"Merciless" Weapon Enhancement .:PEACH:. [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Merciless" Weapon Enhancement .:PEACH:. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AnduirAbersand
04-21-07, 11:29 PM Please lemme know if this is overpowering (and thus I should make it more expensive) or if I can afford to lower to cost at all... muchly appreciated, as well, feel free to give any other input you may wish.

EDITED::
"Merciless"
Cost: +2 enhancement bonus
Benefit: A Merciless weapon deals an extra damage die worth of damage. For example, a merciless dagger deals a total of 2d4, a merciless longsword deals 2d8, a merciless greatsword deals 3d6, et. al.
Fluff: A merciless weapon is always marked with blood, always looks "regularly used", and never looks polished or brand-new. It seems to hum with a malicious, blood-wanting tone when wielded it combat, literally screaming as it strikes.

Any suggestions? Input?
draconic_swine
04-21-07, 11:46 PM I'd say this is quite overpriced. Since it's only the weapon's base damage that is maximized (i.e., sneak attack, flaming, and the like aren't maximized) and the extra critical damage is rolled normally, I'd say this is probably worth a +1, maybe +2. There's not a whole lot of benefit to warrant the +5.
Holy_Beholder
04-21-07, 11:48 PM There is no way that is worth +5. Take someone who can afford a +5 weapon, say a 20th level fighter with a great sword. It is counter productive.
Merciless great sword=12+5 power attack+8 from Str 20=25
Great sword+5=7(average)+5(magic)+5 power attack+8 from Str 20=25

Now for a critical
Merciless great sword=14+10 power attack+16 from Str 20=40
Great Sword +5=14+10 magic+10 power attack+16 from Str=50

Now for on the other end of the damage spectrum, a dagger
Merciless dagger=4+2 from Str 20=6
Dagger+5=2+5 magic+2 from Str 20=11

It has no extra damage, has less damage with lighter weapons or crits, and sucks. However if you keep the maxed damage from crits from the great sword then you get

Merciless great sword 24+10 power attack+16 from Str 20=50. What do you know, exactly the same as a simple +5.

Just my :twocents:
Holy_Beholder
04-21-07, 11:49 PM My post might seem pointless, but only because swine posted while I was still writing *mutters*
BluEnigma
04-22-07, 12:57 AM Best use would be in a natural attacks, size-increasing build where most of the damage comes from base weapon dice.

Valorous doubles damage (including PA, STR bonus, etc.) on a charge and is a +3 enhancement. This does about the same, but is on all the time, but only doubles base weapon damage. I'd rate it a +2 to +3.
Nall_The_Azure_Guardian
04-22-07, 01:03 AM I'd call it a +2 simply because that's the equivalent of 2 d6 elemental die on the strongest basic weapon

A merciless great sword is a guaranteed 12 damage
where as a holy great sword is a 4d6 (4-24) average = 14

It's a nice boosts and is a little weaker since the user is afraid to roll dice
I like it
Keenath
04-22-07, 01:48 AM The main issue I have with this is that it's only good on certain weapons. Nobody would put this on a scimitar, where it's only worth +3.5 damage, but it's a no-brainer to stick it on a greatsword (+7 damage) or a greataxe (+6.5 damage).

Actually, I do have continuing issues with it... bigger and bigger weapons, such as a giant's greatsword (+10.5 dmg) are going to benefit far more from this, where that giant's greatsword still gains only +3.5 per elemental enhancement, same as everyone else.

I dislike enhancements that are disproportionately advantageous to those who are already at an advantage.
AnduirAbersand
04-22-07, 09:46 AM Keenath's point is true... the larger the weapon, the more damage. Maybe it's simply something that shouldn't exist... or ... okay. I'll rewrite it. :P

Edit: Go take a look now...
MakArios
04-22-07, 01:56 PM Normal:
Greatsword: 2d6, average 7.
Greataxe: 1d12, average 6.5.
With merciless:
Greatsword: 3d6, average 10.5.
Greataxe: 2d12, average 13.

It would probably be better if you`d add a dice based on the size of the weapon (with the max of, let`s say... 1d10?) then what you have know. But I don`t know, it still looks odd and hard to apply to most weapons.
jaelis
04-22-07, 02:49 PM Keying it off the weapon's base damage is always going to be uneven unless the price takes the base damage into account.

So what flavor are you after here... just more damage? Use collision (+5 damage for a +2 modifier). Rolling more dice? Have it up the base damage by +1d4 as a +1 ability, or +1d8 for +2. A nasty vicious weapon? Use the existing vicious ability. A particularly bloodthirsty weapon? Give it a +4 to confirm criticals as a +1 ability. Something else? Let us know.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AnduirAbersand 04-21-07, 11:29 PM	Please lemme know if this is overpowering (and thus I should make it more expensive) or if I can afford to lower to cost at all... muchly appreciated, as well, feel free to give any other input you may wish. EDITED:: "Merciless" Cost: +2 enhancement bonus Benefit: A Merciless weapon deals an extra damage die worth of damage. For example, a merciless dagger deals a total of 2d4, a merciless longsword deals 2d8, a merciless greatsword deals 3d6, et. al. Fluff: A merciless weapon is always marked with blood, always looks "regularly used", and never looks polished or brand-new. It seems to hum with a malicious, blood-wanting tone when wielded it combat, literally screaming as it strikes. Any suggestions? Input?
draconic_swine 04-21-07, 11:46 PM	I'd say this is quite overpriced. Since it's only the weapon's base damage that is maximized (i.e., sneak attack, flaming, and the like aren't maximized) and the extra critical damage is rolled normally, I'd say this is probably worth a +1, maybe +2. There's not a whole lot of benefit to warrant the +5.
Holy_Beholder 04-21-07, 11:48 PM	There is no way that is worth +5. Take someone who can afford a +5 weapon, say a 20th level fighter with a great sword. It is counter productive. Merciless great sword=12+5 power attack+8 from Str 20=25 Great sword+5=7(average)+5(magic)+5 power attack+8 from Str 20=25 Now for a critical Merciless great sword=14+10 power attack+16 from Str 20=40 Great Sword +5=14+10 magic+10 power attack+16 from Str=50 Now for on the other end of the damage spectrum, a dagger Merciless dagger=4+2 from Str 20=6 Dagger+5=2+5 magic+2 from Str 20=11 It has no extra damage, has less damage with lighter weapons or crits, and sucks. However if you keep the maxed damage from crits from the great sword then you get Merciless great sword 24+10 power attack+16 from Str 20=50. What do you know, exactly the same as a simple +5. Just my :twocents:
Holy_Beholder 04-21-07, 11:49 PM	My post might seem pointless, but only because swine posted while I was still writing mutters
BluEnigma 04-22-07, 12:57 AM	Best use would be in a natural attacks, size-increasing build where most of the damage comes from base weapon dice. Valorous doubles damage (including PA, STR bonus, etc.) on a charge and is a +3 enhancement. This does about the same, but is on all the time, but only doubles base weapon damage. I'd rate it a +2 to +3.
Nall_The_Azure_Guardian 04-22-07, 01:03 AM	I'd call it a +2 simply because that's the equivalent of 2 d6 elemental die on the strongest basic weapon A merciless great sword is a guaranteed 12 damage where as a holy great sword is a 4d6 (4-24) average = 14 It's a nice boosts and is a little weaker since the user is afraid to roll dice I like it
Keenath 04-22-07, 01:48 AM	The main issue I have with this is that it's only good on certain weapons. Nobody would put this on a scimitar, where it's only worth +3.5 damage, but it's a no-brainer to stick it on a greatsword (+7 damage) or a greataxe (+6.5 damage). Actually, I do have continuing issues with it... bigger and bigger weapons, such as a giant's greatsword (+10.5 dmg) are going to benefit far more from this, where that giant's greatsword still gains only +3.5 per elemental enhancement, same as everyone else. I dislike enhancements that are disproportionately advantageous to those who are already at an advantage.
AnduirAbersand 04-22-07, 09:46 AM	Keenath's point is true... the larger the weapon, the more damage. Maybe it's simply something that shouldn't exist... or ... okay. I'll rewrite it. :P Edit: Go take a look now...
MakArios 04-22-07, 01:56 PM	Normal: Greatsword: 2d6, average 7. Greataxe: 1d12, average 6.5. With merciless: Greatsword: 3d6, average 10.5. Greataxe: 2d12, average 13. It would probably be better if you`d add a dice based on the size of the weapon (with the max of, let`s say... 1d10?) then what you have know. But I don`t know, it still looks odd and hard to apply to most weapons.
jaelis 04-22-07, 02:49 PM	Keying it off the weapon's base damage is always going to be uneven unless the price takes the base damage into account. So what flavor are you after here... just more damage? Use collision (+5 damage for a +2 modifier). Rolling more dice? Have it up the base damage by +1d4 as a +1 ability, or +1d8 for +2. A nasty vicious weapon? Use the existing vicious ability. A particularly bloodthirsty weapon? Give it a +4 to confirm criticals as a +1 ability. Something else? Let us know.