Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Uther_the_Raven 06-22-05, 04:32 PM	Ok, I'm guessing this is where I should be posting this. Attention all chemists on the boards! I'm looking for a game mechanic that adequately describes the effect of throwing a fist full of powdered lye in someone's face. Any takers out there? Background: So we're playing an eberon campaign and I'm playing a fellow who is a Ninja classs and is a cleaner, works for a slumlord as a handyman and janitor. Figured I'd use a good old fashioned trick akin to what Leon does in the films La Femme Nikita and The Professional, sans the jars of hydrochloric acid. So I worked out on a shopping spree to purchase a bag of lye roughly the size of a 5 pound bag of flour, something that any good janitor should have access to, no? Especially considering the amazing cleaning properties of a good sprinkling of lye. But I got into a bind and was forced to use a fist full of the lye, see there was this wizard dude, and well, he just wouldn't be quite. So I threw up a cloud of the stuff, figuring it would burn his eyes pretty good and cause a choking fit that would keep him from casting spells. Seemed to work , the caster wasnt able to do much after that and I was then able to eradicate ant potential threat from the bugger... For that session we decided it would work as a poison does, i think with primary effect being burning, 2d4 damage per round in the cloud (fort save for half), 1d4 damage per round (fort save for half) out of the cloud, lasting for 1d4 rounds after leaving the cloud. Secondary damage was blindness and coughing fits I believe. Does that seem like a viable mechanic for this sort of weapon? over powered / underpowered? Thoughts Ideas Suggestions? Thanks in advance!!!
Derren S. 06-22-05, 04:42 PM	For that session we decided it would work as a poison does, Ehm, no you didn't used it as poison. Poison doesn't do HP damage. I would rule it as a normal attack with a acid flask (it is powdered so it isn't as effective as liquid acid so the same damage) and if you are really generous a DC ~14 reflex save or be blinded. Don't forget, no called shots in D&D, so no "I throw XYZ into his eyes"
primemover003 06-22-05, 05:34 PM	yeah it's an alchemical grenade like weapon. Ranged touch, 10 ft increment, maybe imposes the Blinded condition for a 1d4 rounds or so?
BlackFiend 06-22-05, 11:34 PM	I disagree with everyones assessment. Lye is some deadly, deadly stuff. 1. Its very caustic and can cause serious injury or death if swallowed. 2. It can cause blindness if splashed into the eyes. It burns like an acid (thought its obviously not an acid) 3. It can burn skin. Painful, but not lethal burning. D&D: As acid, but with the following adjustments... Damage = 1d6 but with No splash damage A secondary way of use would be to splash the lye so that it can create a cloud of choking, burning fume. It does NO damage, but anyone within the 5' direct hit square would make a fort save DC 18 to avoid blindness for 1 round. It takes 3 doses of Lye to do this. Note: Making a dust cloud of lye should backfire. The cloud will persist for 2d6 rounds and could move with the air current, causing it to go back in the faces of those who employ it. As a DM, I have no problem cancelling the effect of the cloud if thrown into the wind...causing it instead effect the thrower of the lye.
Always-Late 06-22-05, 11:58 PM	I still don't think lye, a pretty common substance, will do as much damage as flaming oil. 1d6 damage is easily enough to kill a commoner, and I don't think that just that much stuff should cause death unless you swallow it.
Surreal 06-23-05, 03:43 AM	Now if you could get your hands on some phosphor...
tarkin 06-23-05, 08:55 AM	The problem is you specified Powdered Lye. Lye is just an alkaline substance, the chemical opposite of acid, but acts almost identical to it in most cases. Primitive man got it from running water through ash, and combined it with fats (lard), to make Soap. Lye is perfectly safe to touch as long as it is perfectly dry. The reason he wants to get the Lye in the eye is the eye is moist. I would give it a thrown range of 5ft, and treat it as a Reflex Save DC 15 (all you got to do is close your eyes for 2 seconds till it settles), if failed, blinded for 1d3 rounds and another save, Fort DC 20, if that is failed, blinded permanently. People with Resistance to Acid get a +5 bonus to the Fortitude save, immunity to acid are immune to the blinding effect. It would affect just one person. Or, you could add some water and call it acid, until chemistry came along, people probably thought alkalines and acid were the same thing. (In d20 there are LOTS of called shots, they just are not over-powered called shots. See Power Attack, Sneak Attack, Hamstring, Stunning Fist, etc.) --------------- For those that don't know: Acid: Chemical substance that in water, ionizes, releasing extra Hydrogen with a positive charge, and another ion with negative charge. Alkaline: Chemical substance that in water, ionizes, releasing extra Hydrogen-Oxygen molecules with a negative charge, and another ion with a positive charge. Salt + extra water: What you get when you mix an Acid and an Alkaline, usually using water as a catalyst.
Surreal 06-23-05, 05:14 PM	Salt + extra water: What you get when you mix an Acid and an Alkaline, usually using water as a catalyst. And usually lots of heat too.
ClementWillowbreaker 06-23-05, 05:49 PM	First of all, shoving your bare hand into a bag of lye should call for a Will save- there is enough moisture on your skin to dissolve the lye and raise the pH of your skin to the point it sizzles, and anyone that works with lye knows this- ever see Fight Club? Total Will save, not to mention the same damage to you as to him. As for the blinding effect, I think that is too much. Rather than a prepared weapon substance like alchemist's fire, you are improvising. I would have played the wizard as disoriented and coughing, and just give you a surprise round and autowin initiative for throwing him so off guard. If you can fight normally after being swallowed whole and being digested for 3 rounds by a Purple Worm without going blind (in the technical DnD penalty sense), a quick dash of lye should be something to scream about at camp afterwards until you get a DC20 Heal check.
Sinaz 06-23-05, 06:05 PM	I agree with just treating it as acid damage... fudge the chemistry just to get the game flowing. neat trick though.