Alchemical Equipment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alchemical Equipment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Giant_Moth
03-05-07, 06:42 PM Hiyall, happymoth needs your advice.

I recently rolled up a rogue of level 10, and I decided to focus some on craft(alchemy), as well as carrying a powerfull reptertoire of alchemy stuff to use, toss, and whatever else you might do with them.

Problem is, there isn't much Alchemical equipment that's usefull at higher levels. If even usefull at all. There's some nice stuff, like the flash pellets from Complete Adventurer, although the things from Complete Scoundrel is pretty laughable. Liquid Sunlight, need I say more?

So I'm looking for alternate sources of alchemy equipment. My DM wont let me come up with new, so I need to find books or other sources of alchemical equipment.

Thanks.
Mastel
03-05-07, 06:58 PM you need to be a spellcaster to craft alchemy.
To my taste there is nothing good at high level but poison.
MourninStar
03-05-07, 06:59 PM The Arms and Equipment Guide has several new alchemical items (located on page 32). The Restful Candle allows characters to heal ability damage, Fleetfoot quintuples your move speed, and Vicious Bleeder deals Bleeding wounds to a creature (one additional damage/round).

That's hardly a comprehensive list, but you get the idea. Also, when you make items with your Craft(Alchemy) checks, you can up the Save DCs for those items; the ones given in PHB and Complete Adventurer are only the average Save DCs for those items.
NerdNumber1
03-05-07, 07:07 PM I think the cost is way to high, but ditherbombs (from Races of the Dragon) are the only alchemical explosives I know of. They ignore the hardness of stone and the larger ones have 10 and 15ft blasts. They are super expensive though, so I would only chose them if you could get them for a lower price or have a lot of extra gold.
FrostWolf
03-05-07, 07:18 PM Eberron has a class called the Alchemist Savant. And also a weapon called ans Alchemist's Blade. it discharges an alchemical vial into your target, so you do both the weapon's bamage, and the alchemy as well.

But you won't find anything usefull for higher levels. I'd ask the DM to let you add 10 to the DC to double the effect.
Arem_K
03-05-07, 07:45 PM Complete adventurer has some nice alchemy items, but they are mostly for minor stat boosts or improving your weapons.

Alchemist's fire can be used throughout the game with the right DM. It only takes a touch attack and it is sneak attack-able. That still would probably not be enough, but see if you can argue that any intelligent creature would chose to spend the next round trying to put the fire out. That gives you a ranged touch attack which deals 1d6 plus sneak attack and causes the target to forfeit the next round. Not a bad deal at all. Of course, you are screwed if you fight a lot of things with fire resistance.
Giant_Moth
03-05-07, 08:16 PM There's nothing that says I have to be a spellcaster to craft alchemy... it's not magic, it's chemistry(basically.)

You said something about uping the dc. How can this be done, ruleswise?

Alchemical equipment is handy on rogues, things like acid and holy water can come in handy when you can't do much else. For example, if you're fighting undead or constructs, the rogue can't do much but annoy them. But yeah, are there any rules to up their dc, effectiveness, etc?

Wait! Rewind! Granade Like Items triggers sneak attack?!
Arem_K
03-05-07, 08:26 PM Wait! Rewind! Granade Like Items triggers sneak attack?!

Yup, they are just another weapon.
Mastel
03-05-07, 08:29 PM There's nothing that says I have to be a spellcaster to craft alchemy... it's not magic, it's chemistry(basically.)
look under the reference number 1 at craft alchemy items.
PHB p.71 you must be a spellcaster to craft any of these items
FrostWolf
03-05-07, 08:37 PM Some feats for you.

Greadier, and Mad Alchemists from PHBII. Makes Alchemy better combat wise.
Giant_Moth
03-05-07, 08:42 PM look under the reference number 1 at craft alchemy items.
PHB p.71 you must be a spellcaster to craft any of these items

What a bunch of bollocks. I'll have a talk with my GM about that, we'll change it. Alchemy isnt supposed to have something to do with magic in the first place...
Mastel
03-05-07, 08:51 PM What a bunch of bollocks. I'll have a talk with my GM about that, we'll change it. Alchemy isnt supposed to have something to do with magic in the first place...

Alchemy as always haved someting to do with magic.
You can change it if you don't like it. I don't think the bollock will be offended.
Kouk
03-06-07, 01:20 AM In older versions, anyone could use alchemy even if they weren't a spellcaster. I think it is perfectly fine to rule it as not really needing that requirement, why would a wizard invest a ton into alchemical fire when he could make a huge ball of fire for instance. Nevertheless strictly speaking alchemy requires at least some spellcasting class level.

Don't forget gunpowder, or the magical smokepowder if the DM allows it.
Giant_Moth
03-06-07, 08:13 AM Hrmf. I think it's completly wrong that Alchemy requires spellcasting. What dimwit came up with that idea anyway? Alchemy has always, in myth and legends, been a seperate fantasy to magic. It's always had it's own mysteries, and the two were rarely mixed. Alchemy even has historical backing... creating acid, alchemical or lightsticks fire is a thing you can do in real life. It's chemistry for crying out loud!
Rakasha#5
03-06-07, 11:47 AM Speaking of alchemey I'm also interested in some better alchemey items but have CA and Arms and Equipment, for more alchemist stuff what would be a good suggestion for a book to buy?
Mastel
03-06-07, 05:21 PM [QUOTE=Kouk;11679531]In older versions, anyone could use alchemy even if they weren't a spellcaster. QUOTE]

3E Alchemy: class skill for bard, sorcerer, wizard. From PHB 3e

2E Nonweapon prificiencies: alchemy ,only wizard. from player's option spell & magic.
unfortunate_crow
03-06-07, 05:43 PM Would a character use the alchemy skill to create gunpowder? Would they need to be a spellcaster for this?
Mastel
03-06-07, 06:29 PM Would a character use the alchemy skill to create gunpowder? Would they need to be a spellcaster for this?

Yes
Gwenfloor
03-06-07, 07:02 PM Basically, by looking at the material components for spells in the PHB, plus this new information, spell casters are basically scientists. A pinch of sulfur for a fireball? A set of wires, a lemon, and a glass surface for scrying? Need to be a spell caster to be potent in chemistry? Come on, spell casters are just using advanced technology and passing it off as magic!
unfortunate_crow
03-06-07, 07:27 PM Yes

Yes on both? Why would somebody need to be a spellcaster to make gunpowder?
Mastel
03-06-07, 07:31 PM Yes on both? Why would somebody need to be a spellcaster to make gunpowder?

I don't make the rules, i just read it.

If you need a explication Gwenfloor give a good one:
Basically, by looking at the material components for spells in the PHB, plus this new information, spell casters are basically scientists. A pinch of sulfur for a fireball? A set of wires, a lemon, and a glass surface for scrying? Need to be a spell caster to be potent in chemistry? Come on, spell casters are just using advanced technology and passing it off as magic!
Arem_K
03-06-07, 08:56 PM Alchemy as always haved someting to do with magic.
You can change it if you don't like it. I don't think the bollock will be offended.

Alchemy usually implied doing stuff like turning lead into gold, however. D&D alchemy acts more like chemistry. Of course, there are some alchemy items, like the weapon capsule that turns your weapon into a ghost touch weapon, that seem distinctly magical.

Edit: You are right on the rules of course. I am just arguing against the reasons for making alchemy spellcaster only.
Mastel
03-06-07, 09:02 PM Edit: You are right on the rules of course. I am just arguing against the reasons for making alchemy spellcaster only.

it always good to read it!
I would make it a cross-class skill for non spellcaster, at best.
Gwenfloor
03-06-07, 09:03 PM Someone should make an Alchemist Core Class.
HxHunter
03-06-07, 09:29 PM Speaking of alchemey I'm also interested in some better alchemey items but have CA and Arms and Equipment, for more alchemist stuff what would be a good suggestion for a book to buy?

You might wanna ask at the CO boards, there was some discussion about alchemical items and a compilation of them.

@Gwenflor. If you use google search you might be able to found one here at Cs&PrCs, lost track of the link. But I think it is based on the FMA anime.

I was thinking a similar idea when playing FF Tactics Advance (like them, though Sages have an edge over them). An alchemist is an arcanist thats has an edge casting spells with material components, it might be able to eschew materials, craft potions and ignore verbal components if he has the material components (similar to the Alchemist in Wizardry 8).

EDIT: Found the link

Alchemical Devices: Optimized Selections and Crafting Strategies
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=734968
NerdNumber1
03-07-07, 02:04 AM Passing off alchemy as an arcane art to change lead into gold is ignorant. In its begining, the terms alchemy and chemistry were interchangable. Later alchemy got associated with magic more than science, so it was abandoned. Although many alchemical ideas were flawed, others were quite astounding. I'd let non-casters have craft (alchemy), because alchemy in d&d is a pitiful substitution for magic and mages don't need it.
Bhaal006
03-07-07, 12:16 PM Back to the OP, their are priest bullets in the libris mortis, i just put acid or alchemist fire in those, gives you better range on those.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Giant_Moth 03-05-07, 06:42 PM	Hiyall, happymoth needs your advice. I recently rolled up a rogue of level 10, and I decided to focus some on craft(alchemy), as well as carrying a powerfull reptertoire of alchemy stuff to use, toss, and whatever else you might do with them. Problem is, there isn't much Alchemical equipment that's usefull at higher levels. If even usefull at all. There's some nice stuff, like the flash pellets from Complete Adventurer, although the things from Complete Scoundrel is pretty laughable. Liquid Sunlight, need I say more? So I'm looking for alternate sources of alchemy equipment. My DM wont let me come up with new, so I need to find books or other sources of alchemical equipment. Thanks.
Mastel 03-05-07, 06:58 PM	you need to be a spellcaster to craft alchemy. To my taste there is nothing good at high level but poison.
MourninStar 03-05-07, 06:59 PM	The Arms and Equipment Guide has several new alchemical items (located on page 32). The Restful Candle allows characters to heal ability damage, Fleetfoot quintuples your move speed, and Vicious Bleeder deals Bleeding wounds to a creature (one additional damage/round). That's hardly a comprehensive list, but you get the idea. Also, when you make items with your Craft(Alchemy) checks, you can up the Save DCs for those items; the ones given in PHB and Complete Adventurer are only the average Save DCs for those items.
NerdNumber1 03-05-07, 07:07 PM	I think the cost is way to high, but ditherbombs (from Races of the Dragon) are the only alchemical explosives I know of. They ignore the hardness of stone and the larger ones have 10 and 15ft blasts. They are super expensive though, so I would only chose them if you could get them for a lower price or have a lot of extra gold.
FrostWolf 03-05-07, 07:18 PM	Eberron has a class called the Alchemist Savant. And also a weapon called ans Alchemist's Blade. it discharges an alchemical vial into your target, so you do both the weapon's bamage, and the alchemy as well. But you won't find anything usefull for higher levels. I'd ask the DM to let you add 10 to the DC to double the effect.
Arem_K 03-05-07, 07:45 PM	Complete adventurer has some nice alchemy items, but they are mostly for minor stat boosts or improving your weapons. Alchemist's fire can be used throughout the game with the right DM. It only takes a touch attack and it is sneak attack-able. That still would probably not be enough, but see if you can argue that any intelligent creature would chose to spend the next round trying to put the fire out. That gives you a ranged touch attack which deals 1d6 plus sneak attack and causes the target to forfeit the next round. Not a bad deal at all. Of course, you are screwed if you fight a lot of things with fire resistance.
Giant_Moth 03-05-07, 08:16 PM	There's nothing that says I have to be a spellcaster to craft alchemy... it's not magic, it's chemistry(basically.) You said something about uping the dc. How can this be done, ruleswise? Alchemical equipment is handy on rogues, things like acid and holy water can come in handy when you can't do much else. For example, if you're fighting undead or constructs, the rogue can't do much but annoy them. But yeah, are there any rules to up their dc, effectiveness, etc? Wait! Rewind! Granade Like Items triggers sneak attack?!
Arem_K 03-05-07, 08:26 PM	Wait! Rewind! Granade Like Items triggers sneak attack?! Yup, they are just another weapon.
Mastel 03-05-07, 08:29 PM	There's nothing that says I have to be a spellcaster to craft alchemy... it's not magic, it's chemistry(basically.) look under the reference number 1 at craft alchemy items. PHB p.71 you must be a spellcaster to craft any of these items
FrostWolf 03-05-07, 08:37 PM	Some feats for you. Greadier, and Mad Alchemists from PHBII. Makes Alchemy better combat wise.
Giant_Moth 03-05-07, 08:42 PM	look under the reference number 1 at craft alchemy items. PHB p.71 you must be a spellcaster to craft any of these items What a bunch of bollocks. I'll have a talk with my GM about that, we'll change it. Alchemy isnt supposed to have something to do with magic in the first place...
Mastel 03-05-07, 08:51 PM	What a bunch of bollocks. I'll have a talk with my GM about that, we'll change it. Alchemy isnt supposed to have something to do with magic in the first place... Alchemy as always haved someting to do with magic. You can change it if you don't like it. I don't think the bollock will be offended.
Kouk 03-06-07, 01:20 AM	In older versions, anyone could use alchemy even if they weren't a spellcaster. I think it is perfectly fine to rule it as not really needing that requirement, why would a wizard invest a ton into alchemical fire when he could make a huge ball of fire for instance. Nevertheless strictly speaking alchemy requires at least some spellcasting class level. Don't forget gunpowder, or the magical smokepowder if the DM allows it.
Giant_Moth 03-06-07, 08:13 AM	Hrmf. I think it's completly wrong that Alchemy requires spellcasting. What dimwit came up with that idea anyway? Alchemy has always, in myth and legends, been a seperate fantasy to magic. It's always had it's own mysteries, and the two were rarely mixed. Alchemy even has historical backing... creating acid, alchemical or lightsticks fire is a thing you can do in real life. It's chemistry for crying out loud!
Rakasha#5 03-06-07, 11:47 AM	Speaking of alchemey I'm also interested in some better alchemey items but have CA and Arms and Equipment, for more alchemist stuff what would be a good suggestion for a book to buy?
Mastel 03-06-07, 05:21 PM	[QUOTE=Kouk;11679531]In older versions, anyone could use alchemy even if they weren't a spellcaster. QUOTE] 3E Alchemy: class skill for bard, sorcerer, wizard. From PHB 3e 2E Nonweapon prificiencies: alchemy ,only wizard. from player's option spell & magic.
unfortunate_crow 03-06-07, 05:43 PM	Would a character use the alchemy skill to create gunpowder? Would they need to be a spellcaster for this?
Mastel 03-06-07, 06:29 PM	Would a character use the alchemy skill to create gunpowder? Would they need to be a spellcaster for this? Yes
Gwenfloor 03-06-07, 07:02 PM	Basically, by looking at the material components for spells in the PHB, plus this new information, spell casters are basically scientists. A pinch of sulfur for a fireball? A set of wires, a lemon, and a glass surface for scrying? Need to be a spell caster to be potent in chemistry? Come on, spell casters are just using advanced technology and passing it off as magic!
unfortunate_crow 03-06-07, 07:27 PM	Yes Yes on both? Why would somebody need to be a spellcaster to make gunpowder?
Mastel 03-06-07, 07:31 PM	Yes on both? Why would somebody need to be a spellcaster to make gunpowder? I don't make the rules, i just read it. If you need a explication Gwenfloor give a good one: Basically, by looking at the material components for spells in the PHB, plus this new information, spell casters are basically scientists. A pinch of sulfur for a fireball? A set of wires, a lemon, and a glass surface for scrying? Need to be a spell caster to be potent in chemistry? Come on, spell casters are just using advanced technology and passing it off as magic!
Arem_K 03-06-07, 08:56 PM	Alchemy as always haved someting to do with magic. You can change it if you don't like it. I don't think the bollock will be offended. Alchemy usually implied doing stuff like turning lead into gold, however. D&D alchemy acts more like chemistry. Of course, there are some alchemy items, like the weapon capsule that turns your weapon into a ghost touch weapon, that seem distinctly magical. Edit: You are right on the rules of course. I am just arguing against the reasons for making alchemy spellcaster only.
Mastel 03-06-07, 09:02 PM	Edit: You are right on the rules of course. I am just arguing against the reasons for making alchemy spellcaster only. it always good to read it! I would make it a cross-class skill for non spellcaster, at best.
Gwenfloor 03-06-07, 09:03 PM	Someone should make an Alchemist Core Class.
HxHunter 03-06-07, 09:29 PM	Speaking of alchemey I'm also interested in some better alchemey items but have CA and Arms and Equipment, for more alchemist stuff what would be a good suggestion for a book to buy? You might wanna ask at the CO boards, there was some discussion about alchemical items and a compilation of them. @Gwenflor. If you use google search you might be able to found one here at Cs&PrCs, lost track of the link. But I think it is based on the FMA anime. I was thinking a similar idea when playing FF Tactics Advance (like them, though Sages have an edge over them). An alchemist is an arcanist thats has an edge casting spells with material components, it might be able to eschew materials, craft potions and ignore verbal components if he has the material components (similar to the Alchemist in Wizardry 8). EDIT: Found the link Alchemical Devices: Optimized Selections and Crafting Strategies http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=734968
NerdNumber1 03-07-07, 02:04 AM	Passing off alchemy as an arcane art to change lead into gold is ignorant. In its begining, the terms alchemy and chemistry were interchangable. Later alchemy got associated with magic more than science, so it was abandoned. Although many alchemical ideas were flawed, others were quite astounding. I'd let non-casters have craft (alchemy), because alchemy in d&d is a pitiful substitution for magic and mages don't need it.
Bhaal006 03-07-07, 12:16 PM	Back to the OP, their are priest bullets in the libris mortis, i just put acid or alchemist fire in those, gives you better range on those.