"Dextrous Moves" armor enhancement [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Dextrous Moves" armor enhancement [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Felyndaer
11-26-06, 02:39 AM I have been playing an epic character for a good long time, and he has a ridiculously high Dexterity modifier.
As such, I can wear no armor at all, lest I lose more than there is to gain.

As such, I had a pretty good idea for a magical armor enhancement!

Dextrous Moves
Armor enchanted with "Dextrous Moves" has no maximum dexterity modifier. This enhancement can only affect Light armor, and cannot affect armor reduced to light by special materials (like Mithral).

I was thinking of making it a +2 bonus.
So, what do you guys think?
Nezkrul
11-26-06, 03:06 AM no, id make it a +6 modifier, its epic worthy, and thats where it would shine best.
Felyndaer
11-26-06, 03:31 AM no, id make it a +6 modifier, its epic worthy, and thats where it would shine best.

But at the same time, the +6 would bump up its price so much that it would make the armor altogether obsolete, and you could easily afford Bracers of AC +8 for slightly more than 1/10 of a basic +1 Dex. Moves armor...
bondious
11-26-06, 04:46 AM In the Magic of Faerun handbook there is an armor enhancement called "Nimbleness", which adds +2 to the max Dex and -1 to the armor check, and it's a +1 market bonus ability. It's a 3.0 book, but I'm sure it's still valid.

Add a few of these to a "high max Dex" armor, along with mithral (of course), and you MIGHT have what you need WITHOUT spending Epic amounts of gold to do it...though I don't know for sure because I don't know your character's Dex.

Anyhow, hope this helps. :D
TheDarkLord
11-26-06, 04:49 AM While i've just now started thinking about it, some brains other than myself might have a better solution. Instead of a Max Dex bonus, why not give Armor a Dex Penalty.

Say full plate might have a +1 Max dex, instead why not give it a -6 Dex penalty?

I havent had the time to fully hash it out yet, but it may work.
VonRichthofen
11-26-06, 08:51 AM Here comes old "how to break it" again.

Allowing for your proposal, a LG character with Dex of, say, 40, could go for the Vassal of Bahamut Prestige class and BANG!

He's got light armor with unlimited Dexterity bonus and the potential to grant up to +18 AC bonus under epic rules.

(up to +13 pre-epic)

Not so good an idea.

Face it, uber-dex build are bound for bracers, that's their fate in the game.
Kalis Atrud
11-26-06, 11:08 AM Gnome Twistcloth armor in the Races of Stone. 1 ac, no dex limit. Of course even if it is enchanted, a character below 40 dex probably gets more out of the Armor of the Celestial Battalion. Despite the name, twistcloth is of course available to anybody, as the weight/price is listed for medium characters. You could even avoid exotic armor proficiency as it has no armor check penalties and is considered exotic light armor.
Felyndaer
11-26-06, 09:43 PM Here comes old "how to break it" again.

Allowing for your proposal, a LG character with Dex of, say, 40, could go for the Vassal of Bahamut Prestige class and BANG!

He's got light armor with unlimited Dexterity bonus and the potential to grant up to +18 AC bonus under epic rules.

(up to +13 pre-epic)

Not so good an idea.

Face it, uber-dex build are bound for bracers, that's their fate in the game.

Yes, but one of the armotr's prerequisites is that the armor is made of no special material which drops it to light. I would count the platinum armor as being "modified" to be lighter. As such, no dice.

Besides, if a vassal is able to get his dex up to 40 in the first place, I would have to suspect foul play.
Ryu Katsuragi
11-26-06, 10:00 PM I have to agree... I see it as being vastly overpowered for 'just' +2. It's quite a jump from +1 for an extra 2, to +2 for infinate.
VonRichthofen
11-27-06, 08:06 AM Besides, if a vassal is able to get his dex up to 40 in the first place, I would have to suspect foul play.

See, that's how we all differ.

I, for my side, have to suspect foul play if a player pops up saying: "The rules don't favor my character concept the way I think they should, please help me find arguments to break them."

How nice we can all have our own ideas on the game! :D
tarkin
11-27-06, 11:07 AM +2 is ridiculously low price for such a valuable enchantment.

It would cost at LEAST +6, and I would probably declare it an Epic enchantment, only createable by a 21st+ level caster.

Keep in mind the existing 3.0 enchantment Nimblenss:

Cost: +1 cost
Benefit: +2 to Max Dex, -1 to ACP.

Using that twice, for a +2 cost, you should get at most a +4 to Max Dex.

------------------------------------------------

What to do if your Dex is greater than 30:

1) Where Mage Armor
2) Where a Robe, Obi or Vestament.

Note, the highest non-armor Armor AC I found was Complete Arcane's Dyrr's Impervious Vestament. +9 AC (plus Blade barrier effect)
XalinPhir
11-27-06, 01:29 PM i think your also missing the point that why wear armor when your epic, unless you really have to reley on it, its there to protect you because your to slow to dodge etc. Mostly for fighters who focus on strength and killing foes before they can strike back, when your character is focused on damaging little by little but never being hit. Its the trade off and the two should never be mixed.

However, clothing does not hinder dex, so you could wear say a vest or a shirt, pants, etc. and add Armor bonuses to it, in a similar fashion that rings of protection and etc add an armor bonus, if you epic these enchantments are even better than any fullplate could offer, with not spell failure, speed reduction, and the list goes on. And why not just go ahead and do this, after all any armor bonus granted by magic won't stack with real armor, so might as well wear the better. I could see a ninja wearing magically armored cloth that stiffins upon impact protecting the wearer, as we alsmost have material effective enough to do this in the real world, so magically created, sure why not, just consider the possibilities and dont get caught up in the armor hype, unless you more worried about status that armor brings, like the stereotype that theives wear leather armor and it looks cool, if thats the case spend a little extra gold and glamor it up to look like how you want it, the rules are all there.
Felyndaer
11-27-06, 05:00 PM Well, I wanted to be able to wear armor as more of a character thing than an actual functional thing...
If we make it a +6, yet again I must insist that that severely weakens it altogether. Why not just get Bracers of AC +8 for slightly more than 1/10 the cost of even a +1 Dextrous Moves armor?
I can see a +2 being too low, but I find an epic bonus just too high! Why not settle for a +4? It's expensive, you'll nnot likely get a light armor to grant you a +8 bonus like bracers would, AND you can be the belle of the ball with your oh-so-stylish studded leather?
I don't think limitless DEX modifier is all that great, as the Gnomish Twistcloth (which was mentioned a tad earlier in this thread) already has no Max DEX. Maybe we could put in a further prerequisite that the armor so enchanted cannot be made mainly of metal? This completely takes out the Vassal of Bahamut possibility, if someone were to argue that it is the magic of the suit that makes it light, and not the material.
Ryu Katsuragi
11-27-06, 05:26 PM I have to agree with Xalin. If the style is what's so importance, get some Bracers of Armour and glamer them. Then it can be whatever armour you want it to (looks-wise).
bondious
11-27-06, 05:44 PM I have to agree with Xalin. If the style is what's so importance, get some Bracers of Armour and glamer them. Then it can be whatever armour you want it to (looks-wise).

I second that, or if the armor bonus isn't necessary then just get a Hat of Disguise and/or a simple tunic or vest and glamer it to look like a suit of armor.

+8 Glamered Bracers of Armor would be like 66,700gp (64k for the enhancmeent bonus, 2,700gp to make it Glamered). Heck, you could even throw in +5 worth of more armor abilities, like Fortification or something, along with the "flat rate" additions like Slick or Fire Resistance.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Felyndaer 11-26-06, 02:39 AM	I have been playing an epic character for a good long time, and he has a ridiculously high Dexterity modifier. As such, I can wear no armor at all, lest I lose more than there is to gain. As such, I had a pretty good idea for a magical armor enhancement! Dextrous Moves Armor enchanted with "Dextrous Moves" has no maximum dexterity modifier. This enhancement can only affect Light armor, and cannot affect armor reduced to light by special materials (like Mithral). I was thinking of making it a +2 bonus. So, what do you guys think?
Nezkrul 11-26-06, 03:06 AM	no, id make it a +6 modifier, its epic worthy, and thats where it would shine best.
Felyndaer 11-26-06, 03:31 AM	no, id make it a +6 modifier, its epic worthy, and thats where it would shine best. But at the same time, the +6 would bump up its price so much that it would make the armor altogether obsolete, and you could easily afford Bracers of AC +8 for slightly more than 1/10 of a basic +1 Dex. Moves armor...
bondious 11-26-06, 04:46 AM	In the Magic of Faerun handbook there is an armor enhancement called "Nimbleness", which adds +2 to the max Dex and -1 to the armor check, and it's a +1 market bonus ability. It's a 3.0 book, but I'm sure it's still valid. Add a few of these to a "high max Dex" armor, along with mithral (of course), and you MIGHT have what you need WITHOUT spending Epic amounts of gold to do it...though I don't know for sure because I don't know your character's Dex. Anyhow, hope this helps. :D
TheDarkLord 11-26-06, 04:49 AM	While i've just now started thinking about it, some brains other than myself might have a better solution. Instead of a Max Dex bonus, why not give Armor a Dex Penalty. Say full plate might have a +1 Max dex, instead why not give it a -6 Dex penalty? I havent had the time to fully hash it out yet, but it may work.
VonRichthofen 11-26-06, 08:51 AM	Here comes old "how to break it" again. Allowing for your proposal, a LG character with Dex of, say, 40, could go for the Vassal of Bahamut Prestige class and BANG! He's got light armor with unlimited Dexterity bonus and the potential to grant up to +18 AC bonus under epic rules. (up to +13 pre-epic) Not so good an idea. Face it, uber-dex build are bound for bracers, that's their fate in the game.
Kalis Atrud 11-26-06, 11:08 AM	Gnome Twistcloth armor in the Races of Stone. 1 ac, no dex limit. Of course even if it is enchanted, a character below 40 dex probably gets more out of the Armor of the Celestial Battalion. Despite the name, twistcloth is of course available to anybody, as the weight/price is listed for medium characters. You could even avoid exotic armor proficiency as it has no armor check penalties and is considered exotic light armor.
Felyndaer 11-26-06, 09:43 PM	Here comes old "how to break it" again. Allowing for your proposal, a LG character with Dex of, say, 40, could go for the Vassal of Bahamut Prestige class and BANG! He's got light armor with unlimited Dexterity bonus and the potential to grant up to +18 AC bonus under epic rules. (up to +13 pre-epic) Not so good an idea. Face it, uber-dex build are bound for bracers, that's their fate in the game. Yes, but one of the armotr's prerequisites is that the armor is made of no special material which drops it to light. I would count the platinum armor as being "modified" to be lighter. As such, no dice. Besides, if a vassal is able to get his dex up to 40 in the first place, I would have to suspect foul play.
Ryu Katsuragi 11-26-06, 10:00 PM	I have to agree... I see it as being vastly overpowered for 'just' +2. It's quite a jump from +1 for an extra 2, to +2 for infinate.
VonRichthofen 11-27-06, 08:06 AM	Besides, if a vassal is able to get his dex up to 40 in the first place, I would have to suspect foul play. See, that's how we all differ. I, for my side, have to suspect foul play if a player pops up saying: "The rules don't favor my character concept the way I think they should, please help me find arguments to break them." How nice we can all have our own ideas on the game! :D
tarkin 11-27-06, 11:07 AM	+2 is ridiculously low price for such a valuable enchantment. It would cost at LEAST +6, and I would probably declare it an Epic enchantment, only createable by a 21st+ level caster. Keep in mind the existing 3.0 enchantment Nimblenss: Cost: +1 cost Benefit: +2 to Max Dex, -1 to ACP. Using that twice, for a +2 cost, you should get at most a +4 to Max Dex. ------------------------------------------------ What to do if your Dex is greater than 30: 1) Where Mage Armor 2) Where a Robe, Obi or Vestament. Note, the highest non-armor Armor AC I found was Complete Arcane's Dyrr's Impervious Vestament. +9 AC (plus Blade barrier effect)
XalinPhir 11-27-06, 01:29 PM	i think your also missing the point that why wear armor when your epic, unless you really have to reley on it, its there to protect you because your to slow to dodge etc. Mostly for fighters who focus on strength and killing foes before they can strike back, when your character is focused on damaging little by little but never being hit. Its the trade off and the two should never be mixed. However, clothing does not hinder dex, so you could wear say a vest or a shirt, pants, etc. and add Armor bonuses to it, in a similar fashion that rings of protection and etc add an armor bonus, if you epic these enchantments are even better than any fullplate could offer, with not spell failure, speed reduction, and the list goes on. And why not just go ahead and do this, after all any armor bonus granted by magic won't stack with real armor, so might as well wear the better. I could see a ninja wearing magically armored cloth that stiffins upon impact protecting the wearer, as we alsmost have material effective enough to do this in the real world, so magically created, sure why not, just consider the possibilities and dont get caught up in the armor hype, unless you more worried about status that armor brings, like the stereotype that theives wear leather armor and it looks cool, if thats the case spend a little extra gold and glamor it up to look like how you want it, the rules are all there.
Felyndaer 11-27-06, 05:00 PM	Well, I wanted to be able to wear armor as more of a character thing than an actual functional thing... If we make it a +6, yet again I must insist that that severely weakens it altogether. Why not just get Bracers of AC +8 for slightly more than 1/10 the cost of even a +1 Dextrous Moves armor? I can see a +2 being too low, but I find an epic bonus just too high! Why not settle for a +4? It's expensive, you'll nnot likely get a light armor to grant you a +8 bonus like bracers would, AND you can be the belle of the ball with your oh-so-stylish studded leather? I don't think limitless DEX modifier is all that great, as the Gnomish Twistcloth (which was mentioned a tad earlier in this thread) already has no Max DEX. Maybe we could put in a further prerequisite that the armor so enchanted cannot be made mainly of metal? This completely takes out the Vassal of Bahamut possibility, if someone were to argue that it is the magic of the suit that makes it light, and not the material.
Ryu Katsuragi 11-27-06, 05:26 PM	I have to agree with Xalin. If the style is what's so importance, get some Bracers of Armour and glamer them. Then it can be whatever armour you want it to (looks-wise).
bondious 11-27-06, 05:44 PM	I have to agree with Xalin. If the style is what's so importance, get some Bracers of Armour and glamer them. Then it can be whatever armour you want it to (looks-wise). I second that, or if the armor bonus isn't necessary then just get a Hat of Disguise and/or a simple tunic or vest and glamer it to look like a suit of armor. +8 Glamered Bracers of Armor would be like 66,700gp (64k for the enhancmeent bonus, 2,700gp to make it Glamered). Heck, you could even throw in +5 worth of more armor abilities, like Fortification or something, along with the "flat rate" additions like Slick or Fire Resistance.