Animal slots [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animal slots [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tony111
03-24-05, 07:28 PM Where can I find information on which item slots (if any) my animal companions possessses?

Where can I find information on which item slots (if any) I possess if I wildshape into an animal?

-Tony
ashcat_lt
03-24-05, 08:07 PM there are ongoing debates on the whole wildshape magic item thing. Up until 3.5 (including 1e and 2e), any time you polymorphed or wildshaped all of your equipment merged into your form and became useless. 3.5 has changed all that. The closest thing I've been able to find to a list of "animal slots" is in the draconomicon page 24, where it talks about dragons and magic items. Most dragons are built like most four-legged animals, except for the wings and the fact that they almost have fingers. The gist of this whole thing has led me to believe that an animal possesses all the same body slots of a humanoid creature with only a few exceptions. Most magic items, with the notable exception of armor and weapons, resize to fit whoever puts them on. Most animals don't have fingers, and thus can't wear rings (unless they have a Hand of Glory around their neck). Apes would be one obvious exception to this. Some DM's might even allow you to put humanoid armor on an ape as well. Without fingers or thumbs, anything that must be manipulated or held in hand to be used is out of bounds. Weapons (without the opposable quality), wands, staves, potions, scrolls, etc... are useless. Some of the rods provide their benefits to their posessor, and thus could concievably be carried by an animal without having to be manipulated.

Keep in mind that the animal type covers quite a lot of ground and there are some common sense restrictions you should look out for. I would never allow a bird to wear bracers for instance. Sharks and snakes are just about screwed when it comes to magic items, unless you can convince your DM that you wear a pair of bracers and two rings along your serpentine body.

The issue of armor is not a big one for natural animals, as you could simply have some barding made for them. Make it masterwork and enchant it as you would humanoid armor. This doesn't work for wildshaping unless you've got a good friend (and the time) to put the armor on you after you alter your form.

Draconomicon has some magic items which are specific to dragons like magic metallic teeth and claws. I can't see any reason you couldn't get your local master smith to build something similar to fit whatever animal you would want to stick it on. Again, this works for your companion, but not for your druid.

I think I've covered most of what your question entails. I guarantee that people are going to come argue, especially when it comes to the wildshaping question, but I have recently done some research on this issue myself, and I think the RAW is on my side.
theplaidknight
03-24-05, 08:27 PM I can't think of where such information would be, but it seems quite logical to me that unless you morphed into an animal that's drastically different in form than a humanoid (like, say, a shark or an octopus) that you would retain all of your equipment slots. I do seem to recall that one can choose to let items meld into one's new form or keep them on the outside. Why wouldn't an animal's body keep all the same equipment slots as a humanoid has?
theplaidknight
03-24-05, 08:31 PM And I was beaten to the punch. Now that I think of it Complete Adventurer details rules for a magic armour property that allows one to keep it on and morphed along with you when you wild shape. That might alleviate one concern you have.
Tony111
03-25-05, 03:29 PM But there is no specific place where this vital question is answered in the RAW? So we are forced to extrapolate via the draconomicon? That is a little silly.

Where does it say that magic items resize to fit their wearers (besides armor and weapons). I found a part in the DMG where it says that items resize for fatter or skinnier adventureres and seems to suggest that humans and gnomes should both be able to wear the same ring of protection without a problem. But where does it say that the same ring or cloak will resize for my ape or lion companion.

One more note: Since I can wildshape ahead of time, and it lasts forever, I can remove all my items, wildshape, then put all my items back on, if I could only find some ruling on whether I actually have the slots. So the problem is strickly limited to whether I have the slots (not whether my items meld) regarding both myself and my animal companion.

-Tony
Tony Vargas
03-25-05, 04:38 PM How 'bout this related question. There have been magical horseshoes in the game before. What if your druid wildshapes into a horse? He can obviously use them, right? But what are the consequences of having something nailed to your feet when you change back? Do they 'merge' non-functionally with your human form?
theplaidknight
03-25-05, 05:03 PM Have a look at the latest DMG errata. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post it here or not, but it includes a ruling about these questions for the polymorph spell that seems straightforward enough. Wild Shape works just like a polymorph spell, after all. As for size of magit items, there's a bit about it on page 213 of the DMG again, speaking about magic clothing and jewelry which suggests that it truly does not matter the size or shape of the wearer. Think of the One Ring. Magic items that are worn (except armour) work like that.

P.S. It seems very logical to assume the same is true in the reverse direction as well, so the horseshoes would indeed merge non-functionally with the druid's form.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tony111 03-24-05, 07:28 PM	Where can I find information on which item slots (if any) my animal companions possessses? Where can I find information on which item slots (if any) I possess if I wildshape into an animal? -Tony
ashcat_lt 03-24-05, 08:07 PM	there are ongoing debates on the whole wildshape magic item thing. Up until 3.5 (including 1e and 2e), any time you polymorphed or wildshaped all of your equipment merged into your form and became useless. 3.5 has changed all that. The closest thing I've been able to find to a list of "animal slots" is in the draconomicon page 24, where it talks about dragons and magic items. Most dragons are built like most four-legged animals, except for the wings and the fact that they almost have fingers. The gist of this whole thing has led me to believe that an animal possesses all the same body slots of a humanoid creature with only a few exceptions. Most magic items, with the notable exception of armor and weapons, resize to fit whoever puts them on. Most animals don't have fingers, and thus can't wear rings (unless they have a Hand of Glory around their neck). Apes would be one obvious exception to this. Some DM's might even allow you to put humanoid armor on an ape as well. Without fingers or thumbs, anything that must be manipulated or held in hand to be used is out of bounds. Weapons (without the opposable quality), wands, staves, potions, scrolls, etc... are useless. Some of the rods provide their benefits to their posessor, and thus could concievably be carried by an animal without having to be manipulated. Keep in mind that the animal type covers quite a lot of ground and there are some common sense restrictions you should look out for. I would never allow a bird to wear bracers for instance. Sharks and snakes are just about screwed when it comes to magic items, unless you can convince your DM that you wear a pair of bracers and two rings along your serpentine body. The issue of armor is not a big one for natural animals, as you could simply have some barding made for them. Make it masterwork and enchant it as you would humanoid armor. This doesn't work for wildshaping unless you've got a good friend (and the time) to put the armor on you after you alter your form. Draconomicon has some magic items which are specific to dragons like magic metallic teeth and claws. I can't see any reason you couldn't get your local master smith to build something similar to fit whatever animal you would want to stick it on. Again, this works for your companion, but not for your druid. I think I've covered most of what your question entails. I guarantee that people are going to come argue, especially when it comes to the wildshaping question, but I have recently done some research on this issue myself, and I think the RAW is on my side.
theplaidknight 03-24-05, 08:27 PM	I can't think of where such information would be, but it seems quite logical to me that unless you morphed into an animal that's drastically different in form than a humanoid (like, say, a shark or an octopus) that you would retain all of your equipment slots. I do seem to recall that one can choose to let items meld into one's new form or keep them on the outside. Why wouldn't an animal's body keep all the same equipment slots as a humanoid has?
theplaidknight 03-24-05, 08:31 PM	And I was beaten to the punch. Now that I think of it Complete Adventurer details rules for a magic armour property that allows one to keep it on and morphed along with you when you wild shape. That might alleviate one concern you have.
Tony111 03-25-05, 03:29 PM	But there is no specific place where this vital question is answered in the RAW? So we are forced to extrapolate via the draconomicon? That is a little silly. Where does it say that magic items resize to fit their wearers (besides armor and weapons). I found a part in the DMG where it says that items resize for fatter or skinnier adventureres and seems to suggest that humans and gnomes should both be able to wear the same ring of protection without a problem. But where does it say that the same ring or cloak will resize for my ape or lion companion. One more note: Since I can wildshape ahead of time, and it lasts forever, I can remove all my items, wildshape, then put all my items back on, if I could only find some ruling on whether I actually have the slots. So the problem is strickly limited to whether I have the slots (not whether my items meld) regarding both myself and my animal companion. -Tony
Tony Vargas 03-25-05, 04:38 PM	How 'bout this related question. There have been magical horseshoes in the game before. What if your druid wildshapes into a horse? He can obviously use them, right? But what are the consequences of having something nailed to your feet when you change back? Do they 'merge' non-functionally with your human form?
theplaidknight 03-25-05, 05:03 PM	Have a look at the latest DMG errata. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post it here or not, but it includes a ruling about these questions for the polymorph spell that seems straightforward enough. Wild Shape works just like a polymorph spell, after all. As for size of magit items, there's a bit about it on page 213 of the DMG again, speaking about magic clothing and jewelry which suggests that it truly does not matter the size or shape of the wearer. Think of the One Ring. Magic items that are worn (except armour) work like that. P.S. It seems very logical to assume the same is true in the reverse direction as well, so the horseshoes would indeed merge non-functionally with the druid's form.