Amulet of Mighty Fists [Archive] - Wizards Community

Amulet of Mighty Fists [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bjorn the Wanderer
09-12-07, 01:12 PM Any one have any idea why the amulet of mighty fists costs 3 times as much as a magic weapon and has the same effect?

I am trying to help a 4th level monk character in my campaign out but they are falling being as everyone can get a 2000gp magic weapon and still be within their wealth by character level and this character for the same effect needs either 4000g for gauntlets of strength (which does not let them bypass DR/magic) or 6000 for the amulet.

Is it just me or does this item seem to be just a tad bit expensive for what they are getting?

Regards,
CowMasterTrojan
09-12-07, 01:28 PM Keep in mind that a level 4 monk can bypass Dr/magic anyway. So really it is a better deal to go with the gauntlets of strength+2.

Personally I do see you point though, its not worth it to get amulets of mighty fists for the most part.
Scion of Coldshard
09-12-07, 01:34 PM It is pretty much because it works on natural weapons as well.

I would suggest making a seperate item to boost only monk attacks. There are a large number of different suggestions floating around and I cant recall at the moment which version is in my houserules folder.

You have to be careful though. It has been long enough now that because the option was so costly other things have popped up to 'compensate' in some ways.. which means that a character can get too many stacking effects from all over and generate huge results without stepping outside of wotc published material and with no particular pick being over the top at all.
foxtail
09-12-07, 01:34 PM Monks get the short end of the stick here, because they're mostly paying for the potential benefit of the item; the amulet is much, much more effective on the neck of a creature with multiple natural attacks than it is on a humanoid.

Consider instead creating an item with stricter wording in its effect description, one that specifically only affects unarmed strikes, or even just a strike from one particular fist. That should allow you to crop the price down closer to that of a typical magical weapon.
Bjorn the Wanderer
09-12-07, 03:31 PM Something think like a hand wrap or something that would will apply as an unarmed strike, take the same slot as gloves and allow them to be enchanted like a weapon to apply bonuses to unarmed strikes only.

Taking the gloves slot it could not be stacked with gauntlets of str or dex. Then price enchanting it the same as a weapon.

That sound about right?
Scion of Coldshard
09-12-07, 05:01 PM As long as you are using the MIC crafting rules it should be fine ;)
dman11235
09-12-07, 05:23 PM Amulet of Natural Attacks from SS. That only costs a little more (600) than a normal weapon. Greater Magic Weapon cast on you by the cleric or wizard, or GMF by the druid.
Merestil Haye
09-12-07, 07:17 PM Compare the benefit of the Amulet of Mighty Fists with Gauntlets of Ogre Power.

The Gauntlets increase the wearer's Strength. This gives +1 to all melee attack and damage rolls, +1 to all Strength based skill and ability checks, increases the character's carrying capacity and makes them more resilient to Strength damage effects.

The Amulet gives the wearer's natural weapons, both melee and ranged, +1 to attack and damage rolls and the ability to bypass DR */Magic.

If anything, the Gauntlets of Ogre Power are slightly stronger because they are more versatile and because there are not many creatures with ranged natural attacks.

Now look at the body slot affinity chart. If you made a +2 Strength enhancer as an amulet, how much would it cost? 6,000gp.

The Amulet of Natural Fists is in the wrong slot, since combat enhancements do not belong in a neck slot. Bracers or Gauntlets of Mighty Fists should be the standard, costing 4,000*bonus2 for bonuses up to +5.
dman11235
09-12-07, 08:30 PM I always make my monks with weapon finesse. Always.

And the amulet is in the right slot. The slot affinity for the neck is near endless. The three slots that have the most affinities: neck, robe, and ring.
wonlee76
09-12-07, 10:16 PM Well, there was an article by the Sage somewhere on the WOTC website regarding the pricing. I believe he essentially implied that it is overpriced. Instead of being 3x the cost of a magical weapon enhancement, it should be 1.5 times the cost of a magical weapon enhancement.

Personally, I was thinking about this and figured the monk's unarmed strike is the best overall weapon for a medium sized PC. What other weapon can a PC wield that potentially goes up to 2d10 damage and has the perk of having a feat increase that damage to 4d8? None. I believe the original game designers looked at it from that angle and overpriced the amulet because of that impression/belief and since then, design philosophy has changed.

MIC got rid of the 50% kicker for multiple magical enhancements in 1 item (which was originally justified by the whole idea that body slots are a limited resource so shoving several enhancements in one item is more valuable than having several magical enhancements spread out over several body slots).

Since you're the DM, change the price. I changed the pricing scheme to be 1.5 the cost of a regular weapon enhancement since I think if you make it equal price to weapon enhancements, it gives the monk too much of an advantage but at least at x1.5 of weapon enhancements, it doesn't sting the monk's wallet as much.
dman11235
09-12-07, 10:49 PM There's also the fact that it enhances ALL of your natural attacks, for the same price. Something with 2054358758 natural attacks? Same price as something with 1.
Merestil Haye
09-13-07, 08:14 AM And the amulet is in the right slot. The slot affinity for the neck is near endless. The three slots that have the most affinities: neck, robe, and ring.Please actually read the body slot affinity table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#bodySlotAffinitie s). The neck affinities are : Morale, alignment, protection and discernment. What have they got to do with combat propwess? Nothing.

Something that enhances attacks belongs in a body slot with affinity for combat. That is, Bracers (or, at a stretch, gauntlets).

An Amulet of Natural Attacks is in an incorrect body-slot.

I'd also like to point out again that Gauntlets of Ogre Power would give +1 to hit and damage to all of a creature's natural melee attacks, and give it some other benefits to compensate for the loss of enhancing the creature's natural ranged attacks.
dman11235
09-13-07, 01:40 PM I re-read the body slot affinities, and I am appalled at how few things are slotted with the amulet. Amulet of health. Necklace of Fireballs. I'm sure there's more in the MiC, like the onse that summon, and the hand of the mage. I'd put that in amulet, ring, robe, gauntlet, belt, or vest form. I think that any one of those would be fine.

Any way, about the gauntlets of ogre power, go ahead. And then get an amulet of mighty fists for that creature with three or more natural attacks. They stack, you know.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bjorn the Wanderer 09-12-07, 01:12 PM	Any one have any idea why the amulet of mighty fists costs 3 times as much as a magic weapon and has the same effect? I am trying to help a 4th level monk character in my campaign out but they are falling being as everyone can get a 2000gp magic weapon and still be within their wealth by character level and this character for the same effect needs either 4000g for gauntlets of strength (which does not let them bypass DR/magic) or 6000 for the amulet. Is it just me or does this item seem to be just a tad bit expensive for what they are getting? Regards,
CowMasterTrojan 09-12-07, 01:28 PM	Keep in mind that a level 4 monk can bypass Dr/magic anyway. So really it is a better deal to go with the gauntlets of strength+2. Personally I do see you point though, its not worth it to get amulets of mighty fists for the most part.
Scion of Coldshard 09-12-07, 01:34 PM	It is pretty much because it works on natural weapons as well. I would suggest making a seperate item to boost only monk attacks. There are a large number of different suggestions floating around and I cant recall at the moment which version is in my houserules folder. You have to be careful though. It has been long enough now that because the option was so costly other things have popped up to 'compensate' in some ways.. which means that a character can get too many stacking effects from all over and generate huge results without stepping outside of wotc published material and with no particular pick being over the top at all.
foxtail 09-12-07, 01:34 PM	Monks get the short end of the stick here, because they're mostly paying for the potential benefit of the item; the amulet is much, much more effective on the neck of a creature with multiple natural attacks than it is on a humanoid. Consider instead creating an item with stricter wording in its effect description, one that specifically only affects unarmed strikes, or even just a strike from one particular fist. That should allow you to crop the price down closer to that of a typical magical weapon.
Bjorn the Wanderer 09-12-07, 03:31 PM	Something think like a hand wrap or something that would will apply as an unarmed strike, take the same slot as gloves and allow them to be enchanted like a weapon to apply bonuses to unarmed strikes only. Taking the gloves slot it could not be stacked with gauntlets of str or dex. Then price enchanting it the same as a weapon. That sound about right?
Scion of Coldshard 09-12-07, 05:01 PM	As long as you are using the MIC crafting rules it should be fine ;)
dman11235 09-12-07, 05:23 PM	Amulet of Natural Attacks from SS. That only costs a little more (600) than a normal weapon. Greater Magic Weapon cast on you by the cleric or wizard, or GMF by the druid.
Merestil Haye 09-12-07, 07:17 PM	Compare the benefit of the Amulet of Mighty Fists with Gauntlets of Ogre Power. The Gauntlets increase the wearer's Strength. This gives +1 to all melee attack and damage rolls, +1 to all Strength based skill and ability checks, increases the character's carrying capacity and makes them more resilient to Strength damage effects. The Amulet gives the wearer's natural weapons, both melee and ranged, +1 to attack and damage rolls and the ability to bypass DR /Magic. If anything, the Gauntlets of Ogre Power are slightly stronger because they are more versatile and because there are not many creatures with ranged natural attacks. Now look at the body slot affinity chart. If you made a +2 Strength enhancer as an amulet, how much would it cost? 6,000gp. The Amulet of Natural Fists is in the wrong slot, since combat enhancements do not belong in a neck slot. Bracers or Gauntlets of Mighty Fists should be the standard, costing 4,000bonus2 for bonuses up to +5.
dman11235 09-12-07, 08:30 PM	I always make my monks with weapon finesse. Always. And the amulet is in the right slot. The slot affinity for the neck is near endless. The three slots that have the most affinities: neck, robe, and ring.
wonlee76 09-12-07, 10:16 PM	Well, there was an article by the Sage somewhere on the WOTC website regarding the pricing. I believe he essentially implied that it is overpriced. Instead of being 3x the cost of a magical weapon enhancement, it should be 1.5 times the cost of a magical weapon enhancement. Personally, I was thinking about this and figured the monk's unarmed strike is the best overall weapon for a medium sized PC. What other weapon can a PC wield that potentially goes up to 2d10 damage and has the perk of having a feat increase that damage to 4d8? None. I believe the original game designers looked at it from that angle and overpriced the amulet because of that impression/belief and since then, design philosophy has changed. MIC got rid of the 50% kicker for multiple magical enhancements in 1 item (which was originally justified by the whole idea that body slots are a limited resource so shoving several enhancements in one item is more valuable than having several magical enhancements spread out over several body slots). Since you're the DM, change the price. I changed the pricing scheme to be 1.5 the cost of a regular weapon enhancement since I think if you make it equal price to weapon enhancements, it gives the monk too much of an advantage but at least at x1.5 of weapon enhancements, it doesn't sting the monk's wallet as much.
dman11235 09-12-07, 10:49 PM	There's also the fact that it enhances ALL of your natural attacks, for the same price. Something with 2054358758 natural attacks? Same price as something with 1.
Merestil Haye 09-13-07, 08:14 AM	And the amulet is in the right slot. The slot affinity for the neck is near endless. The three slots that have the most affinities: neck, robe, and ring.Please actually read the body slot affinity table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#bodySlotAffinitie s). The neck affinities are : Morale, alignment, protection and discernment. What have they got to do with combat propwess? Nothing. Something that enhances attacks belongs in a body slot with affinity for combat. That is, Bracers (or, at a stretch, gauntlets). An Amulet of Natural Attacks is in an incorrect body-slot. I'd also like to point out again that Gauntlets of Ogre Power would give +1 to hit and damage to all of a creature's natural melee attacks, and give it some other benefits to compensate for the loss of enhancing the creature's natural ranged attacks.
dman11235 09-13-07, 01:40 PM	I re-read the body slot affinities, and I am appalled at how few things are slotted with the amulet. Amulet of health. Necklace of Fireballs. I'm sure there's more in the MiC, like the onse that summon, and the hand of the mage. I'd put that in amulet, ring, robe, gauntlet, belt, or vest form. I think that any one of those would be fine. Any way, about the gauntlets of ogre power, go ahead. And then get an amulet of mighty fists for that creature with three or more natural attacks. They stack, you know.