"Natural Secondary Attack" question. [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Natural Secondary Attack" question. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MC_Templar
03-15-08, 12:59 PM I just want to confirm my recollection here.

If I were playing a cleric with the hunger domain that gets a bite attack as a natural secondary attack, I can combine it with weapon attacks on a full attack action, right?

i.e.
melee weapon attack at full bonus
any iterative attacks
and bite attack (at full bonus -5)(only apply 1/2 Str)

is there any applicable rules that would modify the above listing that I need to know about? Functionally, what i listed above is what i believe i remember correctly, and I want to make sure there aren't any other rules out there that I am overlooking. For instance is there any rules about natural secondary attacks not being combinable with iterative attacks, or other potenial snags.

Thanks in advance for any help.
jaelis
03-15-08, 08:56 PM Yes, you have it exactly right.
groveborn
03-15-08, 09:18 PM I thought bite attacks used the full strength. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Also, you only ever get one attack with each natural weapon, I just wanted to cover that.
mplindustries
03-16-08, 02:50 AM I thought bite attacks used the full strength. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
Primary natural attacks uses your full strength bonus. Secondary natural attacks use half. Its irrelevant what kind of natural attack it is, just whether its primary or secondary.

Also, if I remember correctly, if you have only a single primary natural attack, you add 1 1/2 Str bonus to the damage.
MC_Templar
03-16-08, 07:09 PM Thanks for the help guys.
Suropej
03-17-08, 09:06 PM Kind of related to this:

Warforged get a natural slam attack, and can get feats that add another slam attack and one natural bite attack.

So a Warforged fighter, lets say +12 BAB, attacks with a sword.

Could he do three attacks with the sword at +12/+7/+2 then hit with his secondary attacks as two slams at +7 each and one bite at +7?

If not, please tell me how wrong I am. Sorry about the change in subject.
jaelis
03-17-08, 09:19 PM So a Warforged fighter, lets say +12 BAB, attacks with a sword.

Could he do three attacks with the sword at +12/+7/+2 then hit with his secondary attacks as two slams at +7 each and one bite at +7?

The rules aren't entirely clear, but I suspect most DMs would say that you need an arm free to attack with a slam, and presumably two arms for two slams. Attacking with the sword uses up one arm. If you had a shield, that would use up the other.
Suropej
03-17-08, 10:00 PM It's tough to say. Slam attacks are done with an arm, but you need to swing it. It's not a real big deal to me, I was more focused on the attacks, the number of them, and the bonuses on them.

Thanks for the input Jaelis.
mplindustries
03-17-08, 11:17 PM It's tough to say. Slam attacks are done with an arm, but you need to swing it.
Slam attacks aren't necessarily done with an arm. Ooze's usually have slam attacks, and the Zombie template gives slam attacks, even to creatures such as snakes or dogs or other things like that.

I've actually always viewed slam attacks as some kind of shoulder ram actually. And if you need to picture it as an arm-type attack, why couldn't it be a big punch or backhand? You can definitely punch someone with a sword in your hands.

Truth is, though, that while all natural weapons have names, those names are irrelevant, as there is nothing in the rules that requires you have anything free to use them. You can technically use a claw attack with a sword in that hand, though it seems rather counterintuitive.

Anyway, you are correct about the hypothetical warforged character's full attack. Remember that you'd only add half your strength bonus to your secondary natural weapon damage (which in this case is all of them).

Sword: +12/+7/+2
Bite: +7
Slam: +7/+7
jaelis
03-17-08, 11:26 PM You can technically use a claw attack with a sword in that hand, though it seems rather counterintuitive.

It is also never observed in a monster attack entry.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MC_Templar 03-15-08, 12:59 PM	I just want to confirm my recollection here. If I were playing a cleric with the hunger domain that gets a bite attack as a natural secondary attack, I can combine it with weapon attacks on a full attack action, right? i.e. melee weapon attack at full bonus any iterative attacks and bite attack (at full bonus -5)(only apply 1/2 Str) is there any applicable rules that would modify the above listing that I need to know about? Functionally, what i listed above is what i believe i remember correctly, and I want to make sure there aren't any other rules out there that I am overlooking. For instance is there any rules about natural secondary attacks not being combinable with iterative attacks, or other potenial snags. Thanks in advance for any help.
jaelis 03-15-08, 08:56 PM	Yes, you have it exactly right.
groveborn 03-15-08, 09:18 PM	I thought bite attacks used the full strength. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Also, you only ever get one attack with each natural weapon, I just wanted to cover that.
mplindustries 03-16-08, 02:50 AM	I thought bite attacks used the full strength. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Primary natural attacks uses your full strength bonus. Secondary natural attacks use half. Its irrelevant what kind of natural attack it is, just whether its primary or secondary. Also, if I remember correctly, if you have only a single primary natural attack, you add 1 1/2 Str bonus to the damage.
MC_Templar 03-16-08, 07:09 PM	Thanks for the help guys.
Suropej 03-17-08, 09:06 PM	Kind of related to this: Warforged get a natural slam attack, and can get feats that add another slam attack and one natural bite attack. So a Warforged fighter, lets say +12 BAB, attacks with a sword. Could he do three attacks with the sword at +12/+7/+2 then hit with his secondary attacks as two slams at +7 each and one bite at +7? If not, please tell me how wrong I am. Sorry about the change in subject.
jaelis 03-17-08, 09:19 PM	So a Warforged fighter, lets say +12 BAB, attacks with a sword. Could he do three attacks with the sword at +12/+7/+2 then hit with his secondary attacks as two slams at +7 each and one bite at +7? The rules aren't entirely clear, but I suspect most DMs would say that you need an arm free to attack with a slam, and presumably two arms for two slams. Attacking with the sword uses up one arm. If you had a shield, that would use up the other.
Suropej 03-17-08, 10:00 PM	It's tough to say. Slam attacks are done with an arm, but you need to swing it. It's not a real big deal to me, I was more focused on the attacks, the number of them, and the bonuses on them. Thanks for the input Jaelis.
mplindustries 03-17-08, 11:17 PM	It's tough to say. Slam attacks are done with an arm, but you need to swing it. Slam attacks aren't necessarily done with an arm. Ooze's usually have slam attacks, and the Zombie template gives slam attacks, even to creatures such as snakes or dogs or other things like that. I've actually always viewed slam attacks as some kind of shoulder ram actually. And if you need to picture it as an arm-type attack, why couldn't it be a big punch or backhand? You can definitely punch someone with a sword in your hands. Truth is, though, that while all natural weapons have names, those names are irrelevant, as there is nothing in the rules that requires you have anything free to use them. You can technically use a claw attack with a sword in that hand, though it seems rather counterintuitive. Anyway, you are correct about the hypothetical warforged character's full attack. Remember that you'd only add half your strength bonus to your secondary natural weapon damage (which in this case is all of them). Sword: +12/+7/+2 Bite: +7 Slam: +7/+7
jaelis 03-17-08, 11:26 PM	You can technically use a claw attack with a sword in that hand, though it seems rather counterintuitive. It is also never observed in a monster attack entry.