alternate chains; weighted, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed [Archive] - Wizards Community

alternate chains; weighted, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Patrick Draken-Korin
09-16-06, 01:11 AM Here's an alternative to the spiked chain in the PHB; it uses a couple fixes common to the boards and offers some variation. if you like it good, or if you can use it to make a fixe you like, that's good too. Enjoy;

Exotic.FW.7) Chain, Weighted: melee, two-handed; costs 5 Gp; 1d6 bludgeoning damage & 1d6 bludgeoning damage; critical 20/x2 & 20/x2; no range increment; weighs 8lb; metal composition (10 hardness, 8 hp).
- A length of sturdy chain that is weighted at each end much like the head of a flail.
- The weighted chain (normal, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed, razor) is a multipurpose weapon; it can be used as a double weapon and it can be used as a reach weapon. Switching between methods requires a move action (reach to double, double to reach).
- The weighted chain (normal, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed, razor) is double weapon. A creature can choose to fight using a double weapon as if it were wielding a light weapon and a one-handed weapon (this is multiweapon fighting). A creature can also choose to attack with only one end of a double weapon. If a creature is wielding a double weapon with only one hand (this can only be done with undersized weapons), then the creature has to attack with only one end (it can’t use the weapon as a double weapon).
The weighted chain (normal, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed, razor) is a reach weapon that can attack opponents 10ft away and can be used to attack adjacent enemies. While being wielded as a double weapon, the weighted chain has no reach (adjacent targets only)
- You gain a +2 bonus on disarm checks made with a weighted chain (normal, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed, razor).
- You can use a weighted chain (normal, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed, razor) to make trip attacks. If tripped in return after a failed attempt, you can drop the chain in order to avoid being tripped.
- You can apply the Weapon Finesse feat to the weighted chain (normal, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed).
- The heavy chain, spiked chain, barbed chain, bladed chain, and razor chain each share weapon equivalencies with the weighted chain. (For feats like weapon focus and improve critical).
Exotic.FW.7.1) Chain, Heavy: costs 10 Gp; 2d4 bludgeoning damage & 2d4 bludgeoning damage; weighs 12lb; metal composition (10 hardness, 12 hp).
- Merely a heavier version of the weighted chain, the ends are much like the head of a heavy flail.
- The heavy chain is an awkward weapon; apply a -1 penalty to the wielder’s AC.
Exotic.FW.7.2) Chain, Spiked: costs 25 Gp; 1d6 bludgeoning and piercing damage & 1d6 bludgeoning and piercing damage; weighs 10lb; metal composition (10 hardness, 10 hp).
- The spiked chain is a weighted chain that has spikes, the ends are much like the terrible head of a spiked flail.
- You gain a +1 bonus on intimidate checks made while fighting (or threatening) with a spiked chain.
Exotic.FW.7.3) Chain, Barbed: costs 60 Gp; 1d6 bludgeoning and piercing damage & 1d6 bludgeoning and piercing damage; critical 19/x2 & 19/x2; weighs 10lb; metal composition (10 hardness, 10 hp).
- A spiked chain that is crafted for it’s sharp barbs, making it harder to use but more dangerous in the hands of a skilled thief.
- The barbed flail is an unwieldy weapon; apply an additional -2 penalty to attacks with the barbed flail (a non-proficient wielder has a total penalty of -6).
- The barbed flail can be used to deal additional damage with a sneak attack. As long as the wielder has a at least 5 ranks in sleight of hand, sneak attacks with a barbed flail deal an additional +2 sneak attack damage. This bonus damage applies on critical hits.
Exotic.FW.7.4) Chain, Bladed: costs 45 Gp; 1d6 slashing or piercing damage & 1d6 slashing or piercing damage; critical 19/x2 & 19/x2; weighs 10lb; metal composition (10 hardness, 10 hp).
- The bladed chain has three edged knives on either end, rather than heads reminiscent of a flail; this makes the weapon harder to use, but offers a different style of combat.
- The bladed chain is harder to use as a double weapon, but deals more damage; apply a -1 penalty on all attacks as a double weapon, but apply a +1 bonus on damage.
- The bladed chain is easier to use as a reach weapon, but deals less damage; apply a +1 bonus on attacks as a reach weapon, but apply a -1 penalty on damage.
Kraleck
09-16-06, 09:04 AM *whistles* That is some impressive stuff. You may want to change your "spiked chain" to "weighted spiked chain" (in name only). This is a well thought out idea. 9.0/10
dengarbountyhunter
09-16-06, 02:45 PM Even considering I don't like spiked chains and similar physically impossible to wield (and overpowered) weapons*, I think that's good work. Original and balanced compared to the original** weapon.

*That's only my opinion on spiked chains, no offence meant.
**It's original (new) compared to the original (old) weapon !?
What a whacky sentence!
Darth Sephiroth
09-16-06, 02:50 PM could you please clean up the formatting, it seems to be the perfect fit for what I wanted in my thread and I'd like to be able to read it easier
Patrick Draken-Korin
09-16-06, 04:01 PM Just the bare stats;

Weighted Chain: Exotic Two-Handed Melee Weapon, Costs 5 Gp, Weighs 8lb (10 hardness, 8 hp)
Deals 1d6 & 1d6 bludgeoning damage, Critical 20/x2
- Double or Reach weapon (switching methods requies a move action), apply Weapon Finesse feat, +2 Disarm bonus, Trip weapon, share Weapon Equivalencies with other chains

Heavy Chain: Exotic Two-Handed Melee Weapon, Costs 10 Gp, Weighs 12lb (10 hardness, 12 hp)
Deals 2d4 & 2d4 bludgeoning damage, Critical 20/x2
- Double or Reach weapon (switching methods requies a move action), apply Weapon Finesse feat, +2 Disarm bonus, Trip weapon, share Weapon Equivalencies with other chains, -1 AC penalty

Spiked Chain: Exotic Two-Handed Melee Weapon, Costs 25 Gp, Weighs 10lb (10 hardness, 10 hp)
Deals 1d6 & 1d6 bludgeoning and piercing damage, Critical 20/x2
- Double or Reach weapon (switching methods requies a move action), apply Weapon Finesse feat, +2 Disarm bonus, Trip weapon, share Weapon Equivalencies with other chains, +1 bonus on intimidate checks

Barbed Chain: Exotic Two-Handed Melee Weapon, Costs 60 Gp, Weighs 10lb (10 hardness, 10 hp)
Deals 1d6 & 1d6 bludgeoning and piercing damage, Critical 19-20/x2
- Double or Reach weapon (switching methods requies a move action), apply Weapon Finesse feat, +2 Disarm bonus, Trip weapon, share Weapon Equivalencies with other chains, -2 penalty on attacks, sneak attack as the barbed dagger in Complete Adventurer

Bladed Chain: Exotic Two-Handed Melee Weapon, Costs 45 Gp, Weighs 10lb (10 hardness, 10 hp)
Deals 1d6 & 1d6 slashing or piercing damage, Critical 19/x2
- Double or Reach weapon (switching methods requies a move action), apply Weapon Finesse feat, +2 Disarm bonus, Trip weapon, share Weapon Equivalencies with other chains, +1 bonus on intimidate checks, as Reach weapon (+1 attack, -1 damage), as Double weapon (-1 attack, +1 damage)
Waterhammer
09-16-06, 11:03 PM The spiked chain in the PHB is not a double weapon.
Your weapon ideas are cool, but none of them should be double weapons at any time. Or if so then give them a high chance of injuring the wielder. If you doubt this; it's easy to prove. Go to the hardware store, and buy a 10' length of chain. Grab it in the middle, and attack a power pole or something similar. Careful you might hurt yourself.
Patrick Draken-Korin
09-17-06, 01:56 AM Oh, no I made up something that wasn't in the PHB, I must erase it immediately!...

Now, seriously, how many chain weapons have you seen across the various D&D works? Some are double, others are reach, a few are both. The rules allow for such an occurance.

As for reality being the first and final say as to what is acceptable in my game or anyone elses... dream on.

Here's my factoring system;
1. Balance (against whatever base standard you accept)
2. internal-consistency
3. logic (cause and effect)
4. flavor/fluff/coolness
5. relation to reality
6. precedence

Personally, I can't say how others work, and won't say how they should, but that's my system.

As far as using a weighted chain (the most realistic weapon in the lot as far as I'm concerned), of course I'm not going to try that. But wait. I'm a nerd, an intellectual and not a fighter. I'd say I've got simple weapon's proficiency, but nothing more. So yeah, I'd hurt myself. I'd probably hurt myself using a light flail or any sword well. Hmph, the only time I tried using a longbow I skinned the my arm.

Now tell me that a length of chain found in a hardware store is balanced for combat. This isn't D20 apocalypse where everything is salvaged; in D&D a weapon is MADE to be a weapon; the light pick is not for mining, the sickle isn't off the farm, and a weighted chain isn't pulled from a draw bridge or a mine.

Thanks for the dash of reality but as you can see, it's low on my to do list. Justifying things in one direction or another isn't as hard as actually dealing with them, so here's this; rule 0 and the fact you don't have to use it.

Game happy.
SinisterSamurai
09-17-06, 01:52 PM You go, girl! *snaps fingers*
I'm all for it, personally. I've got a character that wants to use asymmetrical chains. An anchor on one end, and big-game shark-fishing meat hook on the other. To him, it's a buff sailor's take on the Japanese kusarigama. (Weight-chain-sickle)

Q1:
With your mechanic, would it still be a move equivalent action to switch from one ranged end of the chain to the other? (Reach A to Reach B) Or would it be two move equivalents (Reach A to Double, Double to Reach B) with a feat that allows the switch to be one move action?
This mechanic is not just for asymmetrical chains with two different heads like the kusarigama, but for chains where each head has a different magical enhancment. (IE, Fire Damage on one end and Lightning Damage on the other, for instance.)
Q2: If the chain gets sundered, is it destroyed? Does it become a one-handed chain with no reach? Or does it become two one-handed chains that can't be used as reach weapons anymore? I can't actually find any double-weapon sunder rules in the SRD or the Errata.
Patrick Draken-Korin
09-17-06, 05:19 PM Yeah, I think switching from reach A to reach B would have to be a move action. I hadn't mentioned it, as these chains are symetrical, but it's a good point, especially for magical ones.

As for Q2; I've never seen any rules for this either. I play that you can sunder each end separately, or break it down the middle (breaking the entire object). Seeing as I allow characters to repair destroyed magical gear if the have the appropriate feat and pay 1/2 the creation cost, sundering actually happens occasionally; they just rebuild it.
Kradlo
09-18-06, 09:45 PM And strangest of all:

Chain: Chain has hardness 10 and 5 hit points. It can be burst on a DC 26 Strength check. Wt: 2 lb. Cost: 30 gp.

Notice that a normal chain costs 5 gp more than a spiked chain? Iron chains are apparently worth three times their weight in silver - 2 pounds of silver would be 10 gp.

I'm telling you, when my character finds iron chains in the dungeon, he knows he's struck gold!
Patrick Draken-Korin
09-18-06, 11:34 PM Yeah, that is rather insane; I think (and play) that it's a typo; it's 3 Gp in my games for 10ft (2lb) of common chain.

Sorry, but you have to wait till you find an iron door before celbrating.;)

That is unless you just like iron. actually that could be a good instanity for a character; cheers any time the loot includes metal, regardless of whether it's platinum or iron. you'de just have to be playing a game where the others are honest enough that they make sure he gets a real share of the loot, rathern than chains and crowbars.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Patrick Draken-Korin 09-16-06, 01:11 AM	Here's an alternative to the spiked chain in the PHB; it uses a couple fixes common to the boards and offers some variation. if you like it good, or if you can use it to make a fixe you like, that's good too. Enjoy; Exotic.FW.7) Chain, Weighted: melee, two-handed; costs 5 Gp; 1d6 bludgeoning damage & 1d6 bludgeoning damage; critical 20/x2 & 20/x2; no range increment; weighs 8lb; metal composition (10 hardness, 8 hp). - A length of sturdy chain that is weighted at each end much like the head of a flail. - The weighted chain (normal, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed, razor) is a multipurpose weapon; it can be used as a double weapon and it can be used as a reach weapon. Switching between methods requires a move action (reach to double, double to reach). - The weighted chain (normal, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed, razor) is double weapon. A creature can choose to fight using a double weapon as if it were wielding a light weapon and a one-handed weapon (this is multiweapon fighting). A creature can also choose to attack with only one end of a double weapon. If a creature is wielding a double weapon with only one hand (this can only be done with undersized weapons), then the creature has to attack with only one end (it can’t use the weapon as a double weapon). The weighted chain (normal, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed, razor) is a reach weapon that can attack opponents 10ft away and can be used to attack adjacent enemies. While being wielded as a double weapon, the weighted chain has no reach (adjacent targets only) - You gain a +2 bonus on disarm checks made with a weighted chain (normal, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed, razor). - You can use a weighted chain (normal, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed, razor) to make trip attacks. If tripped in return after a failed attempt, you can drop the chain in order to avoid being tripped. - You can apply the Weapon Finesse feat to the weighted chain (normal, heavy, spiked, barbed, bladed). - The heavy chain, spiked chain, barbed chain, bladed chain, and razor chain each share weapon equivalencies with the weighted chain. (For feats like weapon focus and improve critical). Exotic.FW.7.1) Chain, Heavy: costs 10 Gp; 2d4 bludgeoning damage & 2d4 bludgeoning damage; weighs 12lb; metal composition (10 hardness, 12 hp). - Merely a heavier version of the weighted chain, the ends are much like the head of a heavy flail. - The heavy chain is an awkward weapon; apply a -1 penalty to the wielder’s AC. Exotic.FW.7.2) Chain, Spiked: costs 25 Gp; 1d6 bludgeoning and piercing damage & 1d6 bludgeoning and piercing damage; weighs 10lb; metal composition (10 hardness, 10 hp). - The spiked chain is a weighted chain that has spikes, the ends are much like the terrible head of a spiked flail. - You gain a +1 bonus on intimidate checks made while fighting (or threatening) with a spiked chain. Exotic.FW.7.3) Chain, Barbed: costs 60 Gp; 1d6 bludgeoning and piercing damage & 1d6 bludgeoning and piercing damage; critical 19/x2 & 19/x2; weighs 10lb; metal composition (10 hardness, 10 hp). - A spiked chain that is crafted for it’s sharp barbs, making it harder to use but more dangerous in the hands of a skilled thief. - The barbed flail is an unwieldy weapon; apply an additional -2 penalty to attacks with the barbed flail (a non-proficient wielder has a total penalty of -6). - The barbed flail can be used to deal additional damage with a sneak attack. As long as the wielder has a at least 5 ranks in sleight of hand, sneak attacks with a barbed flail deal an additional +2 sneak attack damage. This bonus damage applies on critical hits. Exotic.FW.7.4) Chain, Bladed: costs 45 Gp; 1d6 slashing or piercing damage & 1d6 slashing or piercing damage; critical 19/x2 & 19/x2; weighs 10lb; metal composition (10 hardness, 10 hp). - The bladed chain has three edged knives on either end, rather than heads reminiscent of a flail; this makes the weapon harder to use, but offers a different style of combat. - The bladed chain is harder to use as a double weapon, but deals more damage; apply a -1 penalty on all attacks as a double weapon, but apply a +1 bonus on damage. - The bladed chain is easier to use as a reach weapon, but deals less damage; apply a +1 bonus on attacks as a reach weapon, but apply a -1 penalty on damage.
Kraleck 09-16-06, 09:04 AM	whistles That is some impressive stuff. You may want to change your "spiked chain" to "weighted spiked chain" (in name only). This is a well thought out idea. 9.0/10
dengarbountyhunter 09-16-06, 02:45 PM	Even considering I don't like spiked chains and similar physically impossible to wield (and overpowered) weapons, I think that's good work. Original and balanced compared to the original* weapon. That's only my opinion on spiked chains, no offence meant. *It's original (new) compared to the original (old) weapon !? What a whacky sentence!
Darth Sephiroth 09-16-06, 02:50 PM	could you please clean up the formatting, it seems to be the perfect fit for what I wanted in my thread and I'd like to be able to read it easier
Patrick Draken-Korin 09-16-06, 04:01 PM	Just the bare stats; Weighted Chain: Exotic Two-Handed Melee Weapon, Costs 5 Gp, Weighs 8lb (10 hardness, 8 hp) Deals 1d6 & 1d6 bludgeoning damage, Critical 20/x2 - Double or Reach weapon (switching methods requies a move action), apply Weapon Finesse feat, +2 Disarm bonus, Trip weapon, share Weapon Equivalencies with other chains Heavy Chain: Exotic Two-Handed Melee Weapon, Costs 10 Gp, Weighs 12lb (10 hardness, 12 hp) Deals 2d4 & 2d4 bludgeoning damage, Critical 20/x2 - Double or Reach weapon (switching methods requies a move action), apply Weapon Finesse feat, +2 Disarm bonus, Trip weapon, share Weapon Equivalencies with other chains, -1 AC penalty Spiked Chain: Exotic Two-Handed Melee Weapon, Costs 25 Gp, Weighs 10lb (10 hardness, 10 hp) Deals 1d6 & 1d6 bludgeoning and piercing damage, Critical 20/x2 - Double or Reach weapon (switching methods requies a move action), apply Weapon Finesse feat, +2 Disarm bonus, Trip weapon, share Weapon Equivalencies with other chains, +1 bonus on intimidate checks Barbed Chain: Exotic Two-Handed Melee Weapon, Costs 60 Gp, Weighs 10lb (10 hardness, 10 hp) Deals 1d6 & 1d6 bludgeoning and piercing damage, Critical 19-20/x2 - Double or Reach weapon (switching methods requies a move action), apply Weapon Finesse feat, +2 Disarm bonus, Trip weapon, share Weapon Equivalencies with other chains, -2 penalty on attacks, sneak attack as the barbed dagger in Complete Adventurer Bladed Chain: Exotic Two-Handed Melee Weapon, Costs 45 Gp, Weighs 10lb (10 hardness, 10 hp) Deals 1d6 & 1d6 slashing or piercing damage, Critical 19/x2 - Double or Reach weapon (switching methods requies a move action), apply Weapon Finesse feat, +2 Disarm bonus, Trip weapon, share Weapon Equivalencies with other chains, +1 bonus on intimidate checks, as Reach weapon (+1 attack, -1 damage), as Double weapon (-1 attack, +1 damage)
Waterhammer 09-16-06, 11:03 PM	The spiked chain in the PHB is not a double weapon. Your weapon ideas are cool, but none of them should be double weapons at any time. Or if so then give them a high chance of injuring the wielder. If you doubt this; it's easy to prove. Go to the hardware store, and buy a 10' length of chain. Grab it in the middle, and attack a power pole or something similar. Careful you might hurt yourself.
Patrick Draken-Korin 09-17-06, 01:56 AM	Oh, no I made up something that wasn't in the PHB, I must erase it immediately!... Now, seriously, how many chain weapons have you seen across the various D&D works? Some are double, others are reach, a few are both. The rules allow for such an occurance. As for reality being the first and final say as to what is acceptable in my game or anyone elses... dream on. Here's my factoring system; 1. Balance (against whatever base standard you accept) 2. internal-consistency 3. logic (cause and effect) 4. flavor/fluff/coolness 5. relation to reality 6. precedence Personally, I can't say how others work, and won't say how they should, but that's my system. As far as using a weighted chain (the most realistic weapon in the lot as far as I'm concerned), of course I'm not going to try that. But wait. I'm a nerd, an intellectual and not a fighter. I'd say I've got simple weapon's proficiency, but nothing more. So yeah, I'd hurt myself. I'd probably hurt myself using a light flail or any sword well. Hmph, the only time I tried using a longbow I skinned the my arm. Now tell me that a length of chain found in a hardware store is balanced for combat. This isn't D20 apocalypse where everything is salvaged; in D&D a weapon is MADE to be a weapon; the light pick is not for mining, the sickle isn't off the farm, and a weighted chain isn't pulled from a draw bridge or a mine. Thanks for the dash of reality but as you can see, it's low on my to do list. Justifying things in one direction or another isn't as hard as actually dealing with them, so here's this; rule 0 and the fact you don't have to use it. Game happy.
SinisterSamurai 09-17-06, 01:52 PM	You go, girl! snaps fingers I'm all for it, personally. I've got a character that wants to use asymmetrical chains. An anchor on one end, and big-game shark-fishing meat hook on the other. To him, it's a buff sailor's take on the Japanese kusarigama. (Weight-chain-sickle) Q1: With your mechanic, would it still be a move equivalent action to switch from one ranged end of the chain to the other? (Reach A to Reach B) Or would it be two move equivalents (Reach A to Double, Double to Reach B) with a feat that allows the switch to be one move action? This mechanic is not just for asymmetrical chains with two different heads like the kusarigama, but for chains where each head has a different magical enhancment. (IE, Fire Damage on one end and Lightning Damage on the other, for instance.) Q2: If the chain gets sundered, is it destroyed? Does it become a one-handed chain with no reach? Or does it become two one-handed chains that can't be used as reach weapons anymore? I can't actually find any double-weapon sunder rules in the SRD or the Errata.
Patrick Draken-Korin 09-17-06, 05:19 PM	Yeah, I think switching from reach A to reach B would have to be a move action. I hadn't mentioned it, as these chains are symetrical, but it's a good point, especially for magical ones. As for Q2; I've never seen any rules for this either. I play that you can sunder each end separately, or break it down the middle (breaking the entire object). Seeing as I allow characters to repair destroyed magical gear if the have the appropriate feat and pay 1/2 the creation cost, sundering actually happens occasionally; they just rebuild it.
Kradlo 09-18-06, 09:45 PM	And strangest of all: Chain: Chain has hardness 10 and 5 hit points. It can be burst on a DC 26 Strength check. Wt: 2 lb. Cost: 30 gp. Notice that a normal chain costs 5 gp more than a spiked chain? Iron chains are apparently worth three times their weight in silver - 2 pounds of silver would be 10 gp. I'm telling you, when my character finds iron chains in the dungeon, he knows he's struck gold!
Patrick Draken-Korin 09-18-06, 11:34 PM	Yeah, that is rather insane; I think (and play) that it's a typo; it's 3 Gp in my games for 10ft (2lb) of common chain. Sorry, but you have to wait till you find an iron door before celbrating.;) That is unless you just like iron. actually that could be a good instanity for a character; cheers any time the loot includes metal, regardless of whether it's platinum or iron. you'de just have to be playing a game where the others are honest enough that they make sure he gets a real share of the loot, rathern than chains and crowbars.