Amulets, brooches and periapts [Archive] - Wizards Community

Amulets, brooches and periapts [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Phaseroth
07-02-06, 08:49 PM Do amulets, brooches and periapts all occupy the same slot on the body for rules purposes, or do they not? I could swear that I read in one rulebook or another that they do.

If they do take up the same slot, then I'm confused. Why? Because official sources, such as the Dungeon Master's Guide and Player's Handbook II keep suggesting that a PC or NPC of such-and-such level should have among his gear both an amulet of natural armor and a periapt of wisdom or brooch of shielding.

Since I don't think there's enough time during combat to waste a couple rounds removing one and replacing it with the other as the situation warrants, I'm clearly missing something here. Don't two magic items worn in the same slot cancel each other out? Hence, only one magic ring per hand, etc., and only one amulet, brooch or periapt at a time?

I'm so confused.
mvincent
07-02-06, 09:34 PM Do amulets, brooches and periapts all occupy the same slot on the body for rules purposes, or do they not? I could swear that I read in one rulebook or another that they do. Correct. From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm):
"A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which place on the body the item is worn.
...
One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck"

official sources, such as the Dungeon Master's Guide and Player's Handbook II keep suggesting that a PC or NPC of such-and-such level should have among his gear both an amulet of natural armor and a periapt of wisdom or brooch of shielding.Those are likely mistakes. To fix, you can assume that they paid (+50%) extra to have the lesser priced item(s) combined in the greater priced one (which is allowed):
"A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions.
...
If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%."
Phaseroth
07-02-06, 09:38 PM Correct. From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm):
"A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which place on the body the item is worn.
...
One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck"
Thanks :)

Those are likely mistakes.
Over and over again in the books? Seems like a pretty blatant mistake for WotC to allow through so many times. This isn't in the errata, either. I guess they must have had some reason for presenting it like they did.

To fix, you can assume that they paid (+50%) extra to have the lesser priced item(s) combined in the greater priced one (which is allowed):
"A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions.
...
If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%."
Now that sounds cool :)
kire024
07-02-06, 11:23 PM Over and over again in the books? Seems like a pretty blatant mistake for WotC to allow through so many times. This isn't in the errata, either. I guess they must have had some reason for presenting it like they did.

It sounds like one of those times where one person makes a mistake but it doesn't get caught and then everyone else just copy and pastes just assuming everything is right.
Bulletproof_Condom
07-02-06, 11:37 PM Because official sources, such as the Dungeon Master's Guide and Player's Handbook II keep suggesting that a PC or NPC of such-and-such level should have among his gear both an amulet of natural armor and a periapt of wisdom or brooch of shielding.
Doesn't mean they're wearing them all at the same time.
"Wizard, eh? Hand me my brooch."
or
"Not a wizard, eh? Hand me my amulet."
grelna
07-03-06, 12:59 AM official sources, such as the Dungeon Master's Guide and Player's Handbook II keep suggesting that a PC or NPC of such-and-such level should have among his gear both an amulet of natural armor and a periapt of wisdom or brooch of shielding.Those are likely mistakes. To fix, you can assume that they paid (+50%) extra to have the lesser priced item(s) combined in the greater priced one (which is allowed):
"A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions.
...
If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%."
The above is one way to take care of the problem, but there is another possibility. I couldn't find it in the SRD, but on p.285 of the DMG it states that it is possible to create a magic item that does not take up space for purposes of calculating how many items can occupy that body slot. This doubles the normal cost of the item, but would allow the wearer to wear, for example, a third ring. I would assume that common sense would have to prevail with certain body slots - I doubt it is possible to wear two pairs of boots at once (although maybe using magic crossgarters while wearing a pair of magic shoes would be possible).
Phaseroth
07-03-06, 01:27 AM The above is one way to take care of the problem, but there is another possibility. I couldn't find it in the SRD, but on p.285 of the DMG it states that it is possible to create a magic item that does not take up space for purposes of calculating how many items can occupy that body slot. This doubles the normal cost of the item, but would allow the wearer to wear, for example, a third ring. I would assume that common sense would have to prevail with certain body slots - I doubt it is possible to wear two pairs of boots at once (although maybe using magic crossgarters while wearing a pair of magic shoes would be possible).
Still, that doesn't seem like something they'd suggest for the purpose of generating random NPCs (as in the DMG), or suggested equipment for your PC (as in PHB II) without explaining that they were using this obscure rule when laying it all out. Honestly, it doesn't sound like something they'd recommend anyway, what with their desire for "balance".

The DMG NPC generation tables show a clear progression of gear advancement from 1st level through 20th.

For example, an NPC cleric:

10th level: +1 full plate, +1 heavy steel shield, ring of protection +1, mwk melee, mundane ranged, periapt of Wisdom +2

11th level: Same as 10th

12th level: +1 full plate, +1 heavy steel shield, amulet of natural armor +1, ring +1, +1 melee, mundane ranged, periapt +2

... and so on. Armor is always replaced with different armor; melee weapon is always replaced with a different melee weapon; rings are always replaced with new rings. But new amulets/periapts/brooches are always in addition to what was possessed at the previous level, rather than replacing the previous one, suggesting the character has both rather than one or the other.

*heh* This could be extremely annoying for my PCs when every hostile NPC they meet can always swap in the proper jewelry with which to thwart them :D

(I remember when I was playing a low-level sorcerer and almost every "boss" the party encountered was wearing a brooch of shielding. I don't know if that was the DM's fault or the authors of the published adventure's fault.)

Anyway, maybe this is something I need to ask directly of WotC or the authors of the books in question. I only noticed this because I don't have a game right now and I'm spending all my spare time amusing myself by generating NPCs. If I was in a game (as a player, anyway) running a PC, I probably wouldn't be spending all this time staring at these tables!
mvincent
07-03-06, 12:45 PM I couldn't find it in the SRD, but on p.285 of the DMG it states that it is possible to create a magic item that does not take up space for purposes of calculating how many items can occupy that body slot. This doubles the normal cost of the itemIt is noted in the SRD on the Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm):
"No space limitation (5) Multiply entire cost by 2"
"5. An item that does not take up one of the spaces on a body costs double."

Yes, that would work. I thought about it but I did not suggest it because a) it costs more and b) I do not allow people use of that table (it opens a door that often best kept shut).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Phaseroth 07-02-06, 08:49 PM	Do amulets, brooches and periapts all occupy the same slot on the body for rules purposes, or do they not? I could swear that I read in one rulebook or another that they do. If they do take up the same slot, then I'm confused. Why? Because official sources, such as the Dungeon Master's Guide and Player's Handbook II keep suggesting that a PC or NPC of such-and-such level should have among his gear both an amulet of natural armor and a periapt of wisdom or brooch of shielding. Since I don't think there's enough time during combat to waste a couple rounds removing one and replacing it with the other as the situation warrants, I'm clearly missing something here. Don't two magic items worn in the same slot cancel each other out? Hence, only one magic ring per hand, etc., and only one amulet, brooch or periapt at a time? I'm so confused.
mvincent 07-02-06, 09:34 PM	Do amulets, brooches and periapts all occupy the same slot on the body for rules purposes, or do they not? I could swear that I read in one rulebook or another that they do. Correct. From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm): "A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which place on the body the item is worn. ... One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck" official sources, such as the Dungeon Master's Guide and Player's Handbook II keep suggesting that a PC or NPC of such-and-such level should have among his gear both an amulet of natural armor and a periapt of wisdom or brooch of shielding.Those are likely mistakes. To fix, you can assume that they paid (+50%) extra to have the lesser priced item(s) combined in the greater priced one (which is allowed): "A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. ... If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%."
Phaseroth 07-02-06, 09:38 PM	Correct. From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm): "A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which place on the body the item is worn. ... One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck" Thanks :) Those are likely mistakes. Over and over again in the books? Seems like a pretty blatant mistake for WotC to allow through so many times. This isn't in the errata, either. I guess they must have had some reason for presenting it like they did. To fix, you can assume that they paid (+50%) extra to have the lesser priced item(s) combined in the greater priced one (which is allowed): "A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. ... If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%." Now that sounds cool :)
kire024 07-02-06, 11:23 PM	Over and over again in the books? Seems like a pretty blatant mistake for WotC to allow through so many times. This isn't in the errata, either. I guess they must have had some reason for presenting it like they did. It sounds like one of those times where one person makes a mistake but it doesn't get caught and then everyone else just copy and pastes just assuming everything is right.
Bulletproof_Condom 07-02-06, 11:37 PM	Because official sources, such as the Dungeon Master's Guide and Player's Handbook II keep suggesting that a PC or NPC of such-and-such level should have among his gear both an amulet of natural armor and a periapt of wisdom or brooch of shielding. Doesn't mean they're wearing them all at the same time. "Wizard, eh? Hand me my brooch." or "Not a wizard, eh? Hand me my amulet."
grelna 07-03-06, 12:59 AM	official sources, such as the Dungeon Master's Guide and Player's Handbook II keep suggesting that a PC or NPC of such-and-such level should have among his gear both an amulet of natural armor and a periapt of wisdom or brooch of shielding.Those are likely mistakes. To fix, you can assume that they paid (+50%) extra to have the lesser priced item(s) combined in the greater priced one (which is allowed): "A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. ... If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%." The above is one way to take care of the problem, but there is another possibility. I couldn't find it in the SRD, but on p.285 of the DMG it states that it is possible to create a magic item that does not take up space for purposes of calculating how many items can occupy that body slot. This doubles the normal cost of the item, but would allow the wearer to wear, for example, a third ring. I would assume that common sense would have to prevail with certain body slots - I doubt it is possible to wear two pairs of boots at once (although maybe using magic crossgarters while wearing a pair of magic shoes would be possible).
Phaseroth 07-03-06, 01:27 AM	The above is one way to take care of the problem, but there is another possibility. I couldn't find it in the SRD, but on p.285 of the DMG it states that it is possible to create a magic item that does not take up space for purposes of calculating how many items can occupy that body slot. This doubles the normal cost of the item, but would allow the wearer to wear, for example, a third ring. I would assume that common sense would have to prevail with certain body slots - I doubt it is possible to wear two pairs of boots at once (although maybe using magic crossgarters while wearing a pair of magic shoes would be possible). Still, that doesn't seem like something they'd suggest for the purpose of generating random NPCs (as in the DMG), or suggested equipment for your PC (as in PHB II) without explaining that they were using this obscure rule when laying it all out. Honestly, it doesn't sound like something they'd recommend anyway, what with their desire for "balance". The DMG NPC generation tables show a clear progression of gear advancement from 1st level through 20th. For example, an NPC cleric: 10th level: +1 full plate, +1 heavy steel shield, ring of protection +1, mwk melee, mundane ranged, periapt of Wisdom +2 11th level: Same as 10th 12th level: +1 full plate, +1 heavy steel shield, amulet of natural armor +1, ring +1, +1 melee, mundane ranged, periapt +2 ... and so on. Armor is always replaced with different armor; melee weapon is always replaced with a different melee weapon; rings are always replaced with new rings. But new amulets/periapts/brooches are always in addition to what was possessed at the previous level, rather than replacing the previous one, suggesting the character has both rather than one or the other. heh This could be extremely annoying for my PCs when every hostile NPC they meet can always swap in the proper jewelry with which to thwart them :D (I remember when I was playing a low-level sorcerer and almost every "boss" the party encountered was wearing a brooch of shielding. I don't know if that was the DM's fault or the authors of the published adventure's fault.) Anyway, maybe this is something I need to ask directly of WotC or the authors of the books in question. I only noticed this because I don't have a game right now and I'm spending all my spare time amusing myself by generating NPCs. If I was in a game (as a player, anyway) running a PC, I probably wouldn't be spending all this time staring at these tables!
mvincent 07-03-06, 12:45 PM	I couldn't find it in the SRD, but on p.285 of the DMG it states that it is possible to create a magic item that does not take up space for purposes of calculating how many items can occupy that body slot. This doubles the normal cost of the itemIt is noted in the SRD on the Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm): "No space limitation (5) Multiply entire cost by 2" "5. An item that does not take up one of the spaces on a body costs double." Yes, that would work. I thought about it but I did not suggest it because a) it costs more and b) I do not allow people use of that table (it opens a door that often best kept shut).