Ambush and surprize rounds tactics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ambush and surprize rounds tactics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Suin Bahhar
03-30-06, 04:32 PM What actions are the best to take when in a surprize round? Is it possible to get two melee attacks with one standard action? Also can you pounce on a surprize round?
ShinAkuma2
03-30-06, 04:42 PM Usually moving into position (ie for flank, opening up charge lanes, etc), partial charging (if close enough), or casting a buff spell are the best options.
strumbleduck
03-30-06, 04:47 PM For wilderness encounters, many players use the surprise round to get off a horse, draw a weapon, or ready their shield.

I would rule that pounce does not work with a partial charge. You could delay, though, which would let you go first on the following full round of combat.
tarkin
03-30-06, 04:50 PM There are several things you can do.

Rogues: You have a standard action against flat-footed people. SNEAK ATTACK.

Wizard types: Cast your defensive spell NOW. You want that Mirror Image up before they attack you, not afterwards.

Fighter types: CHARGE in now. One of the problems with charge is that while you get a minor bonus, you only get a single attack while your enemy gets a full attack. If you charge during a surprise round you get all the benefits and few if any of the disadvantages.

P.S. If you have a horse, generally it is not a smart idea to get off of it. Fight from it instead. Mounted combat without the feats is not that hard, and you get the +1 to hit.
strumbleduck
03-30-06, 04:58 PM P.S. If you have a horse, generally it is not a smart idea to get off of it. Fight from it instead. Mounted combat without the feats is not that hard, and you get the +1 to hit.
Usually archers like to get off of their horses, since longbows don't work while mounted. Being on a horse also prevents you from being enlarged.
Tony Vargas
03-30-06, 05:14 PM When you have a surprise round, you /do/ roll initiative. It's a little metagamish but one thing you can do is look at your initiative and decide whether you think the enemy can beat it.

If you crapped out, and figure they probably can, then you take into account that you're going to get a standard action, then they'll get a full action before you go again. For instance, charging isn't quite so cool, if you want to get in an SA, a ranged attack is probably your only option, a defensive spell might be a /really/ good idea. (in 3.0, you might have even 'refocused' to get in a full attack at your best init next round)

OTOH, if you got a good inititiative, you have a very real advantage as you'll get both a standard action and a full round action. You could partial charge or even just move in, knowing you'll get a full round attack before they do; you can lead with an offensive spell, followed by a more defensive one, or a move to cover or some such.
ShinAkuma2
03-30-06, 06:23 PM I would rule that pounce does not work with a partial charge.

It doesn't. You still need to take a full-round action to do the full attack at the end.
Suin Bahhar
04-01-06, 05:27 PM Spring attack is no action in itself so would it be a good course of action to spend a standard action to attack and use spring attack to move before and after the attack? Or does spring attack use a full round action?
Tsuul
04-01-06, 06:39 PM Spring attack requires a move action and an attack action. The movement in the feat isn't "free".
Suin Bahhar
04-01-06, 07:18 PM thanks for clearing that up :)
Are ther any spells or items that could aid in the surprize round?
I heard about the immediate action psionic power Anticipatory Strike (Races of Destiny) that lets you spend 3 power points to take a full round action. This would totally rock on an item like bracers or a ring. A wand or psionic wand/dorje perhaps?
kjenks
04-01-06, 10:07 PM Your best "action" in the surprise round might be to delay, especially if you lose the initiative. Then you un-delay at the top of the first regular round so you get a full round of actions before your opponent does, rather than just the single standard action that you'd get if you act during the surprise round.
Witchblade
04-02-06, 08:31 AM Readying an action, like setting your spear against the upcoming charge, might not be a bad idea either. You won't have the normal full attack VS one readied attack disadvantage either.
Reis
04-02-06, 09:28 AM i'm a fan of power attack+ the iajutsu focus skill from OA, if you start the surprise round in combat with a low AC target you can usually hurt them pretty bad before they can react if you have max ranks in iajutsu focus and a high BAB

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Suin Bahhar 03-30-06, 04:32 PM	What actions are the best to take when in a surprize round? Is it possible to get two melee attacks with one standard action? Also can you pounce on a surprize round?
ShinAkuma2 03-30-06, 04:42 PM	Usually moving into position (ie for flank, opening up charge lanes, etc), partial charging (if close enough), or casting a buff spell are the best options.
strumbleduck 03-30-06, 04:47 PM	For wilderness encounters, many players use the surprise round to get off a horse, draw a weapon, or ready their shield. I would rule that pounce does not work with a partial charge. You could delay, though, which would let you go first on the following full round of combat.
tarkin 03-30-06, 04:50 PM	There are several things you can do. Rogues: You have a standard action against flat-footed people. SNEAK ATTACK. Wizard types: Cast your defensive spell NOW. You want that Mirror Image up before they attack you, not afterwards. Fighter types: CHARGE in now. One of the problems with charge is that while you get a minor bonus, you only get a single attack while your enemy gets a full attack. If you charge during a surprise round you get all the benefits and few if any of the disadvantages. P.S. If you have a horse, generally it is not a smart idea to get off of it. Fight from it instead. Mounted combat without the feats is not that hard, and you get the +1 to hit.
strumbleduck 03-30-06, 04:58 PM	P.S. If you have a horse, generally it is not a smart idea to get off of it. Fight from it instead. Mounted combat without the feats is not that hard, and you get the +1 to hit. Usually archers like to get off of their horses, since longbows don't work while mounted. Being on a horse also prevents you from being enlarged.
Tony Vargas 03-30-06, 05:14 PM	When you have a surprise round, you /do/ roll initiative. It's a little metagamish but one thing you can do is look at your initiative and decide whether you think the enemy can beat it. If you crapped out, and figure they probably can, then you take into account that you're going to get a standard action, then they'll get a full action before you go again. For instance, charging isn't quite so cool, if you want to get in an SA, a ranged attack is probably your only option, a defensive spell might be a /really/ good idea. (in 3.0, you might have even 'refocused' to get in a full attack at your best init next round) OTOH, if you got a good inititiative, you have a very real advantage as you'll get both a standard action and a full round action. You could partial charge or even just move in, knowing you'll get a full round attack before they do; you can lead with an offensive spell, followed by a more defensive one, or a move to cover or some such.
ShinAkuma2 03-30-06, 06:23 PM	I would rule that pounce does not work with a partial charge. It doesn't. You still need to take a full-round action to do the full attack at the end.
Suin Bahhar 04-01-06, 05:27 PM	Spring attack is no action in itself so would it be a good course of action to spend a standard action to attack and use spring attack to move before and after the attack? Or does spring attack use a full round action?
Tsuul 04-01-06, 06:39 PM	Spring attack requires a move action and an attack action. The movement in the feat isn't "free".
Suin Bahhar 04-01-06, 07:18 PM	thanks for clearing that up :) Are ther any spells or items that could aid in the surprize round? I heard about the immediate action psionic power Anticipatory Strike (Races of Destiny) that lets you spend 3 power points to take a full round action. This would totally rock on an item like bracers or a ring. A wand or psionic wand/dorje perhaps?
kjenks 04-01-06, 10:07 PM	Your best "action" in the surprise round might be to delay, especially if you lose the initiative. Then you un-delay at the top of the first regular round so you get a full round of actions before your opponent does, rather than just the single standard action that you'd get if you act during the surprise round.
Witchblade 04-02-06, 08:31 AM	Readying an action, like setting your spear against the upcoming charge, might not be a bad idea either. You won't have the normal full attack VS one readied attack disadvantage either.
Reis 04-02-06, 09:28 AM	i'm a fan of power attack+ the iajutsu focus skill from OA, if you start the surprise round in combat with a low AC target you can usually hurt them pretty bad before they can react if you have max ranks in iajutsu focus and a high BAB