Alternative useable Chain Mail, Splint Mail, ... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternative useable Chain Mail, Splint Mail, ... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Naderion
10-07-07, 06:36 PM You don't have to be an expert in anything to see, that of the 12 types of armor, only 6 are really good things to buy and espacially the Chain Mail and Splint Mail suck royaly.

If you have a Dex-Score of 11 or lower, Splint Mail results in +1 more AC-Bonus than a breastplate does. In any other aspects breastplate is far superior in absolutely everything for the same price.
The only thing that is better about chain mail compared with a breastplate is, that chain mail costs only 75% of the price of a breastplate. When you can't afford the 50 gp more, your equipment etat wouldn't allow you to buy chain mail for 150 gp anyway.
And yes, even the famous half plate is like that. If you have at least Dex 12, banded mail is superior to half plate in any aspect, but this time for even less than half the price.
I don't really know about scale mail. It's like a breastplate with -1 AC and for just 25% the price, it's not really that bad, but as soon as you get into masterwork or magical armor, you'll never see scale mail again.

No adventurer would ever wear Padded or Hide armor, but I guess they have their place as NPC-equipment. They are cheap and easy to make and material is widely accesable.

But let's face it, 4 out of 12 types of armor just suck. You could simply take them out of the game completely, but I don't really think this is actually the splution that is most fun. Maybe some people have ideas how to adjust the stats of the armor types, so that all of them actually become usefull even as masterwork or magical versions.
Wih
10-07-07, 07:10 PM Yeah, there is some sucky armour out there - but most of it has it's place. The suckier ones tend to be cheaper, and there for low level characters. Padded armour has a total AC bonus of +9, equal to Full-plate, but it's only viable for character with ludicrous Dex. Hide armour is there for Druids who can't afford Dragonhide.
But then again, everyone I've seen uses either Mithral Chain, Mithral or Adamantine Fullplate, or some new druid-friendly armour. The rest just plain aren't good enough past 4th or so level.
Kouk
10-07-07, 07:17 PM If you take the premise that all armor types should be different from each other, and all you have to work with is type, AC, check penalty, weight, price and spell failure, then there will be some that are "better" for mechanics than others depending on the cash you have.

You still can't quite put a price on "style" though :P
tyrecian
10-07-07, 10:22 PM also when randomly rolling for my NPC treasure, there is nothing better than rolling on a table where most of the armor is so bad that PCs are prolly not going to use it (rather they sell it at half price, if they can even find a merchant to afford that :P)...

hahahaha, what a rear i am!

Ideally, in a long-term campaign setting, with heavy roleplay you see more armors come into play (i.e. PCs rae invited to a party, armor is prohibitted, but padded armor can be disguised, and some nobles will be wearing studded leather with a crest on it, noone would dare try and take it off of them... meanwhile guards would be decked out in heavier mails, as as to defend the quality persons therein).

Also, there are varying technologies in armor, so I vary my armors from nation to nation, easy for the PCs to spot whether the no flag bearing, coverred crest guards are really disguised that well, since the PCs have encounterred neighborring forces in splint mail before... HIgh tech nations might have officers in plate, and cavalry in BP or chain, while low tech armies might have pole-arm bearers guarding the city walls in banded mail at best, or even studded leather with bronze studs. The nation near an elven forest will prefer large wooden shields, while the nation situated near the pass with the dwarven mines might have more steel shields available. Nomdic tribes that have very complex social structure might still only weild spears, while barbaric tribes might have all the stolen tech of the old empire in whose capital they sit, weilding adamantine greatwords and animated tower-shields with mithral plate-mail :D

Of course, ultimately my PCs crash the party in full plate, molesting even the quality persons, and laughing at any laws, since they can Teleport around, and often earn titles themselves... and rarely do they even spot to check for emblems or armor types, preferring the shoot first and loot "for clues" later options... But i write these rolls in anyways, hoping against hope that one day someone in my campaigns will attempt to roleplay at least once, without the sole goal of completely railroading the plotline :)
Karish
10-07-07, 11:13 PM I'm actually thinking about making a variant armor style, given how many RPGs like Morrowind give you certain armor "parts". Basically, they all have point values, and totalled up, equal your AC bonus from armor, your MDB, your Arcane Spell Failure and Armor Check Penalty, etc.

It'll be the combined weight of the gear that makes up the Type category.
Dracomorph
10-08-07, 12:30 AM That sounds like a cool, but far more complicated variant, if only because of the problems with enchanting. (I.E. is each piece enchanted separately? If so, can the whole party split a +5 Plate suit up, and gain the advantages of +5 enchanted armor? If not, how is the bonus assigned?)

Still, sounds cool.
Karish
10-08-07, 01:06 AM That sounds like a cool, but far more complicated variant, if only because of the problems with enchanting. (I.E. is each piece enchanted separately? If so, can the whole party split a +5 Plate suit up, and gain the advantages of +5 enchanted armor? If not, how is the bonus assigned?)

Still, sounds cool.

I'd actually make it so that you'd have to do it sort of like bracers of armor. The whole set has to be enchanted, and worn by the same person to have magical effect.
Dracomorph
10-08-07, 01:34 AM Wouldn't that end up functioning almost exactly like armor works now?
gullas
10-08-07, 05:52 AM No adventurer would ever wear Padded or Hide armor, but I guess they have their place as NPC-equipment. They are cheap and easy to make and material is widely accesable.

well , my last kobold wore padded armor , he had a rapier of doom:P....... instead of armor of doom:(
Karish
10-08-07, 08:20 AM Wouldn't that end up functioning almost exactly like armor works now?

Well, remembering that there would be several armor sets which varied from one another, with different styles, pieces, materials, and other such refinements, the armor would have variance still. A suit of armor could be anything, just it becomes a single unit when enchanted.
Naderion
10-08-07, 08:26 AM I think the Splint Mail is beyond hope, it's simply the worst armor type of all and the general idea of it doesn't really work well in real life, too.

But I tried to make two new versions of both chain mail and half-plate:

Chain Mail:
Most importantly, I think chain mail is too expensive. Of course it needs more links than a chain shirt, but apparently chain shirts are of far superior quality, so both armor types can have the same price. Also, it's much worse than a breastplate, which costs 200 gp, so 100 gp for chain mail instead of 150 gp might be better. Also, it's much too heavy. 30 lb. instead of 40 lb. might be better. Still not a good armor, but not so lousy. AC-Bonus might be 1 lower, but who would ever done chain mail when a chain shirt is even cheaper.

Half-Plate:
Half-Plate is actually supposed to be the best armor type of all, granting better protection than banded mail and not being as cumbersome as the unbeliveable heavy Full Plate armors.
A price of 600 gp seems okay, more than two times the price of banded mail, and the AC-Bonus of +7 fits, too. Supperior in flexibility to banded mail and full plate, the max. Dex Bonus to AC should be +2 instead of 0 and armor check penalty -6 instead of -7. Lower the weight to 40 lb. compared to 50 lb. and you really have a suit of armor that is actually more practical for everyday use than full plate. But it's significantly better than the PHB half-plate and it's far superior to banded mail, so maybe the price should be raised to 800 gp.
runestar
10-08-07, 09:53 AM Ideally, in a long-term campaign setting, with heavy roleplay you see more armors come into play (i.e. PCs rae invited to a party, armor is prohibitted, but padded armor can be disguised, and some nobles will be wearing studded leather with a crest on it, noone would dare try and take it off of them... meanwhile guards would be decked out in heavier mails, as as to defend the quality persons therein).

Thank goodness for mage armour or bracers of armour...:D
WhiteHarness
10-08-07, 11:30 AM Half-Plate:
Half-Plate is actually supposed to be the best armor type of all, granting better protection than banded mail and not being as cumbersome as the unbeliveable heavy Full Plate armors.

Oh really? What evidence do you have to support your claims here?
curtis_ownby
10-08-07, 10:52 PM Light armor should go from +1 to +4

Medium armor should go from +3 to +8

Heavy armor should go from +7 to +12

Light
Padded +1
Leather +2
Studded leather +3
Chain shirt +4
Medium
Hide +3
Scale mail +5
Chainmail +8
Breastplate +7
Heavy
Splint mail +8
Banded mail +9
Half-plate +10
Fullplate +12

The rest of the states stay the same as in the PHB.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Naderion 10-07-07, 06:36 PM	You don't have to be an expert in anything to see, that of the 12 types of armor, only 6 are really good things to buy and espacially the Chain Mail and Splint Mail suck royaly. If you have a Dex-Score of 11 or lower, Splint Mail results in +1 more AC-Bonus than a breastplate does. In any other aspects breastplate is far superior in absolutely everything for the same price. The only thing that is better about chain mail compared with a breastplate is, that chain mail costs only 75% of the price of a breastplate. When you can't afford the 50 gp more, your equipment etat wouldn't allow you to buy chain mail for 150 gp anyway. And yes, even the famous half plate is like that. If you have at least Dex 12, banded mail is superior to half plate in any aspect, but this time for even less than half the price. I don't really know about scale mail. It's like a breastplate with -1 AC and for just 25% the price, it's not really that bad, but as soon as you get into masterwork or magical armor, you'll never see scale mail again. No adventurer would ever wear Padded or Hide armor, but I guess they have their place as NPC-equipment. They are cheap and easy to make and material is widely accesable. But let's face it, 4 out of 12 types of armor just suck. You could simply take them out of the game completely, but I don't really think this is actually the splution that is most fun. Maybe some people have ideas how to adjust the stats of the armor types, so that all of them actually become usefull even as masterwork or magical versions.
Wih 10-07-07, 07:10 PM	Yeah, there is some sucky armour out there - but most of it has it's place. The suckier ones tend to be cheaper, and there for low level characters. Padded armour has a total AC bonus of +9, equal to Full-plate, but it's only viable for character with ludicrous Dex. Hide armour is there for Druids who can't afford Dragonhide. But then again, everyone I've seen uses either Mithral Chain, Mithral or Adamantine Fullplate, or some new druid-friendly armour. The rest just plain aren't good enough past 4th or so level.
Kouk 10-07-07, 07:17 PM	If you take the premise that all armor types should be different from each other, and all you have to work with is type, AC, check penalty, weight, price and spell failure, then there will be some that are "better" for mechanics than others depending on the cash you have. You still can't quite put a price on "style" though :P
tyrecian 10-07-07, 10:22 PM	also when randomly rolling for my NPC treasure, there is nothing better than rolling on a table where most of the armor is so bad that PCs are prolly not going to use it (rather they sell it at half price, if they can even find a merchant to afford that :P)... hahahaha, what a rear i am! Ideally, in a long-term campaign setting, with heavy roleplay you see more armors come into play (i.e. PCs rae invited to a party, armor is prohibitted, but padded armor can be disguised, and some nobles will be wearing studded leather with a crest on it, noone would dare try and take it off of them... meanwhile guards would be decked out in heavier mails, as as to defend the quality persons therein). Also, there are varying technologies in armor, so I vary my armors from nation to nation, easy for the PCs to spot whether the no flag bearing, coverred crest guards are really disguised that well, since the PCs have encounterred neighborring forces in splint mail before... HIgh tech nations might have officers in plate, and cavalry in BP or chain, while low tech armies might have pole-arm bearers guarding the city walls in banded mail at best, or even studded leather with bronze studs. The nation near an elven forest will prefer large wooden shields, while the nation situated near the pass with the dwarven mines might have more steel shields available. Nomdic tribes that have very complex social structure might still only weild spears, while barbaric tribes might have all the stolen tech of the old empire in whose capital they sit, weilding adamantine greatwords and animated tower-shields with mithral plate-mail :D Of course, ultimately my PCs crash the party in full plate, molesting even the quality persons, and laughing at any laws, since they can Teleport around, and often earn titles themselves... and rarely do they even spot to check for emblems or armor types, preferring the shoot first and loot "for clues" later options... But i write these rolls in anyways, hoping against hope that one day someone in my campaigns will attempt to roleplay at least once, without the sole goal of completely railroading the plotline :)
Karish 10-07-07, 11:13 PM	I'm actually thinking about making a variant armor style, given how many RPGs like Morrowind give you certain armor "parts". Basically, they all have point values, and totalled up, equal your AC bonus from armor, your MDB, your Arcane Spell Failure and Armor Check Penalty, etc. It'll be the combined weight of the gear that makes up the Type category.
Dracomorph 10-08-07, 12:30 AM	That sounds like a cool, but far more complicated variant, if only because of the problems with enchanting. (I.E. is each piece enchanted separately? If so, can the whole party split a +5 Plate suit up, and gain the advantages of +5 enchanted armor? If not, how is the bonus assigned?) Still, sounds cool.
Karish 10-08-07, 01:06 AM	That sounds like a cool, but far more complicated variant, if only because of the problems with enchanting. (I.E. is each piece enchanted separately? If so, can the whole party split a +5 Plate suit up, and gain the advantages of +5 enchanted armor? If not, how is the bonus assigned?) Still, sounds cool. I'd actually make it so that you'd have to do it sort of like bracers of armor. The whole set has to be enchanted, and worn by the same person to have magical effect.
Dracomorph 10-08-07, 01:34 AM	Wouldn't that end up functioning almost exactly like armor works now?
gullas 10-08-07, 05:52 AM	No adventurer would ever wear Padded or Hide armor, but I guess they have their place as NPC-equipment. They are cheap and easy to make and material is widely accesable. well , my last kobold wore padded armor , he had a rapier of doom:P....... instead of armor of doom:(
Karish 10-08-07, 08:20 AM	Wouldn't that end up functioning almost exactly like armor works now? Well, remembering that there would be several armor sets which varied from one another, with different styles, pieces, materials, and other such refinements, the armor would have variance still. A suit of armor could be anything, just it becomes a single unit when enchanted.
Naderion 10-08-07, 08:26 AM	I think the Splint Mail is beyond hope, it's simply the worst armor type of all and the general idea of it doesn't really work well in real life, too. But I tried to make two new versions of both chain mail and half-plate: Chain Mail: Most importantly, I think chain mail is too expensive. Of course it needs more links than a chain shirt, but apparently chain shirts are of far superior quality, so both armor types can have the same price. Also, it's much worse than a breastplate, which costs 200 gp, so 100 gp for chain mail instead of 150 gp might be better. Also, it's much too heavy. 30 lb. instead of 40 lb. might be better. Still not a good armor, but not so lousy. AC-Bonus might be 1 lower, but who would ever done chain mail when a chain shirt is even cheaper. Half-Plate: Half-Plate is actually supposed to be the best armor type of all, granting better protection than banded mail and not being as cumbersome as the unbeliveable heavy Full Plate armors. A price of 600 gp seems okay, more than two times the price of banded mail, and the AC-Bonus of +7 fits, too. Supperior in flexibility to banded mail and full plate, the max. Dex Bonus to AC should be +2 instead of 0 and armor check penalty -6 instead of -7. Lower the weight to 40 lb. compared to 50 lb. and you really have a suit of armor that is actually more practical for everyday use than full plate. But it's significantly better than the PHB half-plate and it's far superior to banded mail, so maybe the price should be raised to 800 gp.
runestar 10-08-07, 09:53 AM	Ideally, in a long-term campaign setting, with heavy roleplay you see more armors come into play (i.e. PCs rae invited to a party, armor is prohibitted, but padded armor can be disguised, and some nobles will be wearing studded leather with a crest on it, noone would dare try and take it off of them... meanwhile guards would be decked out in heavier mails, as as to defend the quality persons therein). Thank goodness for mage armour or bracers of armour...:D
WhiteHarness 10-08-07, 11:30 AM	Half-Plate: Half-Plate is actually supposed to be the best armor type of all, granting better protection than banded mail and not being as cumbersome as the unbeliveable heavy Full Plate armors. Oh really? What evidence do you have to support your claims here?
curtis_ownby 10-08-07, 10:52 PM	Light armor should go from +1 to +4 Medium armor should go from +3 to +8 Heavy armor should go from +7 to +12 Light Padded +1 Leather +2 Studded leather +3 Chain shirt +4 Medium Hide +3 Scale mail +5 Chainmail +8 Breastplate +7 Heavy Splint mail +8 Banded mail +9 Half-plate +10 Fullplate +12 The rest of the states stay the same as in the PHB.