"Universal" Items [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Universal" Items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WinterPsionic
04-16-07, 12:24 PM I seem to recall in 2e or 3.0 an item enhancement that stopped the degradation of an Items magic values as you hopped across the plains. Ex. A Ring of Prot +2 on the Prime is only a masterwork ring in the hells.

Is this still around? Or is there a particular plane I can craft the items on to stop /minimize the degradation ?
WinDReiN
04-16-07, 12:26 PM I don't think there is any degradation in 3.5Ed
WinterPsionic
04-16-07, 01:53 PM Hmmm is there anything to support that? From a dynamic standpoint it doesn't seem like anything would have changed regarding those rules.

If there is I guess I need to talk with my DM about it, he's using alot of 2e and 3.0 modules(mostly 3.0 I believe) so the effects are coming into play.
OamuTheMonk
04-16-07, 04:08 PM Hmmm is there anything to support that?

Supporting a negative? Like a quote from the 3.5 DMG saying "Magic items do not intrinsically change, from plane to plane. Seriously. They stay the same."

3.5 has no rules for Magic Item degredation. Period.

Some planar effects might suppress the functioning of a magic item (dead magic, impeded magic, etcetera), but those are rules specific to the plane, not to the overall cosmology.
draconic_swine
04-16-07, 04:54 PM Yup, definitely doesn't exist in 3.5. Although I'm not sure, I doubt it existed in 3.0 either, since this seems like it would be a really big change for a revision. I'd suggest poring through all of your 2e books (or finding a board dedicated to 2e).
Tempest Stormwind
04-16-07, 05:15 PM Read through the Manual of the Planes and the Planescape Junkie's Handbook (er, Planar Handbook) and you will find no mention of item degradation. Given how one was 3e and the other 3.5, it's clear degradation doesn't happen in this edition.

It's just another piece of garbage that was thrown out when D&D abandoned the shared-cosmology approach by default (you'll also note that the core books NEVER refer to it as the Prime or the Planes or anything of the sort so important; it's just a plane).

This is very much like the fact that Drow items don't decay in sunlight, despite what RA Salvatore might spew out -- this is intentional. (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/drowitemsdontdecay.html) The same reasoning should apply here to planar degradation, for exactly the same reasons. (Note the source: That's Sean K. Reynolds, one of the designers of this edition and an additional designer on the Manual of the Planes.)

The closest you'll get is the Spire in the Outlands cancelling magic, but guess what? That doesn't apply outside of Greyhawk anymore (as there is no Spire or Outlands in the Forgotten Realms or in Eberron; both use their own cosmology). Even in the case of Greyhawk, that's closer to an antimagic field in terms of what it does. Other planes with unusual magic traits will govern any other degradation you could consider, by the way, but there's no overall rule. (In fact, I suspect that this old effect was rolled into the magic trait of the planes in this edition.)

My big question: Why would your DM want to bring in bad rules from earlier editions? "For flavor"? Oh, please, tell him to at least call it what it is (nostalgia), since it serves no real purpose except him screwing over his buddies the way it screwed him over in the past. Next thing you know he'll be reimplementing THAC0.
WinterPsionic
04-16-07, 05:35 PM Next thing you know he'll be reimplementing THAC0.

....yah....that actually came up last week :P

The module included some random chance chamber and one outcome was a premenant decrease to THAC0, he said it and everyone had a puzzled expression on their face, I just laughed. Then he decided to make it a "to hit" penalty so everyone understood.

Guess I'll need to talk to him about it, I'm sure the Planar Shepard(a class I thought was rather interesting) wouldn't have this problem but he doesn't like Ebberon material and going accross all these planes and having most my armor negated is kind of a pain...
Tempest Stormwind
04-16-07, 05:46 PM Guess I'll need to talk to him about it, I'm sure the Planar Shepard(a class I thought was rather interesting) wouldn't have this problem but he doesn't like Ebberon material and going accross all these planes and having most my armor negated is kind of a pain...That's because the Planar Shepherd is so obviously crazy-broken-strong that even the worst of us on the CO board refuse to touch it. The only other things that have caused this reaction are the Thought Bottle (i.e. "Yeah, let's totally forget about XP costs, EVER") and Manipulate Form (as in, Pun-Pun).

It's so strong that there's no reason to not take it -- and it's a DRUID prestige class.

It is stronger than Druid 20 and takes no special optimization do be so.

Let that sink in for a moment.

If you haven't raped his game with that class yet, then he should consider himself fortunate and you should consider rereading the class. Both of you should be aware of exactly what it can do (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=709233). Maybe you can rebuild your character while there's still hope for the game.
WinterPsionic
04-16-07, 10:45 PM I don't play in a way where even that would break the game. Besides it would have to appear in a Non-Eberron WotC published book before he'd even think about it.

I'm sure he'll come up with something at least semi-balanced...

(What book was the thought bottle from again? When I first read it I thought I misread but after your comment I don't think I did...)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WinterPsionic 04-16-07, 12:24 PM	I seem to recall in 2e or 3.0 an item enhancement that stopped the degradation of an Items magic values as you hopped across the plains. Ex. A Ring of Prot +2 on the Prime is only a masterwork ring in the hells. Is this still around? Or is there a particular plane I can craft the items on to stop /minimize the degradation ?
WinDReiN 04-16-07, 12:26 PM	I don't think there is any degradation in 3.5Ed
WinterPsionic 04-16-07, 01:53 PM	Hmmm is there anything to support that? From a dynamic standpoint it doesn't seem like anything would have changed regarding those rules. If there is I guess I need to talk with my DM about it, he's using alot of 2e and 3.0 modules(mostly 3.0 I believe) so the effects are coming into play.
OamuTheMonk 04-16-07, 04:08 PM	Hmmm is there anything to support that? Supporting a negative? Like a quote from the 3.5 DMG saying "Magic items do not intrinsically change, from plane to plane. Seriously. They stay the same." 3.5 has no rules for Magic Item degredation. Period. Some planar effects might suppress the functioning of a magic item (dead magic, impeded magic, etcetera), but those are rules specific to the plane, not to the overall cosmology.
draconic_swine 04-16-07, 04:54 PM	Yup, definitely doesn't exist in 3.5. Although I'm not sure, I doubt it existed in 3.0 either, since this seems like it would be a really big change for a revision. I'd suggest poring through all of your 2e books (or finding a board dedicated to 2e).
Tempest Stormwind 04-16-07, 05:15 PM	Read through the Manual of the Planes and the Planescape Junkie's Handbook (er, Planar Handbook) and you will find no mention of item degradation. Given how one was 3e and the other 3.5, it's clear degradation doesn't happen in this edition. It's just another piece of garbage that was thrown out when D&D abandoned the shared-cosmology approach by default (you'll also note that the core books NEVER refer to it as the Prime or the Planes or anything of the sort so important; it's just a plane). This is very much like the fact that Drow items don't decay in sunlight, despite what RA Salvatore might spew out -- this is intentional. (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/drowitemsdontdecay.html) The same reasoning should apply here to planar degradation, for exactly the same reasons. (Note the source: That's Sean K. Reynolds, one of the designers of this edition and an additional designer on the Manual of the Planes.) The closest you'll get is the Spire in the Outlands cancelling magic, but guess what? That doesn't apply outside of Greyhawk anymore (as there is no Spire or Outlands in the Forgotten Realms or in Eberron; both use their own cosmology). Even in the case of Greyhawk, that's closer to an antimagic field in terms of what it does. Other planes with unusual magic traits will govern any other degradation you could consider, by the way, but there's no overall rule. (In fact, I suspect that this old effect was rolled into the magic trait of the planes in this edition.) My big question: Why would your DM want to bring in bad rules from earlier editions? "For flavor"? Oh, please, tell him to at least call it what it is (nostalgia), since it serves no real purpose except him screwing over his buddies the way it screwed him over in the past. Next thing you know he'll be reimplementing THAC0.
WinterPsionic 04-16-07, 05:35 PM	Next thing you know he'll be reimplementing THAC0. ....yah....that actually came up last week :P The module included some random chance chamber and one outcome was a premenant decrease to THAC0, he said it and everyone had a puzzled expression on their face, I just laughed. Then he decided to make it a "to hit" penalty so everyone understood. Guess I'll need to talk to him about it, I'm sure the Planar Shepard(a class I thought was rather interesting) wouldn't have this problem but he doesn't like Ebberon material and going accross all these planes and having most my armor negated is kind of a pain...
Tempest Stormwind 04-16-07, 05:46 PM	Guess I'll need to talk to him about it, I'm sure the Planar Shepard(a class I thought was rather interesting) wouldn't have this problem but he doesn't like Ebberon material and going accross all these planes and having most my armor negated is kind of a pain...That's because the Planar Shepherd is so obviously crazy-broken-strong that even the worst of us on the CO board refuse to touch it. The only other things that have caused this reaction are the Thought Bottle (i.e. "Yeah, let's totally forget about XP costs, EVER") and Manipulate Form (as in, Pun-Pun). It's so strong that there's no reason to not take it -- and it's a DRUID prestige class. It is stronger than Druid 20 and takes no special optimization do be so. Let that sink in for a moment. If you haven't raped his game with that class yet, then he should consider himself fortunate and you should consider rereading the class. Both of you should be aware of exactly what it can do (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=709233). Maybe you can rebuild your character while there's still hope for the game.
WinterPsionic 04-16-07, 10:45 PM	I don't play in a way where even that would break the game. Besides it would have to appear in a Non-Eberron WotC published book before he'd even think about it. I'm sure he'll come up with something at least semi-balanced... (What book was the thought bottle from again? When I first read it I thought I misread but after your comment I don't think I did...)