Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tholas 02-09-08, 06:47 PM	I would like your comments on an item that came to my mind while I was pondering how to improve a char of mine. Unfortunately I don't have a good idea if this item is unbalanced or what it should cost to create. Generalist's Vestment Price (Item Level): ? Body Slot: Torso Caster Level: ? Aura: ? Activation: - Weight: 2lb This item is a boon to any character with multiple base classes. While wearing an generalist's vestment, your effective level in any base class you possess is threaded as two higher for the purpose of class features and special abilities. However, you do not gain new class features, an increased caster level or more spells per day. Also any effective class level can't exceed your character level. Furthermore it does not affect prestige class abilities and can't be used to qualify for feats and prestige classes. For example, a Cleric 3/Monk 3 wearing a generalist's vestment would be considered two levels higher for turning undead, level dependent domain abilities, caster level, flurry of blows attack bonus, unarmed damage, AC bonus and unarmored speed. However, he does not gain increased base attack/saves, new 4th and 5th lvl monk abilities, an increased caster level or more spells per day. Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Practiced Spellcaster feat, Limited Wish spell If this is too good I could change it to only affect the lowest(or highest) of all base classes, to just one level higher or exclude all abilities that are not listed under the special tab(So no flurry of blows attack bonus, unarmed damage, AC bonus and unarmored speed improvement in the above example). I would love to hear your comments.
molten_dragon 02-09-08, 07:36 PM	This doesn't seem too broken at first glance. There are items (monk's belt) and feats (practiced spellcaster) which do somewhat the same things. Not sure how you'd price it though.
Dracomorph 02-09-08, 07:43 PM	You should (IMO) say that it can't raise anything higher than your character level.
Eldritch_Lord 02-09-08, 07:46 PM	Looks good; I don't think it's anywhere near broken. Pricing might be an issue, but I'm not an expert at that. ----------------------- You should (IMO) say that it can't raise anything higher than your character level. It already says: However, you do not gain new class features or spells, nor can any effective class level exceed your character level.
StevenO 02-09-08, 08:12 PM	I think it is too open to interpertation and possibly abuse. What I understand it SHOULD do is increase all level dependent factors up two levels. This means some domain abilitys get power ups as does Turn Undead and a Paladin's Smite, a Rogue is treated as if two levels higher when delivering its SA allowing it to more easily overcome Improved Evasion, and caster levels increase plus some other things. There are however a number of things someone may think would be increased which should NOT be: Sneak Attack Damage should not increase; a Monk's unarmed damage should not increase (damage is read from the table) a nor should it gain more Flurry Attacks (although the penalty may go down) or increased movement or improved AC; basically if it is listed on the table it is NOT something that should be increased. Would allowing some of those things be "broken?" Probably not with only a +2 level increase which is usually only a single step at most but it is maybe a little unbalancing but even worse would set a precident which shouldn't exsist.
Eldritch_Lord 02-09-08, 08:40 PM	Well, a monk's belt increases everything--unarmed damage, AC boost, speed, etc.--by 4 levels, so increasing only special abilities for 2 levels per class shouldn't be that bad. Besides, let's face it, an extra +1d6 SA or 5 ft speed is nothing next to a full caster. I'd say let everything level-based increase.
Tholas 02-10-08, 03:05 AM	Thanks for your input. You should (IMO) say that it can't raise anything higher than your character level. As Eldritch_Lord mentioned, I took care of that with the "... nor can any effective class level exceed your character level." part. But I think it could be explicitly mentioned that it doesn't stack with advancements from prestige classes. So an cleric 8th/ sacred exorcist 3th/ contemplative 1th would turn like an 12th level cleric. ... a Monk's unarmed damage should not increase (damage is read from the table) a nor should it gain more Flurry Attacks (although the penalty may go down) or increased movement or improved AC; basically if it is listed on the table it is NOT something that should be increased. The monk is the only core class who has extra 'special tables', this is probably so because he features such an wide array of abilities. Would allowing some of those things be "broken?" Probably not with only a +2 level increase which is usually only a single step at most but it is maybe a little unbalancing but even worse would set a precident which shouldn't exsist. I'm not sure I can follow you here. Maybe you are thinking along the line of "Hey, take a few levels of rogue and/or monk, then let's imbue any worn item with an +X increase in class levels. Voila, uberness" Imho this sort of optimization is broken in itself and should not be tolerated by the GM, regardless what RAW says. Reading through items with similar abilities I would guess that the creation cost should be around 15-25k gold. If someone restricts the benefits to specific (pair of) classes it could be a bit cheaper. Update: I think the increased caster level part is just too good for dual casters, it could obsolete the need for at least one practised spellcaster feat. Since spellcasting is not listed under the special tab I consider removing that benefit. -> He's dead, Jim!