyn 04-19-06, 08:26 PM	Ah, upon rereading that, that makes sense; using the ring gates as dimensionally folding thingamabobs. Alrighty. Though I might add that charging the lodestones would be a great deal easier than waiting for a lightning storm: shocking grasp, lightning, or chain lightning, anyone? Or just wait for a druid to show up; they call lightning fairly well. Personally i tend to treat magically generated lightning as different than natural lightning since magically generating lightning has some unnatural properties. If you feel different call lighting would probably be the least unnatural source of lightning. For some reason the idea of generating a pulsing magnetic field that destroys anything organic(with water) or magnetic within several hundred miles amuses me. Since the base rules from the dmg is "as the real world unless specified" i tend use magic as minimally as possible so that you can apply the maximum amount of real world physics to the devices.
syntaxerror37 04-19-06, 09:13 PM	Remember that a contracted ash tray could be as much as $500 when one could be bought at Wal-mart for $1.50 and lets not forget those $5000 toilet seats when they start at $7.50 at Wally World. Not to de-rail the thread, It's a rather amusing and thought provoking one, but hearing stuff like this bothers me, because most people don't know why an ash tray cost $500 in goverment contracts. The ash tray is only $1.50, the other $498.50 is used to pay for "secret" things, such as anti-missle instilations, bomb shelters, back-up generators, things you don't want listed on a invoice unfrendlies could very easily get their hands on. Back on thread, I don't really see the need to use exotic spell-like efects to use against ordinary cities/towns/feilds. Rocks and burning oil can cause quite a bit of property damage. Throw in a bit of alchemist's fire and/or acid and you'll have the pesents screaming in terror. Of coures you could always get a squad of adepts equip them with wands of various destructive types and go to town spell-boming a city. A few 5d6 fireballs with a 14DC save will do quite a bit of damage to a normal town, let alone its citizens.
KublaiKhan 04-19-06, 11:40 PM	Not to de-rail the thread, It's a rather amusing and thought provoking one, but hearing stuff like this bothers me, because most people don't know why an ash tray cost $500 in goverment contracts. The ash tray is only $1.50, the other $498.50 is used to pay for "secret" things, such as anti-missle instilations, bomb shelters, back-up generators, things you don't want listed on a invoice unfrendlies could very easily get their hands on. That doesn't account for the full $500, y'know. Working as I do for a subcontractor of a government contractor, I get to see the primary reason why it costs a million dollars for the simplest things: constant design revisions. It's like some people have nothing to do all day but make tiny little tweaks that nonetheless necessitate completely redoing a part, because now it has to be 2/100ths inch thicker. Eventually, it works out that all those ashtrays are ever so slightly different--and thus, the overhead costs of designing, materials acquisition, etc., are not averaged out over the whole 10,000 of them: they're re-done for each individual one. Back on thread, I don't really see the need to use exotic spell-like efects to use against ordinary cities/towns/feilds. Rocks and burning oil can cause quite a bit of property damage. Throw in a bit of alchemist's fire and/or acid and you'll have the pesents screaming in terror. Of coures you could always get a squad of adepts equip them with wands of various destructive types and go to town spell-boming a city. A few 5d6 fireballs with a 14DC save will do quite a bit of damage to a normal town, let alone its citizens. Yes, but magic is FUN that way. You're playing a game that lets you summon up genies to make wishes--why not use that ability?
ReverendCow 04-19-06, 11:42 PM	You. People. Are. INSANE. :bow: :clap: :plotting: :evillaugh I was just going to go the "simple" route and build a portal on the Elemental Plane of Water with the output being a portable gate that could be transported to wherever you wanted to drown large quantities of people. Plus, you could attach the output-portal to the bottom of your airship so that, when activated, you could rain watery death from the sky. Or, you could air-drop the portal upstream from the target location. Of course, there doesn't have to be a stream before you drop the gate. How big are average portals? How much water would flow through an average portal, per round, do you think? With a enough of those, you could flood an entire planet. Just sink 'em in a part of the ocean where A) nothing lives, or B) nothing can live. That way, it'll be harder for anyone to find them. I'd also suggest slapping some sort of divination-blocking effects on them. Leave them on for a short time, just to flood coastal areas. All the fun of global-warming, with none of the nasty UV effects!
KublaiKhan 04-20-06, 09:12 AM	Hrm. Flooding the planet sounds fun, but I'm not sure what the standard pressure of the elemental plane of water is--you could end up draining the oceans into it by mistake, y'see, and that would just be awkward for everyone. The air-drop method would be viable, except for water's unfortunate tendency to form drops when...well...dropped. However, there's one really really easy way to keep a large volume of water in one chunk: Freeze it. And hey, there's all sorts of lovely spells with the 'cold' descriptor. The only part that's difficult for me to figure out in terms of the Infinite Ice Cube Maker is how to hold the water in one place long enough to freeze it thoroughly.
Lokiyn 04-20-06, 09:17 AM	Hrm. Flooding the planet sounds fun, but I'm not sure what the standard pressure of the elemental plane of water is--you could end up draining the oceans into it by mistake, y'see, and that would just be awkward for everyone. The air-drop method would be viable, except for water's unfortunate tendency to form drops when...well...dropped. However, there's one really really easy way to keep a large volume of water in one chunk: Freeze it. And hey, there's all sorts of lovely spells with the 'cold' descriptor. The only part that's difficult for me to figure out in terms of the Infinite Ice Cube Maker is how to hold the water in one place long enough to freeze it thoroughly. Elemental plane of water is at a standard psi for the top layers of the ocean. The ocean trenches on the other hand play fair to physics with preasure. Portal at bottom, portal to heated plane, steam to 1 degree kelvin demiplane, ice to evil penguin carved gate to drop large snowballs on an unsuspecting world self note find elemental plane of snowcone syrup
JiCi 04-20-06, 09:29 AM	I was thinking of things to incorperate into a campaign. You know the things. Stuff that makes life Hell for the PCs. My latest screwball Idea- Airship Bombers. Eberron has airships, but not the Bombs. I was thinking of the classic torpedo shaped freefalling bombs dropped in mass numbers on to an unsuspecting vague target half a mile below. (Think WW2) What I'm looking for is a little help with creating these bad boys. They are probably not gonna be used against personel, there are more cost effective spells than that. They are not acurate, so a VERY, VERY wide Area of Effect is needed. I'm thinking 100 feet. Needs a concussion effect or something that will bypass Hardness or damage reduction of buildings. I've been told to just put a thousand pieces of paper with "Explosive runes" written on them into a wooden barrel with a bottle of alchemist fire. Not bad. That's alot of damage! In a 20ft radius. I need alot of damage in a wider area. Remember, inacuracy is the name of the game. Add height to that, and the odds of hitting within 20ft of your target just went out the window. Not to mention the time and cost of creating each and every barrel. If I need a custom spell, that's fine. Exept for the fact i'm no good at that. ANY and all help appreciated. :DWould that fit the bill ? Fireball Flask: This flask is warm to the touch and seem to shake a little. When throwing the flask, by following the same rules as throwing a flask of alchemist's fire, and hitting a hard surface, the flask explodes in a burst of fire, dealing 5d6 points of fire in a 20-foot radius, centered on the point of impact. The flask is consumed in the explosion. Faint Evocation; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, fireball; Price 750 gp Fireball Jug: This jug is warm to the touch and seem to shake a little. When throwing the jug, by following the same rules as throwing a flask of alchemist's fire, and hitting a hard surface, the jug explodes in a burst of fire, dealing 10d6 points of fire in a 20-foot radius, centered on the point of impact. The jug is consumed in the explosion. Moderate Evocation; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, fireball; Price 1,500 gp Fireball Time Bomb: This sphere is warm to the touch and seem to shake a little. It works like a fireball flask, except by turning a handle on the side, you can set a specific time to hold the detonation, up to 5 rounds. When throwing the sphere, by following the same rules as throwing a flask of alchemist's fire, and reaching the time, the sphere explodes in a burst of fire, dealing 15d6 points of fire in a 20-foot radius, centered on the point of impact. The sphere is consumed in the explosion. Strong Evocation; CL 15th; Craft Wondrous Item, delayed blast fireball; Price 5,250 gp Fireball Time Grenade: This sphere is warm to the touch and seem to shake a little. It works like a fireball jug, except by turning a handle on the side, you can set a specific time to hold the detonation, up to 5 rounds. When throwing the sphere, by following the same rules as throwing a flask of alchemist's fire, and reaching the time, the sphere explodes in a burst of fire, dealing 20d6 points of fire in a 20-foot radius, centered on the point of impact. The sphere is consumed in the explosion. Overwhelming Evocation; CL 20th; Craft Wondrous Item, delayed blast fireball; Price 7,000 gp Now just drop it from a height and watch it burn.
Lyinginbedmon 04-20-06, 09:48 AM	Does anyone remember the rules on how long it takes to fall a certain distance? I honestly can't find them anywhere, and I'm sure I saw them somewhere!
Lokiyn 04-20-06, 10:20 AM	Does anyone remember the rules on how long it takes to fall a certain distance? I honestly can't find them anywhere, and I'm sure I saw them somewhere! Closest i can find Characters on a plane with subjective directional gravity can move normally along a solid surface by imagining “down” near their feet. If suspended in midair, a character “flies” by merely choosing a “down” direction and “falling” that way. Under such a procedure, an individual “falls” 150 feet in the first round and 300 feet in each succeeding round. Movement is straight-line only. In order to stop, one has to slow one’s movement by changing the designated “down” direction (again, moving 150 feet in the new direction in the first round and 300 feet per round thereafter). 150 ft first round 300 each round after that
snowstrider 04-20-06, 10:55 AM	The only part that's difficult for me to figure out in terms of the Infinite Ice Cube Maker is how to hold the water in one place long enough to freeze it thoroughly. Use a pipe bent into a spiral with chill touch or whatever spells you like best enchanted on it to pre chill the water before it enters a holding tank. Then use a high level cold spell in the holding tank just before it drops. ........||| ....... :gift: :shocked:
ReverendCow 04-20-06, 11:01 AM	Hrm. Flooding the planet sounds fun, but I'm not sure what the standard pressure of the elemental plane of water is--you could end up draining the oceans into it by mistake, y'see, and that would just be awkward for everyone. FANTASTIC! Just sink the gate in one of the deepest parts of the ocean and let 'er rip! Then figure out how to restrict access from the Material Plane to the Elemental Plane of Water. Then you could sell water on the Material Plane and make a killing! To flood the planet, either have the output gate be above water, or near the surface, suspended by bouys. We need a spell to create an underwater vortex. You remember those gizmos that you hook two 2-liter bottles with water into? You spin the bottles and it creates a whirlpool that drains the top bottle faster. If you could make this work with a gate on the Elemental Plane of Water, you could pump the water through the gate at a much higher velocity/quantity. The air-drop method would be viable, except for water's unfortunate tendency to form drops when...well...dropped. Yeah, but you'd still be putting out a large quantity of water, even if you're raining it upon the target. However, there's one really really easy way to keep a large volume of water in one chunk: Freeze it. Just build the gate with a spell that will freeze the water as it comes through. Make it use-activated. OOOH! Make the water-freezing spell PULSE! Ice-cicles of DOOM! :evillaugh The only part that's difficult for me to figure out in terms of the Infinite Ice Cube Maker is how to hold the water in one place long enough to freeze it thoroughly. You don't have to, just add that spell to the construction of the output gate to freeze the water as it passes the "event horizon." It may come out in large cylinders, in the event of a round gate, but you can always make your output gate be square.
KublaiKhan 04-20-06, 01:22 PM	This thread seems to be becoming one of those '1001' threads. Like, "1k1 ways to ruin a city from the air' or something.
ReverendCow 04-20-06, 07:18 PM	This thread seems to be becoming one of those '1001' threads. Like, "1k1 ways to ruin a city from the air' or something. More like, "1001 ways to completely obliterate everything on the Material Plane." So what do you think of the "Ice-cicles of DOOM!"?
KublaiKhan 04-20-06, 08:12 PM	Icicles of doom sound quite fun, and very gratifying; there's a spell in the Spell Compendium that causes something similar, but a Colossal Icicle could really ruin your day..... It occurs to me that a mage who can cast Genesis need never run out of any type of material he or she desires: Just cast Genesis, or re-cast it, naming as the material anything he or she desires. And at a cost of only 5k xp! Meaning you could have a demiplane of Gold. Or of Adamantine. Or Mithril, or cold iron, or anything you care to name....antimatter, if you make the requisite knowledge: physics rolls....
Lokiyn 04-21-06, 12:32 AM	Icicles of doom sound quite fun, and very gratifying; there's a spell in the Spell Compendium that causes something similar, but a Colossal Icicle could really ruin your day..... It occurs to me that a mage who can cast Genesis need never run out of any type of material he or she desires: Just cast Genesis, or re-cast it, naming as the material anything he or she desires. And at a cost of only 5k xp! Meaning you could have a demiplane of Gold. Or of Adamantine. Or Mithril, or cold iron, or anything you care to name....antimatter, if you make the requisite knowledge: physics rolls.... Only for arcane genesis from 3.0 3.5 genesis versions psionic and truename/divine contain limiting clauses. So if you want to use the 3.0 arcane version feel free. I make it a specialty of mine to max out the potential of psionic genesis (in sig)
ReverendCow 04-21-06, 01:44 AM	How about this: Have demiplanes set up like this, connected by portals: (ignore the periods) Elemental Plane of Fire .................| .........Demiplane A-------Demiplane B------Gate Drill .................|...................... |.......|..................| Elemental Plane of Water---|.......|-----Misc plane Fire and water mix in Demiplane A, causing massive amounts of steam, which is propelled to Demiplane B. Demiplane B houses machinery, the drive axle and cooling system of which extends through a portal, powering and cooling the Gate Drill, which can be wherever you need it. Demiplane B has another portal set up within it, which vents heat and pressure from the Gate Drill and Demiplane Bs' cooling system. The gate drill has another portal set up within it to dump the rock and "other stuff" the drill breaks loose, so as to not bind the drill up. The Gate Drill is placed on a planet of your choosing. When activated, the drill begins to burrow to the center of the planet. When it reaches the center, the planet explodes. If you're familiar with the original Transformers cartoon, you know this to be true. This could also be used on the Abyss, so as to create an elevator shaft from Layer #1 as far down as you want it to go, or some jerk of a demon/devil destroys it, whichever comes first.
Lyinginbedmon 04-21-06, 05:00 AM	How about this: Have demiplanes set up like this, connected by portals: (ignore the periods) Elemental Plane of Fire .................| .........Demiplane A-------Demiplane B------Gate Drill .................|...................... |.......|..................| Elemental Plane of Water---|.......|-----Misc plane Fire and water mix in Demiplane A, causing massive amounts of steam, which is propelled to Demiplane B. Demiplane B houses machinery, the drive axle and cooling system of which extends through a portal, powering and cooling the Gate Drill, which can be wherever you need it. Demiplane B has another portal set up within it, which vents heat and pressure from the Gate Drill and Demiplane Bs' cooling system. The gate drill has another portal set up within it to dump the rock and "other stuff" the drill breaks loose, so as to not bind the drill up. The Gate Drill is placed on a planet of your choosing. When activated, the drill begins to burrow to the center of the planet. When it reaches the center, the planet explodes. If you're familiar with the original Transformers cartoon, you know this to be true. This could also be used on the Abyss, so as to create an elevator shaft from Layer #1 as far down as you want it to go, or some jerk of a demon/devil destroys it, whichever comes first. You have my attention :schemes:
KublaiKhan 04-21-06, 10:58 AM	d20 SRD: Genesis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm) I see no limiting clauses.... :schemes: If we're going for Gate-Fu, there's always the lovely "driving machinery is in the demiplane where the weight doesn't count" method....allowing you to have tremendously fast and powerful, but very small, ships. Back to the Material Plane: Barrel of scrap iron, some flasks of alchemist's fire: grenade.
KublaiKhan 04-21-06, 11:13 AM	.....Ok, for utter wrongness: Craft Wonderous Item, Cure Light Wounds, Fireball This object is a sphere of iron that explodes with a firey burst, fort save vs. unconsciousness: The Merciful Hand Grenade.
mvincent 04-21-06, 12:21 PM	Only for arcane genesis from 3.0 3.5 genesis versions psionic and truename/divine contain limiting clauses. So if you want to use the 3.0 arcane version feel free.As mentioned, the non-psionic version in the SRD (here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm)) does not have the limiting clauses (and requires x5 as much XP to cast as the psionic version (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/genesis.htm)). I believe it is considered 3.5. Anyone?
ReverendCow 04-21-06, 01:13 PM	Barrel of scrap iron, some flasks of alchemist's fire: grenade. But alchemists' fire doesn't exactly explode. It splashes and ignites. With the Fireball, it even says in the spell description that it expands with very little pressure, thus, no explosion. You'd be better off with a psionic Energy Push, Fire, somehow modified into a burst and put in a single use psionic device. That'll get their attention. Energy Push Psychokinetic [see text] Level: Psion/wilder 2 Display: Auditory and visual Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./ level) Effect: Ray Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Reflex half or Fortitude half; see text Power Resistance: Yes Power Points: 3 Upon manifesting this power, you choose cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. You project a solid blast of energy of the chosen type at a target, dealing it 2d6 points of damage. In addition, if a subject of up to one size category larger than you fails a Strength check (DC equal to the save DC of this power), the driving force of the energy blast pushes it back 5 feet plus another 5 feet for every 5 points of damage it takes. If a wall or other solid object prevents the subject from being pushed back, the subject instead slams into the object and takes an extra 2d6 points of damage from the impact (no save). The movement caused by energy push does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Cold: A blast of this energy type deals +1 point of damage per die (damage from impact remains at 2d6 points). The saving throw to reduce damage from a cold push is a Fortitude save instead of a Reflex save. Electricity: Manifesting a blast of this energy type provides a +2 bonus to the save DC and a +2 bonus on manifester level checks for the purpose of overcoming power resistance. Fire: A blast of this energy type deals +1 point of damage per die (damage from impact remains at 2d6 points). Sonic: A blast of this energy type deals –1 point of damage per die (damage from impact remains at 2d6 points) and ignores an object’s hardness. This power’s subtype is the same as the type of energy you manifest. Augment: For every 2 additional power points you spend, this power’s damage increases by one die (d6) and its save DC increases by 1. The damage increase applies to both the initial blast and any damage from impact with an object. As for the light, fast airships idea, it sounds good. How would you figure out how fast you could get a ship going?
KublaiKhan 04-21-06, 02:00 PM	Depends heavily on how efficient you can get the engine to run, how much thrust, etc. Also depends on the strength of the hull. I can see high-subsonic as a possibility.
ReverendCow 04-21-06, 02:06 PM	I guess the next logical questions would be: How fast can you get an airship to go with magic/psionics? Could you combine magic/psionics with mechanical to make it go even faster than magic/psionics or mechanical alone? What was the "per day" output of one of those Decanters of Endless Water, again? How many cubic feet would that be?
KublaiKhan 04-21-06, 02:16 PM	The magic method's pretty well established--there's Overland Flight, and there's whatever method Eberron uses. Half-million gallons for the Decanter--that's a STR check, DC 12 to control it, by the way. However, use that to fill a boiler: Adamantine-sheathed on the inside, insulated, and banded on the outside with mithral or adamantine, depending on weight requirements. A permanent Heat Metal effect on the inside: Steam rocket. 'd you ever see Steamboy? Something like that. Throw a couple wings and stabilizers on the boiler, and you've got a rocket sled.
Lokiyn 04-21-06, 05:08 PM	As mentioned, the non-psionic version in the SRD (here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm)) does not have the limiting clauses (and requires x5 as much XP to cast as the psionic version (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/genesis.htm)). I believe it is considered 3.5. Anyone? Arcane version, only found in the Epic Level Handbook, quasi 3.5 Divine version, Only found in the 3.0 creation domain, the creation domain has been updated and genesis was replaced with Pavilion of Grandeur, we reprinted as word of genesis now requiring a dc 50 truespeak check in addition to the rest. The Srd does not reflect all the official changes made to the rules, just ogl changes. Psionic version, as srd And i think the fastest we got a vehicle going was 130-260+ miles per hour which i think could go a little faster.
ReverendCow 04-21-06, 10:37 PM	And i think the fastest we got a vehicle going was 130-260+ miles per hour which i think could go a little faster. Unless I'm mistaken, that boils down to 1144 ft/round (130mph,) to 2288ft/round (260 mph.) How'd you go about that? DM fiat, or something that any DM would be likely to allow. I got curious, 50 ft/rd equals 5.68 miles/hr. Is that right? That's awfully slow.
Lokiyn 04-21-06, 10:43 PM	Base Speed Wind Windless Vehicle Base Speed Wind 40 80 5 Masterwork Masterwork Masterwork 45 85 10 Helmsman bonus (19) Helmsman bonus (19) Helmsman bonus (19) 95 135 60 With wind mod no wind mod With wind mod 285 135 180 With lighting turbine Turbine With lighting turbine 570 270 360 Per min Per Min Per min 5,700 2,700 3,600 per Hour Per hour per Hour 342,000 162,000 216,000 Mph Mph Mph 64.77 30.68 40.91 Double move Double move Double move 129.55 61.36 81.82 Porpoise Porpoise Porpoise [with double move] 259.09 122.73 163.64 (Base speed + masterwork + Helmsman bonus)*(turbine[x2])*(wind[x1,x3]) = per round speed (Prs*10*60)= Feet per hour / 5280= miles per hour Mph*2= overland double movement speed or single move combat speed with porpoise Mph*4= overland movement (double move) with porpoise in effect. Helmsman bonus makes all the difference.
ReverendCow 04-22-06, 11:05 AM	Where'd you get all that? I mean, what book(s)? Also, "porpoise"? As in, a dolphine?
Lyinginbedmon 04-22-06, 11:47 AM	Where'd you get all that? I mean, what book(s)? Also, "porpoise"? As in, a dolphine? The Ebony Porpoise is a Living Figurehead from Stormwrack, and the Lightning Turbine is from the Arms and Equipment Guide. Helmsman is a psionic power from Stormwrack which essentially melds the mind of the user with a ship, increasing its speed
ReverendCow 04-22-06, 12:06 PM	Ahh, that rocks. Thanks, yo.
Lokiyn 04-22-06, 10:35 PM	Sorry about that forgot to put up the references, The sad thing is that i think you can increase that even more by adding on a Helmsman True item. Both powers provide unnamed bonus's to speed and both powers are different so mechanically they should stack.
KublaiKhan 04-23-06, 02:33 PM	Seems like I need to get ahold of the A&E guide....what's the lightning tubine do? Accelerates things?
Lyinginbedmon 04-23-06, 03:48 PM	Seems like I need to get ahold of the A&E guide....what's the lightning tubine do? Accelerates things? In storms and other lightning-rich environments, it either doubles the speed of the ship or grants it a speed of 90 ft., whichever is greater
Lokiyn 04-23-06, 03:51 PM	Seems like I need to get ahold of the A&E guide....what's the lightning tubine do? Accelerates things? I think it all broke down like this Take random ship Wind Favored Sails x3 movment Lightning tubine x2 speed if in storm (discribed as lightning powered immune to weather) Porpoise 6 hours a week double the movement speed again Helmsman (Seer 2) augmented to 19pp increases the ships speed by 50, helmsman, true (Seer 6) augmented to 19pp Increaes the ships speed by 30 Masterwork adds a +5 If you can add oars o the ship oars of Speed [storm] pumps it up with a +10 enhancment bonus to speed. Cloudkeel [Arms and equip] lets any ship fly So lets start with Elvish Wingship with a base speed of 40xwind [40+Helms{50}+Helm,T{30}+Master{5}]= 125 feet per round tactical speed in low wind Wind Favored Sails x3 = 375 ft per round Lightning Turbine x2 = 750 ft per round Porpoise x2 = 1500 ft per round. Double move= 3000 feet per round So .56 miles per round Or 5.6 miles per Min Or 340.9 miles per hour. Add cloudgathering orb to keep the weather stormy, and carefully drop Tornados Eyes to generate tornados in the center of town that your ship is immune to (as tornados are a weather effect) Yessss Bombing Runs are fun.
Lyinginbedmon 04-23-06, 04:10 PM	Add cloudgathering orb to keep the weather stormy, and carefully drop Tornados Eyes to generate tornados in the center of town that your ship is immune to (as tornados are a weather effect) Yessss Bombing Runs are fun. Where is the Cloud Gathering Orb from? In theory, an Orb of Storms would seem to be a better item, since it allows Control Weather 1/day, and Storm of Vengeance 1/month can be useful for problematic moments when you need a little 'divine assistance' #wink#wink#
Lokiyn 04-23-06, 04:41 PM	Where is the Cloud Gathering Orb from? In theory, an Orb of Storms would seem to be a better item, since it allows Control Weather 1/day, and Storm of Vengeance 1/month can be useful for problematic moments when you need a little 'divine assistance' #wink#wink# I recall that the orb is from the Stronghold builders guide and keeps the weather stormy for a 2 mile radius. although if its based on Control weather which i think it is then you would need to limit your movement to 12 miles per hour to keep up with the storm formation, since the power supply for the turbine is lightning, a team of shocker lizards ,10+ or so,should power the turbine fine.
ReverendCow 04-24-06, 01:11 AM	Sorry to go off-topic, but: This might be my last post in this thread while living in Kansas. On Monday, I will be moving to Utah, and I cannot guarantee that I will have internet access. In case I don't, you are some of the most evil people I've ever met, and I salute you. Thanks for the evil ideas, evil laughs, and evil inspirations.
KublaiKhan 04-24-06, 09:50 AM	Sorry to hear that, ReverendCow...good luck! Today's implement of destruction requires a Gust of Wind spell, a long, flexible hose, an iron grating, and a tank: The Vacuum Cleaner. Might need something a wee bit more powerful than a Gust of Wind spell...the general idea is to suck unattended objects into the hose--characters who fail a reflex or fort save would also be sucked in. Hang that along the bottom of your airship, and bingo--instant prison.
forrestfire15 04-24-06, 02:23 PM	how about this: get as many as possible a number of jovocs (tannar'ri from MMII) and drop from 200ft,. their aura of retribution deals damage equal to the number of damage they took to all creatures within 30ft (fort save DC15 half). Add a bunch of mane (BoVD p.170) and cause acid damage everywhere. Acidic cloud: When a mane dies, it dissolve into a cloud of noxous vapor. Anything within 10ft of a slain mane who fails a reflex save (DC20) takes 1d6 acid damage
KublaiKhan 04-24-06, 02:56 PM	Hrmmm...there's a low-level spell that allows the caster and a willing target to switch places [ as I recall, it's something like a level 1 spell ]....perhaps it'd be a good idea to throw that into an item? I can think of a thousand different uses for that item, too, from impact-activated troop insertion to jail escapes to canyon-crossing to...well, all sorts of other ways to have fun.
Lyinginbedmon 04-24-06, 05:11 PM	Hrmmm...there's a low-level spell that allows the caster and a willing target to switch places [ as I recall, it's something like a level 1 spell ]....perhaps it'd be a good idea to throw that into an item? I can think of a thousand different uses for that item, too, from impact-activated troop insertion to jail escapes to canyon-crossing to...well, all sorts of other ways to have fun. Benign Transposition, switches the positions of two willing subjects within 100ft + 10ft/level. Alternatively, Baleful Transposition switches any two subjects within 100ft. + 10ft/level, bit of either succeeds on a Will save the spell fails. Of course, in an item, I don't think the Will save would matter much
KublaiKhan 04-24-06, 06:29 PM	Benign Transposition, switches the positions of two willing subjects within 100ft + 10ft/level. Alternatively, Baleful Transposition switches any two subjects within 100ft. + 10ft/level, bit of either succeeds on a Will save the spell fails. Of course, in an item, I don't think the Will save would matter much Hey, just what I was looking for. And yeah, just throw that on an arrow, and you've got a teleportation arrow. Since it's only a DC 5 to hit the appropriate square....well, any decent adventuring party ought to have a couple Transposition Bolts.
KublaiKhan 04-25-06, 10:34 AM	Because I dislike 'bumping' threads without any content, today's citybusting idea: Wand of Dimension Door on cheap undead imbued with Retributive Strike--low-HP undead, like rats or something. Dimension Door them into walls and such, so that the negative energy bursts will extend from the walls. Might be a fun tactic for an arcane necromancer with a sick sense of humour.
ReverendCow 04-27-06, 07:05 PM	Hey, all. I won't be on as much as I used to be, but I'll be around. Yeah. Anyway, how about this: Craft a magical disease, that infects on contact, that will cause horrendous mutations in victims. Or, even better, get some Wendigo blood and modifiy it into a contact poison. BAM! Instant Wendigo infestation. Delivery over large areas might be difficult.
Rim-Soulfang 04-28-06, 03:23 PM	I didn't have time to read the entire thread, so I HOPE this has not been said before. Bear with me: Broom of Flying: 17,000 GP Wand of Earthquake: 18,000 GP Face of Enemy 13 MILES AWAY when his city explodes: PricelessSince wands of earthquake doesn't work, whatabout using the alarm-trap trick?
forrestfire15 04-28-06, 06:31 PM	Craft a magical disease, that infects on contact, that will cause horrendous mutations in victims. there already is a disese like that: warp touch from BoVD --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- or you could make something based off the descolada (from speaker for the dead by Orson Scott Card). the descolada is a disese the kill by changing the cell structure in victums.
forrestfire15 04-29-06, 08:12 PM	dropping 10,000+ lb of adamantine sling bullets in a concentrated aria could destroy almost anything. This also works with 10ft cubes of adamantine put into a portable hole past through ring gates from adamantine demiplane created by genisis power.
Lokiyn 04-30-06, 12:51 AM	dropping 10,000+ lb of adamantine sling bullets in a concentrated aria could destroy almost anything. This also works with 10ft cubes of adamantine put into a portable hole past through ring gates from adamantine demiplane created by genisis power. RAAAWWWRRRRR!!!!!! Genesis Abuse, Inaccurate Genesis abuse, must resist urge to trace ip and call on ninja horde. 1.) Genesis the Power does not let you do this 2.) Word of Genesis the Divine version does not let you do this 3.) Genesis the Arcane version does not disallow this and is only found in the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook. Beware the gingerbread golem who's speed is always 5 ft faster than its hunter.
mvincent 04-30-06, 01:25 AM	Genesis the Arcane version does not disallow this and is only found in the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook.And in the most current SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm)
BrowncoatF 04-30-06, 01:25 AM	I got this idea from martha stuart living. Start with 5,000 trolls, Chop fine untill each troll is is in 100 peices. insert each peice into air tight jar. An easy addition to this is to add a contigent cure serious wounds on the lids. Once you have your jars full of hot juicy troll load up your ships and drop on your friends. Once they realize what the heck is going on. They will have 50,000 trolls to try to kill. I doubt they have that much acid. The joy is watching slack jawed peasents with fire swating at anything that moves and burning down their own homes. I am not shure of the cost of a troll, but I imagine you could capture a few carefully and make more with what ever you start out with. Why use magic when you can use bio-terrorism. ;)
mvincent 04-30-06, 01:39 AM	Chop fine untill each troll is is in 100 peices.From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration): "Creatures with regeneration can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts. Severed parts die if they are not reattached. "
BrowncoatF 04-30-06, 01:46 AM	Ah yes I guess that should read chop corsly and Then it would require just a few more trolls. Curses foiled again!
Auburn 04-30-06, 02:42 AM	How much troll is required to be a troll instead of a piece of troll? How about bombing them with halves or quarters of trolls? Or catch some infectious zombies, put a parachute on them, and bomb with them.
mvincent 04-30-06, 01:17 PM	How much troll is required to be a troll instead of a piece of troll?As long you keep using the largest piece, you might be able to keep slicing it as small as you want (it might die of suffication without lungs though).
Lokiyn 04-30-06, 01:39 PM	And in the most current SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm) Read the source d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm that particular section hasn't been updated since 3.0 from the old srd i'm looking at and the new. It's a grandfather spell. it's only thing is that it doesn't disallow platinum planes, it doesn't even say you can specifically choose the materials The spellcaster determines the environment within the demiplane when he or she first casts genesis, reflecting most any desire the spellcaster can visualize. The spellcaster determines factors such as atmosphere, water, temperature, and the general shape of the terrain. This spell cannot create life (including vegetation), nor can it create construction (such as buildings, roads, wells, dungeons, and so forth). Thats it, no solid adamantine planes. Its not Explicitly Disallowed, but its implicitly illegal.
forrestfire15 05-01-06, 01:54 PM	Genesis the Power does not let you do this sorry, misread the discripton.
KublaiKhan 05-02-06, 11:12 AM	Thats it, no solid adamantine planes. Its not Explicitly Disallowed, but its implicitly illegal. Depends heavily on the DM...it's really not *that* imbalancing, with a sufficiently large campaign world. Keep in mind, you can't make the demiplane infinite, and the cost of casting it over and over again brings about diminishing returns after a while. That, and making a solid adamantine plane would be impractical, anyway--how are you going to mine it, if there's no place to Plane-Shift or Gate into? Now, for today's Wrongness: Smoke. Collect vast amounts of damp wood, and set huge fires upwind, and smoke everyone in the city out. Perhaps a bit of Control Weather to ensure that the conditions stay right for the smoke to stay close to ground level. Or one could set the fires in the sewers. Concealment/Cover throughout the whole city, difficulty breathing, morale difficulties...and you could always send in undead, who are, for all intents and purposes, immune to smoke, unless it's them that's smoking. Kinda makes me want to build a smoking zombie build.
forrestfire15 05-02-06, 08:41 PM	(1) build a rocket out of riverine and build a decanter of endless water into the tip of the rocket, have a sliding door on the bottem, and fill it with dirt. then set it on guiser setting for four+ days and the dirt will turn to mud, (2) stop the decanter, cast transmute mud to rock, the mud will turn to 2,000,000 gallons of rock, (3)hang it off the airship at least 50ft away from the hull, cast transmute rock to lava on the 2,000,000 gallons of rock to get 2,000,000 gallons of lava. (4)send a warlock with fell flight down to slide the sliding door off the rocket, and hopefully the rocket will fly from the lava shooting out and lava will rain from the sky! HA Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!! a rough digram (ignor the pereids): (1) ._________/| /(-.............} \_________.| ................\| (2) ._________/| /(-|||||||||} \_________.| ................\| (3) ..................(||) ..................(||) ____________||_______________ |....................................... ./ |________________________/ ............|..............| ............|..............| ............|..............| ............|..............| ............_________/| ........../(-||||||||||} ..........\_________.| ..........................\| (4) ........................................ ........}:mage: ._________/|.======================= /(-|||||||||======================== \_________.|..====================== ................\|
forrestfire15 05-02-06, 09:08 PM	Or just give them the Masterslaying enchantment, and keep the scabbards on your airships. add in the vorpal enchantment
KublaiKhan 05-03-06, 10:35 AM	Demiplane. Gates from the sewers of every one of your cities into that demiplane. Gate from the demiplane to *their* sewer system. Wall of Force over the exit. Hilarity Ensues.
ReverendCow 05-03-06, 07:44 PM	Glad to see you chuckleheads haven't given up on the eeeviiillll. :evillaugh If Genesis won't let you make a solid Adamantine demiplane, will it let you make one that's solid stone? Just average, run-of-the-mill stone? I liked the smoking zombie idea. How about a half-elemental zombie? Or a paraelemental smoke zombie?
forrestfire15 01-30-07, 04:12 PM	:bump:
Lyinginbedmon 01-30-07, 05:39 PM	Well, I'm sure that with all the releases since the last time this thread was posted in there must be some new concoction to blow apart the cities beneath. Let's see: Player's Handbook II Mysteries of Moonsea Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss Secrets of Xen'drik Monster Manual IV Dragons of Faerun Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords Faiths of Eberron Dragon Magic Complete Mage Dragonmarked Cityscape Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells And that's just to the end of 2006. Now, I already know you can do all sorts of crazy things with Tome of Battle and Complete Mage, I'm sure it's just a matter of time before someone else here figures something else to do with these :D