"fist weapons" [Archive] - Wizards Community

"fist weapons" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tacomannerism
11-09-06, 01:28 PM Hi!

Are there any resources out there that describe weapons that basically just augment unarmed attacks? Like wrapping chains around your hands, etc. I have a player who wants his character to be a brute that smashes stuff with his fists... and am at a bit of a loss on what to tell him. He doesn't want to be a monk...
Guroth the Forsaken
11-09-06, 01:32 PM There are some type of metal bands in the Complete Psionic. They could also just put on some spiked gauntlets and pummel away.
bondious
11-09-06, 01:37 PM Hi!

Are there any resources out there that describe weapons that basically just augment unarmed attacks? Like wrapping chains around your hands, etc. I have a player who wants his character to be a brute that smashes stuff with his fists... and am at a bit of a loss on what to tell him. He doesn't want to be a monk...

Well, there's the gauntlet and spiked gauntlet, which augment the "fist" attack.

Gauntlet: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.

Gauntlet, Spiked: Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of spiked gauntlets. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. An attack with a spiked gauntlet is considered an armed attack.

I'm thinking that things like brass knuckles might fall under the "spiked gauntlet" area, since they are made specifically to reinforce your punches from a concentrated point. Other methods, like wrapping a chain around your fist, I'd say fall under the regular gauntlet rules, because you're making your hand heavier to lay down a solid, unfocused blow.

That's my take, anyhow.
Tacomannerism
11-09-06, 02:29 PM thanks!
Bowmore
11-09-06, 02:35 PM If he wants to build a non-monk unarmed character, pick up Tome of Battle. They have Superior Unarmed Strike in there, which gives non-monks the ability to do half-decent damage unarmed.

If you want a non-monk class specifically designed for unarmed combat, look at Tiluvias99's Core Class Competition: KNOCK-OUT! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=510435) Lots of good stuff there, plus a hilariously awesome Luchadore class.
mvincent
11-09-06, 02:57 PM Wrapping a chain around your fist likely qualifies as an improvised gauntlet. However, someone with Improved Unarmed Strike would effectively simply describe it as flavor and do their normal (lethal) damage.
bondious
11-09-06, 06:13 PM Wrapping a chain around your fist likely qualifies as an improvised gauntlet. However, someone with Improved Unarmed Strike would effectively simply describe it as flavor and do their normal (lethal) damage.

Yeah, I was thinking about it being an improvised weapon, too. I thought to myself, though, that a regular guy using a chain wrapped around his fist would only do d3 damage, and would STILL suffer an attack of opportunity since it would be considered an unarmed strike. Figured that he didn't need that -4 on top of that to discourage him, and since it's only d3 damage that it it didn't really matter that much.

I would just count it as a gauntlet and be done with it, in one of my games.
mvincent
11-09-06, 07:03 PM I would just count it as a gauntlet and be done with it, in one of my games.Seems fair
Reversefigure4
11-09-06, 07:59 PM It's not going to break the game. Ask the player what he wants. Fist chains, brass knuckles, Wolverine-style claws, spiked fingernail clip-ons, whatever. Make it some suitable damage - a gauntlet or spiked gauntlet is a fine base - and away you go.
_sl0t_
11-09-06, 10:07 PM He might not want to play a monk, but would be out of question to dip just one level in monk?
This gives him FoB, Improved Unarmed Attack, monk damage, Wis bonus to AC and an extra feat.

Either way, I agree with Reversefigure4. Ask him what he wants and adapt it based on gauntlet stats and another weapon of same damage type.
draconic_swine
11-09-06, 10:24 PM You can also comb through this (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/weapons.pl?all) site to find other related weapons or ideas.
Ryu Katsuragi
11-09-06, 10:35 PM There was a magical item I remember mentioned somewhere, I don't know, but the 'Gauntlets of the Dwarven Forge'. 1d10+something damage.

Or, maybe like what I've done: For one player I've had, on the spur of the moment (dunno' if it's balanced or not), I basically gave him half the feats of a Fighter, AC bonus, full BAB, full saves and gave him the title of 'Pugilist'. And it was done. Think I might write something up, at some point.
TheAnthroDM
11-09-06, 11:17 PM Gloves, with weapon enhancement.
draconic_swine
11-10-06, 08:51 AM Didn't the FAQ rule that you can't put weapon enhancements on gloves? I can't remember anymore ... all the various arguments about putting enhancements on gloves to improve monks have run together in my mind ....
mvincent
11-10-06, 01:37 PM Didn't the FAQ rule that you can't put weapon enhancements on gloves? There are several (conflicting) FAQ rulings regarding monks and guantlets, but the glove restriction is more of an implied RAW thing I believe.

The more common solutions to enhance fists are:
1) magically enhanced gauntlets (suitable for a monk only with DM permission)
2) Amulet of might fists
3) Monk's belt
4) Permanent greater magic fang (for monk)
angryscrub
11-10-06, 02:20 PM If the player wants to be a fist smashing brute, definitely have him look into taking some barbarian levels, and maybe the streetfighter PrC, and even reaping mauler. The thug variant fighter from unearthed arcana is good for this, too, to help get some extra skill points.
WinterPsionic
11-10-06, 05:53 PM SS has the "Beast Claws" and "Storm Gauntlets"...neither one are really "brute" typue things but they can be used as the base of an idea.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tacomannerism 11-09-06, 01:28 PM	Hi! Are there any resources out there that describe weapons that basically just augment unarmed attacks? Like wrapping chains around your hands, etc. I have a player who wants his character to be a brute that smashes stuff with his fists... and am at a bit of a loss on what to tell him. He doesn't want to be a monk...
Guroth the Forsaken 11-09-06, 01:32 PM	There are some type of metal bands in the Complete Psionic. They could also just put on some spiked gauntlets and pummel away.
bondious 11-09-06, 01:37 PM	Hi! Are there any resources out there that describe weapons that basically just augment unarmed attacks? Like wrapping chains around your hands, etc. I have a player who wants his character to be a brute that smashes stuff with his fists... and am at a bit of a loss on what to tell him. He doesn't want to be a monk... Well, there's the gauntlet and spiked gauntlet, which augment the "fist" attack. Gauntlet: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets. Gauntlet, Spiked: Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of spiked gauntlets. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. An attack with a spiked gauntlet is considered an armed attack. I'm thinking that things like brass knuckles might fall under the "spiked gauntlet" area, since they are made specifically to reinforce your punches from a concentrated point. Other methods, like wrapping a chain around your fist, I'd say fall under the regular gauntlet rules, because you're making your hand heavier to lay down a solid, unfocused blow. That's my take, anyhow.
Tacomannerism 11-09-06, 02:29 PM	thanks!
Bowmore 11-09-06, 02:35 PM	If he wants to build a non-monk unarmed character, pick up Tome of Battle. They have Superior Unarmed Strike in there, which gives non-monks the ability to do half-decent damage unarmed. If you want a non-monk class specifically designed for unarmed combat, look at Tiluvias99's Core Class Competition: KNOCK-OUT! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=510435) Lots of good stuff there, plus a hilariously awesome Luchadore class.
mvincent 11-09-06, 02:57 PM	Wrapping a chain around your fist likely qualifies as an improvised gauntlet. However, someone with Improved Unarmed Strike would effectively simply describe it as flavor and do their normal (lethal) damage.
bondious 11-09-06, 06:13 PM	Wrapping a chain around your fist likely qualifies as an improvised gauntlet. However, someone with Improved Unarmed Strike would effectively simply describe it as flavor and do their normal (lethal) damage. Yeah, I was thinking about it being an improvised weapon, too. I thought to myself, though, that a regular guy using a chain wrapped around his fist would only do d3 damage, and would STILL suffer an attack of opportunity since it would be considered an unarmed strike. Figured that he didn't need that -4 on top of that to discourage him, and since it's only d3 damage that it it didn't really matter that much. I would just count it as a gauntlet and be done with it, in one of my games.
mvincent 11-09-06, 07:03 PM	I would just count it as a gauntlet and be done with it, in one of my games.Seems fair
Reversefigure4 11-09-06, 07:59 PM	It's not going to break the game. Ask the player what he wants. Fist chains, brass knuckles, Wolverine-style claws, spiked fingernail clip-ons, whatever. Make it some suitable damage - a gauntlet or spiked gauntlet is a fine base - and away you go.
_sl0t_ 11-09-06, 10:07 PM	He might not want to play a monk, but would be out of question to dip just one level in monk? This gives him FoB, Improved Unarmed Attack, monk damage, Wis bonus to AC and an extra feat. Either way, I agree with Reversefigure4. Ask him what he wants and adapt it based on gauntlet stats and another weapon of same damage type.
draconic_swine 11-09-06, 10:24 PM	You can also comb through this (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/weapons.pl?all) site to find other related weapons or ideas.
Ryu Katsuragi 11-09-06, 10:35 PM	There was a magical item I remember mentioned somewhere, I don't know, but the 'Gauntlets of the Dwarven Forge'. 1d10+something damage. Or, maybe like what I've done: For one player I've had, on the spur of the moment (dunno' if it's balanced or not), I basically gave him half the feats of a Fighter, AC bonus, full BAB, full saves and gave him the title of 'Pugilist'. And it was done. Think I might write something up, at some point.
TheAnthroDM 11-09-06, 11:17 PM	Gloves, with weapon enhancement.
draconic_swine 11-10-06, 08:51 AM	Didn't the FAQ rule that you can't put weapon enhancements on gloves? I can't remember anymore ... all the various arguments about putting enhancements on gloves to improve monks have run together in my mind ....
mvincent 11-10-06, 01:37 PM	Didn't the FAQ rule that you can't put weapon enhancements on gloves? There are several (conflicting) FAQ rulings regarding monks and guantlets, but the glove restriction is more of an implied RAW thing I believe. The more common solutions to enhance fists are: 1) magically enhanced gauntlets (suitable for a monk only with DM permission) 2) Amulet of might fists 3) Monk's belt 4) Permanent greater magic fang (for monk)
angryscrub 11-10-06, 02:20 PM	If the player wants to be a fist smashing brute, definitely have him look into taking some barbarian levels, and maybe the streetfighter PrC, and even reaping mauler. The thug variant fighter from unearthed arcana is good for this, too, to help get some extra skill points.
WinterPsionic 11-10-06, 05:53 PM	SS has the "Beast Claws" and "Storm Gauntlets"...neither one are really "brute" typue things but they can be used as the base of an idea.