Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jkpsmp1 01-21-05, 10:49 AM	The whip and whip dagger are the only melee weapons that cause an attack of opportunity when used. The old builder book "Sword and Fist" fixed that problem with the Lasher prestige class. I am okay that the class was not included in the "Complete" Series, but what I am not okay with is the inability to remove the attack of opportunity. Spell Casters and Ranged Weapons have feats to remove attacks of opportunity, but there is not feat or ability for a Whip user to remove AOOs. Have I missed something? Or did whips just slip through the cracks? Jeff [Thronton Stormbreaker IV] - Upset Lasher
DM Zoc 01-21-05, 05:39 PM	The whip dagger wasn't updated because it was silly. It's the same reason why they cut out mercurial weapons. Without a whip dagger, I can imagine that the reason the whip wasn't expanded upon is because it can't deal damage.
jkpsmp1 01-25-05, 08:37 AM	Whip Daggers are not Silly. I am guessing that you have never seen a Lasher with a whip dagger in action. He is everybodys best friend. He is the master of tripping and disarming - without getting in the way of other fighters. The whip dagger needs to be updated in 3.5 - they made a sourge, but no whip dagger!
Edymnion 01-25-05, 10:01 AM	Well, you don't have to wait on WotC. Look at the 3.0 Whip and Whip Dagger, see how it was upgraded, then apply the same type upgrade to the 3.5 whip to get a 3.5 whip dagger.
Lord Schpungus 01-25-05, 11:05 AM	It doesn't need much - the only change to the whip was they made it a melee weapon, while in 3.0 it was a ranged weapon. That changes the ability from Dex to Str, but you can finesse whips in 3.5, so it's okay.
jkpsmp1 01-25-05, 11:11 AM	The problem is that I use the whip dagger in a living campaign because it is not part of the official WOTC documentation - I can no longer use the weapon. :(
crazysamaritan 01-25-05, 02:50 PM	Without a whip dagger, I can imagine that the reason the whip wasn't expanded upon is because it can't deal damage. It can deal damage, so long as the requirements are not passed.
crazysamaritan 01-26-05, 03:09 AM	so it's not in complete adventureer?
Enaloindir 01-26-05, 07:53 AM	Nope, no whip dagger in CV :( Enaloindir
Edymnion 01-26-05, 11:29 AM	The problem is that I use the whip dagger in a living campaign because it is not part of the official WOTC documentation - I can no longer use the weapon. :(Thats okay, there's plenty more stuff you can do in the RPGA, all sorts of horribly broken combinations that the DMs are forced to allow because "its in the rules"...
Mort_Q 01-26-05, 01:03 PM	It can deal damage, so long as the requirements are not passed. It can only deal nonlethal damage and then only if the opponent isn't anything any armour. So it's good for distracting some casters and for tripping and disarming others. Whip: A whip deals nonlethal damage. It deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher. The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes). Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon. You can make trip attacks with a whip. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the whip to avoid being tripped. When using a whip, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to keep from being disarmed if the attack fails). You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a whip sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you. The part that really sucks is that a whip doesn't allow you to threaten a square, so no AoO for you, but everyone gets one on you. Now a Brilliant Energy Vorpal Whip, on the otherhand....
crazysamaritan 01-26-05, 03:22 PM	nonlethal damage. It does deal damage, and you can take -4 to it... I agree it's not that great since it can't threaten, and provokes an AoO. You know what's really stupid? You can take feats/classes to keep the bow from provoking, but not the whip... I'm using one right now, pretty much limited to tripping...
Mort_Q 01-26-05, 05:10 PM	Whip: A whip deals nonlethal damage. It deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher. It doesn't even deal nonlethal damage it most cases, as very few PCs or NPCs run around with no armour.
crazysamaritan 01-26-05, 05:51 PM	Which is why I'm pretty much limited to tripping... :rolleyes: