Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pallin Rahl 06-25-07, 12:35 PM	I never mess with the item creation stuff, so I'm clearly not an expert regarding the rules related to it... Am I reading this correctly... regarding pricing for a magic item: Amulet of Continuous Shield (suppose you could call it). Basically, an amulet that puts the shield spell on you, as long as you're wearing it. From the chart, it looks like it would only cost like 4000g. Spell level (1) x Caster level (1) x 2000g = 2000g 2000g x 2 (for continuous) = 4000g Is this correct? I'm not really looking to make this item... I just happened to be reading the item creation stuff and wasn't sure if I was reading it correctly...
RequiemOfReason 06-25-07, 12:39 PM	Normally, yes. However, that is only a guideline. Before you apply that method, you must first look at what the spell actually does. Shield offers +4 to AC. AC bonuses are usually priced at (Bonus Squared)*1000. The exception to this is uncommon bonus types such as insight, luck or sacred, which cost considerably more. Your item would cost around 16,000. Otherwise, why would anyone ever buy Bracers of Armor when an amulet of constant Mage Armor costs one quarter as much? (Never mind that Bracers of Armor are sort of sucky compared to Twilight Mithral Chain shirts)
Dalthbar 06-25-07, 12:40 PM	First, the "rules for magic item pricing" are only "guidelines". They do not work in all situations and you can very easily produce broken items. Second, you're looking for an item that gives a +4 shield bonus to AC. What immediately comes to mind are Bracers of Armor. Bracers at +4 come in at 16k - so your item should be in that ballpark (use known items as a "sanity test" to gauge your pricing). Third, first level spells are the most-often abused/broken when made into magic items. They should always be looked at even more closely than higher level spells. So to answer your question - no, that wouldn't be correct. And any DM that would allow it clearly has no idea how to run a balanced game or how the magic item pricing system actually works. General rule: price items based on their power and potential for abuse, not according to some admittedly flawed formula system.
Pallin Rahl 06-25-07, 12:45 PM	Calm down... calm down... :P I'm just trying to understand how the item creation rules work... the question wasn't "how best to abuse things to break the game?"... :)
Maxxx 06-25-07, 12:53 PM	You should always remember, that there are no real item creation rules, there are only guidelines. The only real rule is that you should always compare the price of a new item to existing items and set the price according to that comparison. This has nothing to do with you trying to abuse the system, which you are not, just that the "rules" fail in many examples, especially those involving spells and continuous effects.
tarkin 06-25-07, 01:07 PM	In addition, you have failed to understand a key part of the rules. 1. There is not one set of rules/guidelines. There are several. For example, there is the weapon pricing system, the Skill pricing system, the stat pricing system, the compare to existing items system, as well as the "last resort, worst pricing system". 2. That "last resort, worst pricing system"? It is the name that people use to refer to the spell level x caster level x type modifier x time modifer system that you tried to use. ---------- General advice on pricing magic items. Magic Items are priced on the POWER of the item. Everything else is just an attempt to put the power in gp terms. If you can obtain the same effect using two different base spells, then the price is identical - it does not matter that one spell was 1st level and the other was 5th. Note the "Minor Cloak of Displacement" that works like a blur spell and is priced as a blur spell. When you don't know how to price it, use the methods in THIS order: 1. Compare to existing items. If something is similar, base it on that price, not anything else. 2. Benefit system. If something has a stat bonus, or a skill bonus, definitely price it using that method, not anything else. 3. One use items can almost always be fairlypriced using the 'last resort method'. 4. Use the ARMOR & WEAPON pricing system for anything involved with AC, or attacks. If you want something to work every time you attack, it pretty much HAS to use the +1, +2, +3, +4, +5 pricing system. 5. If you have no other pricing system, then you can use the last resort: spell level x caster level etc.
risner 06-25-07, 08:29 PM	From the chart, it looks like it would only cost like 4000g. Spell level (1) x Caster level (1) x 2000g = 2000g Is this correct? If you are new to item creation, then ignore the existence of the chart for now. Items are priced by three methods in this order: 1) Similar items. 2) Items of similar power (similar drool level.) 3) Use chart for a "first draft", then fudge up and down if the price sounds too low or too high.
Watsyurname529 06-25-07, 08:36 PM	Also, dont forget that a Shield Spell blocks all Magic Missiles attacks as well as works against incorporeal touch attacks, these also should be considered in pricing the item. I agree with the others, your item should be no less than 16,000gp if not a little more for the other things Shield does as well.
risner 06-25-07, 10:06 PM	Also, dont forget that a Shield Spell blocks all Magic Missiles attacks as well Exactly. If he used Shield as the spell in an item, he would need to pay for each: AC rates for Armour Bonuses (X*X*YYYY) Some rate for the Magic Missile defense (probably much more than Brooch of Shielding.) In other words, to reinforce Watsyurname529's point you would be charged for every single part of a spell individually when used in an item.
Vaelan 06-26-07, 06:31 AM	You missed the part about the creation guidelines being a very, very tenuous starting point. The second step is to throw out that price entirely and compare it to other items. Find an item that is, in general, as desirable and price it accordingly.
vegetalss4 06-26-07, 07:05 AM	the question wasn't "how best to abuse things to break the game?"... they know else they would have told you to get a ring of true strike:P