Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Necropolitan 10-30-06, 02:25 PM	Welcome! Ok here's the final version of the Executioner's Axe; the Hood as been dropped for discovery of a much better, simialr item already existing, and I've noted the tradeoffs for the Con Damage, and upped ther Power Attack ratio requirement to +5 rather then +3; further limiting it's potential by making it harder to connect with the Con Damage, and thus scaling it nicely over the levels. I'm also working with another concept of adding a d% chance on a Natrual 20 of automatically Decapitating a creature; instead of the Con Damage, but it's still in it's prelim stages. So enjoy! Axe, Executioner’s Two-Handed Exotic Weapon. Polearm, Shared Focus (Greataxe) 2d6 Slashing, 20/x3 critical 1,500 GP estimated price; or equivalent to a Dwarvencraft Large Greataxe. A grim and ugly weapon, these immense and cruel blades are intrinsically well-made in spite of their brutal appearance; created from detailed plans and extensive design and testing and a matching price tag for each custom-made blade; these axes are prized by Executioners and anyone wanting to simply lop a Foe’s head or limbs off with ease; benefiting from a heavy half-moon blade and a exceedingly well-balanced recurved haft; the weapons are surprisingly nimble in the right hands and can easily cleave armor, bone; and necks, as if they were wet tissue paper. With it’s wide blade and cruelly angled edge, it can easily chop flesh and crush bone to debilitating effect; and while often compared to the more common Greataxe or Bardiche, comparing the two is quite like comparing a Sharren Mosquito and a Thayen Bloostirge – sure both are dangerous, but one defiantly has the edge in killing potential. Special: A user who devotes at least 5 points to power attack during a blow; can opt to instead inflict an additional 1d6 Temporary Constitution damage on a critical hit sacrificing the bonus damage from Power attack and dropping it to only a x2 Damage Multiplier; if this Con Damage brings the victim to 0 HP or 0 Con; their head is Severed. When used against a incapacitaed or otherwise vunerable opponent for a Coup de`Grace; the weapon’s critical multiplier is effectively x4.
Vaalingrade Ashland 10-30-06, 02:39 PM	Please define: "Dwarvencraft" and "Extraordinary Mundane Item" That aside, the special on the axe seems a bit iffy to me. First, 1d6 Con damage is a LOT for a mundane weapon. Second, when do you make this descision? Before the attack roll? Third, you need to make it clearer than you're getting the Con damage instead of the bonus damage from Power attack. With the hood... I'm wondering why a mundane item is giving a bonus vs. Death effects. Fear, I can buy, but not Death. I'm hoping that the thing is at least priced like a magic item (you don't include a price), as its extraordinarily powerful.
RobbyPants 10-30-06, 02:43 PM	That aside, the special on the axe seems a bit iffy to me. First, 1d6 Con damage is a LOT for a mundane weapon. I agree. The flavor is pretty cool, but I feel an ability that powerful belongs on a magical item.
Necropolitan 10-30-06, 02:51 PM	Please define: "Dwarvencraft" and "Extraordinary Mundane Item" Dwarvencraft Is in Cwar I think; it's an additional +600 Gold on top of a normal Masterwork crafting; but I supplied a figure for a lower-level party, depending on DM's discrection. Either Way; price listed is for a Normal, non-masterwork Executioner's Axe. That aside, the special on the axe seems a bit iffy to me. First, 1d6 Con damage is a LOT for a mundane weapon. I could lower it to 1d4 easily enough; I just wanted to justfy nerfing the bonus damage from Power Attack and the x3 critical from the Axe's strike for something fancy. Second, when do you make this descision? Before the attack roll? Yes, like any other effect item; you make the desicsion when a critical threat is made, before the confirmation roll. Third, you need to make it clearer than you're getting the Con damage instead of the bonus damage from Power attack. You get a normal x2 critical damage with 1d6 TEMPORARY Con damage replacing the normal bonus from Power Attack; useful against Casters and the odd monster with a Lower Con-score or HP-relient abilites. Of course you can elect to just deal normal x3 critical damage and forgo the Con Damage; it's like a 'Power Swing'. With the hood... I'm wondering why a mundane item is giving a bonus vs. Death effects. Fear, I can buy, but not Death. It's a sort of psycho-somatic concept; being the bearer of Death, even if only in your mind, as an Executioner, makes Death less scary. It's only a +2 Circumstance bonus, You'd get the same from having a Wisdom anywhere above 11. I'm hoping that the thing is at least priced like a magic item (you don't include a price), as its extraordinarily powerful. ...It's a +2 circumstance bonus to a single, very specific sort of save, and a equal trade Negitive/Bonus to a pair of related skills. And a +2 to hit if you've got a specific feat, and another, exceedingly specialized weapon. To get the full effect it requires you to have three additional, non-supplied feats. I don't really buy that as extraordinarily powerful; hell, not compared to things like Yisgardian Heartwire or Pandemonic Silver.
Necropolitan 10-30-06, 02:53 PM	I agree. The flavor is pretty cool, but I feel an ability that powerful belongs on a magical item. I thought it was better then my inital concept. On a sucessful critical hit, the inital concept knocked an opponent prone and required a Str-Based DC fort-save or be stunned for 1d3 rounds. Can you say, instadeath?
Azdraugnor 10-30-06, 03:42 PM	Personally, I'd just make it 2d6 or 1d12 with a x4 critical, and no special abilities. That already indicates pretty lethal blows.
Necropolitan 10-30-06, 03:53 PM	Personally, I'd just make it 2d6 or 1d12 with a x4 critical, and no special abilities. That already indicates pretty lethal blows. Meh. I prefer to give my hombrews more style then that; it encourages my players and myself to think outside the box and is greatly useful in anti-munchkin ways. I also tend to scale back my campagins in a way; with magic there, but less common, and more powerful and utilitarian mundane items and weapons. I usually re-cast my own DMG style table of common Magical Items and Enhancements from a few books, even a few 3.0 at the higher-end stuff (Like Marrrowcrushing; nasty). In practice, it makes Mundane Items the 'Hey, that's cool thing' and revives the old shcool 'OMFG WOW <3' reaction to magical items. In short; it makes magic, magical again.
Necropolitan 10-30-06, 03:55 PM	Hn, Well just to see if you'd think it more balenced, how about if we leave it the same, but drop the Con Damage to 1d4?
Vaalingrade Ashland 10-30-06, 04:17 PM	I could lower it to 1d4 easily enough; I just wanted to justfy nerfing the bonus damage from Power Attack and the x3 critical from the Axe's strike for something fancy. Just crunching a few numbers here... 3-point power attack on crit with a x3 weapon = 18 damage. 1d4 Con damage (average 2.5) means an average hp loss of 1hp/HD. You need to hit a 18HD creature to make this worthwhile. To put is frankly, 1d6 Con is too much for a mundane weapon but 1d4 isn't worth giving up your power attack. I suggest ignoring the Con damage entirely and making this increase the crit multiplier but giving up PA bonuses. Yes, like any other effect item; you make the desicsion when a critical threat is made, before the confirmation roll. I've never seen this version of the mechanic. I've always seen them happen before the attack roll, not the confirmation roll. You get a normal x2 critical damage with 1d6 TEMPORARY Con damage replacing the normal bonus from Power Attack; useful against Casters and the odd monster with a Lower Con-score or HP-relient abilites. Of course you can elect to just deal normal x3 critical damage and forgo the Con Damage; it's like a 'Power Swing'. Wheither its tempoary is not the problem. What I was tlaking about is that you have to specifically denote that whenusing this option, you don't get the benefit of the Power Attack. It's a sort of psycho-somatic concept; being the bearer of Death, even if only in your mind, as an Executioner, makes Death less scary. It's only a +2 Circumstance bonus, You'd get the same from having a Wisdom anywhere above 11. However, it stacks with a Wis score of 12+. ...It's a +2 circumstance bonus to a single, very specific sort of save, and a equal trade Negitive/Bonus to a pair of related skills. 1) Its two specific saves; Death and Fear 2) How often do you suspect a character weilding an executioner's axe will be using diplomacy that doesn't involve blood splatter? And a +2 to hit if you've got a specific feat, and another, exceedingly specialized weapon. To get the full effect it requires you to have three additional, non-supplied feats. Speaking of that, this ability doesn't make a lot of sense. When weilding a BigAss (TM) Axe, and wearing a special hood, you fight nimbly and as part of your nimble fighting, you're better at hitting the guy you're dodging? Sounds magical to me. I don't really buy that as extraordinarily powerful; hell, not compared to things like Yisgardian Heartwire or Pandemonic Silver. Oi, Don't get me started on them.
Necropolitan 10-30-06, 07:16 PM	Perhaps I get too psycholigcal with my games for my own good. I view the +2 as synergystic with the +4 to Intimidate; you see someone with the muscles for BigAss Axe, wearing a black hood with death in his eyes running specifically at YOU and only YOU; well that'd scare me a bit, enough for me to fudge a parry or two. Hnnn, as for the Con Damage, that does make sense; but I was moreso counting on the actual cumulative loss of Con over time; Your average mage or PC Class Caster BBEG has what... 12-14 Con? Granted the axe's 2d6 damage will likely kill them first, in a party-attack scenario against something, the chances of getting multiple crits against a larger creature or a well-shielded or armored BBEG goes up signifgantly, and the 1d4, or 1d6 either way would start to add up over time. Take said Mage, for example; while the x3 critical probably wouldn't kill them, you could opt to cut a good chunk out of his Con score, 2.5 on average as you said, which could be enough to lower his Fort Save to crapola; then Mr. CoDzillia casts a approptiatly aligned spell, and turns him into goo. However, I do rather admit the ideal of temporaily making it's Critical Mulitplier higher does have it's appeal; but how would that be any better then just making it's critical 20/x4 period? I mean, if you can just choose to make it's critical one-step higher at any time, why wouldn't you ALWAYS do that, and forget the x3? Would 6d6+Power Attack+Strength damage be better then just a flat 8d6+Strength roll on a critical? The Hood I can work with some, it's more of an accessory to the Axe then a real stand-alone item, hell It could be a minor wonderous item with a few exctra buffs, maybe a gaze-based attack.
RobbyPants 10-31-06, 09:22 AM	This is just my opinion, but I think that ability damage is a bit too potent of an ability to add to a mundane weapon. The 1d4 route certainly is less overpowered, but here's another suggestion: I think it was in Unearthed Arcana (or it may have been something I read on these boards) of a varient crit system that did physical ability damage (Str, Dex, or Con) on criticals instead of extra HP damage. It would apply the standard weapon damage, split however the defender chooses, as ability damage. If you were to use a system like that, you could have your axe deal extra ability damage (which would make it fairly potent!). EDIT Come to think of it, I think this was something I read on the boards, not in Unearthed Arcana
Necropolitan 11-02-06, 09:37 PM	Alrighty people; I still need som einput here, I liek this weapon's idea alot, but I want it to be effective and not tread on the toes of Magical items. Give me responses.
Urzza 11-02-06, 11:40 PM	Well, just to get a feel here, you said that you have a bunch of other odd mundane items in your campaine, can you list some of them out?
Necropolitan 11-02-06, 11:45 PM	Well, just to get a feel here, you said that you have a bunch of other odd mundane items in your campaine, can you list some of them out? Certianly. Small Sheild, Abalitve. Extraordinary Mundane Item. Small: 800 GP Large: 1,200 GP Tower: 1,900 GP This shild appears to be a stack of triangular metal sheets stacked on top of one another, hinged at the point by a large circular disc, and bound by a sheaf of cloth. The disk actually contains a powerful spring-and-lock mechanism, and is deployed by cutting the cloth holding the sheets; which can be done as a Standard action, or a Swift Action with the Quick Draw feat. The panels then unfold into a large circular shield capable of cover one person's upper torso farily well; and is covered with layers of heat-absorbent cermaics. The sheild grants the user Fire Resistence 25 for a single round, or until the 25 points of fire is spent; afterwhich the sheild crumbles into charrred dust and slag, and is therefore useless. A Favorate amongst dragonslayers. There are Medium, Large and Tower vairents of the Abalitive sheild, that offer, 35, 45, and 55 points of FR respectivly, and are one-use only items. Longknife, Heartfang Exotic Light Weapon. 1d6 Piercing, 19-20/X2 Longknife: 1,600 GP Extra Poison Cartradges: 50gp. This long, slim knife is a favorite of rouges, assassins, or anyone who wants to kill someone with as little effort as possible; the recurve blade is hollow, with several small holes lining it’s flat. Carried within the hilt is a reload able reservoir large enough with a large enough space for 5 doses of Injury poison; On a critical hit the knife’s internal vacuum-pump automatically injects a single dose of venom into a target, but a user may spend a move-action depress a button on the hilt to manually disperse the poison, coating the blade automatically; making it a suitable throwing weapon, still quite lethally poisoned. Since the weapon is fed by a small cartridge inserted into the hilt, when coating the blade a character without Poison Use doesn’t suffer the usually 10% chance of accidentally poisoning themselves when applying poison to his blade. Shiverblade Exotic Medium Weapon 2d4, 18-20/x2 Price: 2,200 GP. Resembling nothing more then a very strange straight razor, a shiver blade is built like a giant tuning fork, two blades set vertically above and below one another on a single hilt; they always vibrate slightly, giving off a soft hum as they cut through the air. When a target is struck with a Critical Hit these two blades vibrate with extreme violence, sending harsh shockwaves through the subject’s skeletal system, and stunning them for 1d4 rounds if they fail a fortitude save (DC = 10+Attacker’s Strength Modifierx1.5), Using a Shiverblade untrained imparts a -4 penalty and a cumulative 5% per round chance of dropping the weapon due to ill-experience with the ‘shivering’ blade. There, just a few, but they should show what I'm working with.
Urzza 11-02-06, 11:53 PM	Cool. One thing tho, you might want to remember to slap some prices down on these things.
Necropolitan 11-02-06, 11:58 PM	Cool. One thing tho, you might want to remember to slap some prices down on these things. I have them, typically it's the price of their lesser mundane norms, like a Normal Longknife; plus double the Masterwork costs for each. Makes them still easier to get then magical items, but costly to replace on a constant basis, good balencing factors.
Urzza 11-03-06, 12:07 AM	I have them, typically it's the price of their lesser mundane norms, like a Normal Longknife; plus double the Masterwork costs for each. Makes them still easier to get then magical items, but costly to replace on a constant basis, good balencing factors. Can you put the prices on them when you post them please?
Nitan 11-03-06, 12:10 AM	The Shiver Blade is a two-handed weapon right?
Necropolitan 11-03-06, 12:10 AM	Can you put the prices on them when you post them please? ... I could, but I'm sort of failing to see how it helps me balence the Executioner's Axe. The prices range between 1200 and 2200 GP pretty much. I think the cheapest common item is the Longknife, which is 1,600 GP, plus 50gp for extra catrdages. I could list them all, but that'd take an assload of time, so why not use the scale I already put up and help me with the thread's focus?
Necropolitan 11-03-06, 12:11 AM	The Shiver Blade is a two-handed weapon right? Mhm, I thought I'd included that; but it's hard to control otherwise. I'd considered using a hand and a Half mechanic, but thought nah, it's good enough.
Necropolitan 11-03-06, 12:30 AM	There, prices listed. Now, am I just going to float here?
Urzza 11-03-06, 12:40 AM	... I could, but I'm sort of failing to see how it helps me balence the Executioner's Axe. The prices range between 1200 and 2200 GP pretty much. I think the cheapest common item is the Longknife, which is 1,600 GP, plus 50gp for extra catrdages. I could list them all, but that'd take an assload of time, so why not use the scale I already put up and help me with the thread's focus? Aaah, but this IS helping with the focus. One must know about other non-standard things in a campaign if they want to judge the balance of something. For example, in a normal game, an item that can be worn with light and medium armor, grants a +2 AC bonus, and DR 5/bludging, all for the price of 250 gold, would be CRAZY good. But in a game where if someone heal to many hitpoints via magic per day, the healer and healey might take permanent stat damage, it suddenly becomes a lot more reasonable.
Necropolitan 11-03-06, 12:45 AM	Mmm. I should also note this is Semi-Clockwork tech level, and generally lower-magic. The Game's setting has a split between Divine and Arcane magic, with Divine being typically 'Earthy' magic, like Druids, and Arcane magic and said associated creatures, like Werewolves, Vampires, and Elves; are actually a symptom of a courruption of reality, and are essetnially a Cancer on Existence. So your average 'Mage' is usually a very, veyr ****ed up individual, but Clerics and Druids are a more, Jedi-Like, universal and manipulative being. Also there's a centralized monetary system, so they use Paper Noteation monies with different vaules dpeentent on region; so carrying around 1,600 GP isn't back-breaking, but still isn't a walk in the park to collect. That help with what your aiming at? Arcane Magic is sort of dark and Icky, and Divine Magic is kinda a headache to get ahold of.
Urzza 11-03-06, 12:51 AM	The central banking thing is useful to know, but what I'm shooting to learn here is about inter campaign item balancing. If you can make a scan of your stuff, thatd be nice. But you still may want to think about typing it all up. That way you can can just e-mail it to new players, or have a good back up if you loose your notebook. Now, as for the stating item. As of now, it looks like it might be TOO specialised. Maybe if you took out the power-attack needing part of it, then upped the gold cost to match your other two posted weapons, then it'd, IMO, fit more, and balance out nicer.
Necropolitan 11-03-06, 12:54 AM	That's getting a WEE bit off topic, but here's another idea. What about a D% chance of the Axe automatically severing a opponent's head on a critical hit instead of the Con damage? Like Fortification in reverse, when a critical hit is rolled, rol D% and anything under say... 20 indicate an automatic head-chop; it's much less powerful then Vorpal, which again works automatically on a natrual 20. Heck, make it even natrual 20, and then D% to confirm. A failed percentile roll just deals normal x3 damage? Plus the x4 Coup `de Grace multiplier, cause it's suppsoe to chop heads.
ScipioX 11-03-06, 12:57 AM	The executioner's ax seems like a fine item. There's no need to be constrained to the boring damage/crit range/crit multiplier forumula of standard weapons. 1d6 con damage is kinda neat, but its not going to (1) come into play very often since it only works on crits and (2) and isn't going to outdamage the powerattack damage very often. So what you're left with is a neat effect that goes off now and again in the rare cases when its situational useful. As for when you decide it doesn't really matter, since you take the power attack penalty either way. The hood seems a bit over the top though. I'd say give it a +2 circumstance bonus to intimidate and a -4 penalty to diplomacy. The save vs. fear is maybe ok, but I'd definitely get rid of the save vs. death. It should have some sort of penalty to balance the fear save though if you keep that. The dodge synergy is too funky. I'd scrap that.
Urzza 11-03-06, 12:59 AM	Hmmm... Maybe. But I'd up the cost some and and a REF save, like the vorpal enchantment. But ditch the mask thing. Its too unweildy right now.
Necropolitan 11-03-06, 01:04 AM	Hn, I actually think I'll scrap the Hood All together, there's a pre-existing item that works better called the Mask of the Reaper that works pretty niftyily. Cause Fear at will is pretty hot. That's how I initally worked it; it's trading extra Power Attack damage on the critical for a conditional Stat Damage; which is tactically sound against some targets. But then people were just like '1d6 on a ONE IN TWENTY CHANCE? BLASMEHPY" and I started trying to rework it. The damn thing costs 1,000 gold for christ's sake. It's nto like everyone'll have one early one.
Necropolitan 11-03-06, 01:06 AM	Hmmm... Maybe. But I'd up the cost some and and a REF save, like the vorpal enchantment. But ditch the mask thing. Its too unweildy right now. ...The Vorpal enhancement doesn't have a Ref save; you roll a 20 and the damn thing's head comes off. Period. I figire if you roll a 20, and perhaps a save of some sort of d% roll would be substainially less powerful - but I still prefer the 1d6 con damage, because it's lacerating muscles and crunching bones like all hell.
Urzza 11-03-06, 01:15 AM	...The Vorpal enhancement doesn't have a Ref save; you roll a 20 and the damn thing's head comes off. Period. I figire if you roll a 20, and perhaps a save of some sort of d% roll would be substainially less powerful - but I still prefer the 1d6 con damage, because it's lacerating muscles and crunching bones like all hell. Huh, your right. Damn neverwinter nights has warped my brain!!! Anyways, yah a simple 1d6 extra con along with the crit could and would work. Then maybe a feat that lets you also do an extra 1d6 str? Also, PLEASE type up your items. They intrigue me. On a side note, do you use weapon groups from UA? Its sounds like it would be useful in your game. Link: http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedFeats.html
Necropolitan 11-03-06, 01:24 AM	Heh, that happens sometimes. OK! updated the first post with this hwo I think I should work it, and Nixed the hood. Let me know what you think!
Urzza 11-03-06, 01:28 AM	No, I dont think you got it right with this shot. I say this: No extra damage from criting and then have the 20% insta kill, 80% 2d4 con damage. You got an idea going here, its just a little trick to get done write.
Necropolitan 11-03-06, 01:33 AM	No, I dont think you got it right with this shot. I say this: No extra damage from criting and then have the 20% insta kill, 80% 2d4 con damage. You got an idea going here, its just a little trick to get done write. Hey, that's an interesting idea. So Basically it'd read like this. With Power Attack as Normal: 20/x3 damage. With Special Ability 20/ 2d4 Con or Decaptation 20%; no Multiplier? It's a steep trade, but for the possability of insta-killing most living (and some non-living beings) beings or dealing out 8 con damage is pretty nice for losing your Multiplier. I like the concept of maybe also having strength damage on just he 2d6 damage for the Con/Death rolls being x2 rather then just x1.5; just to assure that you won't FUBAR yourself if you roll two ones and a 100%.
Urzza 11-03-06, 08:05 PM	Well, I was thinking it would read like this: 2d6, crit x3/special On a critical hit, roll a pencentile die, on an 80 or above, treat as if the weapon of the Vorpal enchantment. If you roll less than 80, do an extra 2d4 con damage. Note, you may forgo these options and do a normal x3 critical hit.