Animals and armor proficiency? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animals and armor proficiency? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FrostHammer
02-19-07, 05:30 PM How do I knowif my Animal Companion knows how to use any barding I get for it? Will my riding dog or wolf be able to act normally while wearing a chain shirt barding? What about my t-rex?
3DJutsu
02-19-07, 05:37 PM Barding is only for mounts...
FrostHammer
02-19-07, 05:41 PM Ok, how about just armor then? I pay double for armor for non-humanoids, but the cost isn't a big deal.
celestialkin
02-19-07, 05:42 PM That is a very good question. Thanks for posting it. I would like to know the same for the three animals in one of my campaigns.
Kradlo
02-19-07, 05:47 PM Barding is armor for horses, historically (since real people didn't ride dogs). In D&D, it's used for any mount.

Though it doesn't specify it, there's no indication that mounts (or any other quadruped) is penalized for the armor, other than normal armor check penalties (i.e., no nonproficiency penalty).

So, I'd say go ahead and outfit your war dog with armor. Just double check with your GM, but he should give it the green light.
3DJutsu
02-19-07, 05:49 PM Barding is armor for horses, historically (since real people didn't ride dogs). In D&D, it's used for any mount.

Though it doesn't specify it, there's no indication that mounts (or any other quadruped) is penalized for the armor, other than normal armor check penalties (i.e., no nonproficiency penalty).

So, I'd say go ahead and outfit your war dog with armor. Just double check with your GM, but he should give it the green light.

Stats for Riding Dog barding are in the PHB, and he's also wanting to know if his T-rex can have some.

Also would Centaur get armour or barding?
FrostHammer
02-19-07, 06:23 PM Hmm...good question. Wel, a Centaur is a large nonhumanoid...so Centaur armor would cost 4 times as much base cost. Ouch.
risner
02-19-07, 08:40 PM How do I knowif my Animal Companion knows how to use any barding I get for it? Will my riding dog or wolf be able to act normally while wearing a chain shirt barding? What about my t-rex?

FAQ has a comment on this.
The creature would not be proficient and would by the rules need to apply non proficiency penalties to any armour you make it wear.

Mounts are often exempted from this rule, but it is no where written that they are exempt. It is more like silently ignored for mounts.
GorgeHadozee
02-19-07, 08:58 PM I encountered this problem as well, my initial solution was to change one of the feats the creature has to light armor proficiency. If you have the PHII, the retraining rules are a good path to follow on that.

Then I got to looking around and decided that the War Beast template was a better way to go. So, I took the base horse, light or heavy and then added the War Beast template to them and those are the horses you get when you buy a war horse. I also apply it to other animals that have been trained for war, dogs being a prime example.

"Its not what you do, its how you look doing it"
FrostHammer
02-19-07, 09:02 PM Also, as my Companion gains HD, it also gains feats every 3 HD, so I can just give it light armor proficiency when I can, and then I can give it a nice Mithril Breastplate.
runestar
02-19-07, 10:51 PM Or you can give it masterwork studded leather or mithril chainshirt barding. No ACP means no penalties even if you are not proficient.:)

Centaurs wear barding, as per races of faerun.
FrostHammer
02-20-07, 12:03 AM Nice. Barding can be enchanted as well right?
runestar
02-20-07, 12:05 AM Like all armour.:)
celestialkin
02-20-07, 12:19 AM Like all armour.:)

But can it be enchanted after it's been made and used for a while?
runestar
02-20-07, 12:54 AM Why not?
celestialkin
02-20-07, 01:09 AM Why not?

Me? I thought it was like masterworking an item (you can only do it when it is created).
runestar
02-20-07, 02:53 AM Mithril armour is automatically masterwork...:)
Thomas_Covenant
02-20-07, 03:42 AM Me? I thought it was like masterworking an item (you can only do it when it is created).Uhm......no?

An item is masterwork, or it is not.
You make this decision when you begin making it, and can not "upgrade" to masterwork later, you start from scratch.

Any masterwork item can be enchanted, whenever you have the prereqs, whether the item is seconds old, or centuries.

....I know 1st AD&D had the requirements you think exist, 2nd may well have, 2nd mostly copied 1st and made random, poorly explained changes, so it wouldn't surprise me....
Limousine_Liberal
02-20-07, 03:58 AM FAQ has a comment on this.
The creature would not be proficient and would by the rules need to apply non proficiency penalties to any armour you make it wear.

Mounts are often exempted from this rule, but it is no where written that they are exempt. It is more like silently ignored for mounts.

Sage Advice this month (in Dragon 352) said that many DMs choose to ignore the penalties for animals trained for combat, rather than for all mounts. In fact, I can confirm that most DMs in my experience ignore it for all mounts and animals of all sorts.

As for T-Rex barding...while you might have to pay a bit more to get it specially crafted (and for the hazard pay of the armorsmith who has to measure the beast), I don't see a problem with it.
celestialkin
02-20-07, 04:09 AM Any masterwork item can be enchanted, whenever you have the prereqs, whether the item is seconds old, or centuries.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I knew that you needed to decide if an item will be masterworked when you make it, I just wasn't sure if enchantments worked the same way.
mvincent
02-20-07, 02:00 PM Evidently the MMII has "Warbeast" template that includes armor proficiency. I believe that warhorses and riding dogs are already considered to have this template (see this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10073241)).

Can anyone read this template in the MMII and verify if it has actual rules regarding warhorses or riding dogs wearing armor?

The recent Sage advice answer states that even though the rules don't explicitely state that war trained animals are proficient with armor, most DM's rule that way. I'm unsure if the Sage was aware of any related text from MMII though.
Vegepygmy
02-20-07, 02:14 PM The recent Sage advice answer states that even though the rules don't explicitely state that war trained animals are proficient with armor, most DM's rule that way.They do state it (MM, page 306, under animal traits): "Proficient with no armor unless trained for war."

I suppose you could read that as "unless trained for war...and even then, maybe not." But c'mon.
mvincent
02-20-07, 02:19 PM They do state it (MM, page 306, under animal traits): "Proficient with no armor unless trained for war."Yup. I don't agree with that Sage advice answer. He probably could have done a bit more research (or merely asked us). Anyone want to write in to possibly have this one corrected for the FAQ?
risner
02-20-07, 02:25 PM Can anyone read this template in the MMII and verify if it has actual rules regarding warhorses or riding dogs wearing armor?

"A trained warbeast is proficient with light, medium, and heavy armor."

Remember MMII is 3.0 tho.

But it does say animals with "war" in their name are already considered to have the warbeast template added.
savant_warlord13
02-20-07, 04:27 PM Hmm...good question. Wel, a Centaur is a large nonhumanoid...so Centaur armor would cost 4 times as much base cost. Ouch.

Enhancement cost is not quadrupled
runestar
02-20-07, 09:59 PM Enhancement cost is not quadrupled
Nor is the cost for making armour masterwork.
All in all, the cost of quadrupling the cost of the base armour will account for only a very small portion of the final cost of the magical armour.:)
Toki_Wartooth
02-21-07, 11:44 AM Nor is the cost for making armour masterwork.
All in all, the cost of quadrupling the cost of the base armour will account for only a very small portion of the final cost of the magical armour.:)Unless you're using special materials.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 02-19-07, 05:30 PM	How do I knowif my Animal Companion knows how to use any barding I get for it? Will my riding dog or wolf be able to act normally while wearing a chain shirt barding? What about my t-rex?
3DJutsu 02-19-07, 05:37 PM	Barding is only for mounts...
FrostHammer 02-19-07, 05:41 PM	Ok, how about just armor then? I pay double for armor for non-humanoids, but the cost isn't a big deal.
celestialkin 02-19-07, 05:42 PM	That is a very good question. Thanks for posting it. I would like to know the same for the three animals in one of my campaigns.
Kradlo 02-19-07, 05:47 PM	Barding is armor for horses, historically (since real people didn't ride dogs). In D&D, it's used for any mount. Though it doesn't specify it, there's no indication that mounts (or any other quadruped) is penalized for the armor, other than normal armor check penalties (i.e., no nonproficiency penalty). So, I'd say go ahead and outfit your war dog with armor. Just double check with your GM, but he should give it the green light.
3DJutsu 02-19-07, 05:49 PM	Barding is armor for horses, historically (since real people didn't ride dogs). In D&D, it's used for any mount. Though it doesn't specify it, there's no indication that mounts (or any other quadruped) is penalized for the armor, other than normal armor check penalties (i.e., no nonproficiency penalty). So, I'd say go ahead and outfit your war dog with armor. Just double check with your GM, but he should give it the green light. Stats for Riding Dog barding are in the PHB, and he's also wanting to know if his T-rex can have some. Also would Centaur get armour or barding?
FrostHammer 02-19-07, 06:23 PM	Hmm...good question. Wel, a Centaur is a large nonhumanoid...so Centaur armor would cost 4 times as much base cost. Ouch.
risner 02-19-07, 08:40 PM	How do I knowif my Animal Companion knows how to use any barding I get for it? Will my riding dog or wolf be able to act normally while wearing a chain shirt barding? What about my t-rex? FAQ has a comment on this. The creature would not be proficient and would by the rules need to apply non proficiency penalties to any armour you make it wear. Mounts are often exempted from this rule, but it is no where written that they are exempt. It is more like silently ignored for mounts.
GorgeHadozee 02-19-07, 08:58 PM	I encountered this problem as well, my initial solution was to change one of the feats the creature has to light armor proficiency. If you have the PHII, the retraining rules are a good path to follow on that. Then I got to looking around and decided that the War Beast template was a better way to go. So, I took the base horse, light or heavy and then added the War Beast template to them and those are the horses you get when you buy a war horse. I also apply it to other animals that have been trained for war, dogs being a prime example. "Its not what you do, its how you look doing it"
FrostHammer 02-19-07, 09:02 PM	Also, as my Companion gains HD, it also gains feats every 3 HD, so I can just give it light armor proficiency when I can, and then I can give it a nice Mithril Breastplate.
runestar 02-19-07, 10:51 PM	Or you can give it masterwork studded leather or mithril chainshirt barding. No ACP means no penalties even if you are not proficient.:) Centaurs wear barding, as per races of faerun.
FrostHammer 02-20-07, 12:03 AM	Nice. Barding can be enchanted as well right?
runestar 02-20-07, 12:05 AM	Like all armour.:)
celestialkin 02-20-07, 12:19 AM	Like all armour.:) But can it be enchanted after it's been made and used for a while?
runestar 02-20-07, 12:54 AM	Why not?
celestialkin 02-20-07, 01:09 AM	Why not? Me? I thought it was like masterworking an item (you can only do it when it is created).
runestar 02-20-07, 02:53 AM	Mithril armour is automatically masterwork...:)
Thomas_Covenant 02-20-07, 03:42 AM	Me? I thought it was like masterworking an item (you can only do it when it is created).Uhm......no? An item is masterwork, or it is not. You make this decision when you begin making it, and can not "upgrade" to masterwork later, you start from scratch. Any masterwork item can be enchanted, whenever you have the prereqs, whether the item is seconds old, or centuries. ....I know 1st AD&D had the requirements you think exist, 2nd may well have, 2nd mostly copied 1st and made random, poorly explained changes, so it wouldn't surprise me....
Limousine_Liberal 02-20-07, 03:58 AM	FAQ has a comment on this. The creature would not be proficient and would by the rules need to apply non proficiency penalties to any armour you make it wear. Mounts are often exempted from this rule, but it is no where written that they are exempt. It is more like silently ignored for mounts. Sage Advice this month (in Dragon 352) said that many DMs choose to ignore the penalties for animals trained for combat, rather than for all mounts. In fact, I can confirm that most DMs in my experience ignore it for all mounts and animals of all sorts. As for T-Rex barding...while you might have to pay a bit more to get it specially crafted (and for the hazard pay of the armorsmith who has to measure the beast), I don't see a problem with it.
celestialkin 02-20-07, 04:09 AM	Any masterwork item can be enchanted, whenever you have the prereqs, whether the item is seconds old, or centuries. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I knew that you needed to decide if an item will be masterworked when you make it, I just wasn't sure if enchantments worked the same way.
mvincent 02-20-07, 02:00 PM	Evidently the MMII has "Warbeast" template that includes armor proficiency. I believe that warhorses and riding dogs are already considered to have this template (see this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10073241)). Can anyone read this template in the MMII and verify if it has actual rules regarding warhorses or riding dogs wearing armor? The recent Sage advice answer states that even though the rules don't explicitely state that war trained animals are proficient with armor, most DM's rule that way. I'm unsure if the Sage was aware of any related text from MMII though.
Vegepygmy 02-20-07, 02:14 PM	The recent Sage advice answer states that even though the rules don't explicitely state that war trained animals are proficient with armor, most DM's rule that way.They do state it (MM, page 306, under animal traits): "Proficient with no armor unless trained for war." I suppose you could read that as "unless trained for war...and even then, maybe not." But c'mon.
mvincent 02-20-07, 02:19 PM	They do state it (MM, page 306, under animal traits): "Proficient with no armor unless trained for war."Yup. I don't agree with that Sage advice answer. He probably could have done a bit more research (or merely asked us). Anyone want to write in to possibly have this one corrected for the FAQ?
risner 02-20-07, 02:25 PM	Can anyone read this template in the MMII and verify if it has actual rules regarding warhorses or riding dogs wearing armor? "A trained warbeast is proficient with light, medium, and heavy armor." Remember MMII is 3.0 tho. But it does say animals with "war" in their name are already considered to have the warbeast template added.
savant_warlord13 02-20-07, 04:27 PM	Hmm...good question. Wel, a Centaur is a large nonhumanoid...so Centaur armor would cost 4 times as much base cost. Ouch. Enhancement cost is not quadrupled
runestar 02-20-07, 09:59 PM	Enhancement cost is not quadrupled Nor is the cost for making armour masterwork. All in all, the cost of quadrupling the cost of the base armour will account for only a very small portion of the final cost of the magical armour.:)
Toki_Wartooth 02-21-07, 11:44 AM	Nor is the cost for making armour masterwork. All in all, the cost of quadrupling the cost of the base armour will account for only a very small portion of the final cost of the magical armour.:)Unless you're using special materials.