Animated Shield and Ability Score Items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animated Shield and Ability Score Items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Erhnam1982
06-15-07, 02:22 PM I have two questions:

1) In the DMG it says that if you have an Animated Shield that you can use two hands while using the shield but you take all penalties associated with that shield (such as arcane spell failure, armor check, etc).

My question is can you attack with a 2h weapon or use a 2h bow while still using the shield and if so what, if any, penalties would there be for doing so. It seems a bit overpowered to be able to use a 2h sword and shield at the same time w/ no drawbacks.

2) My group just started playing and we only use the core books. We have quite a bit of gold and are looking to buy some magic items. The DMG only lists a few ability score items, such as Gauntlets of Ogre Power (+2 str). Is it ok to have any items (cloak/gloves/boots/rings/etc.) with any stat even though the DMG doesn't list it?

For example, would it be standard to have a +1 Ring of Strength or a +2 Cloak of Wisdom?

And also, the price for such items is the enhancement value squared, right?
Eerongal
06-15-07, 02:27 PM That's what animated shields do, and no you dont take penalties on attack rolls or anything. They let you use 2h/TWF with a shield. It's a pretty potent ability that almost nullifies the 1h sword and board way.

As far as moving what ability score goes where, i think there was some kind of standard with price about moving things away from their affinity, but i could be wrong about that. For example the 'affinity slot' for con is in an amulet (of health) so if you want to move that to, say, cloak. If i remember correctly, the cost is like 1.5X the normal cost. So a cloak of health would cost 1.5X the cost of an amulet of health of equal value. Remember that these bonuses do not stack with each other.

I could be wrong about that part, though. Can anyone else confirm or deny this about magic items?
tarkin
06-15-07, 02:33 PM You are correct about everything you said.

It should be noted there are two exceptions:

1. Rings are "appropriate" for any and all magical enchantments.

That is why they require a seperate feat "Forge Ring", available at a much higher caster level, instead of the standard Craft Wonderous Item.

2. Unslotted items also ignore the x1.5 appropriate penalty, but they instead have the x2 penalty for being unslotted.

As such, they are not cost effective.
Eerongal
06-15-07, 02:42 PM whoo~! Hooray for working off memory because of being too lazy to look it up~!
bondious
06-15-07, 02:42 PM 1) This was answered just fine by Eerongal, so we'll move on.

2) There is an item in the DMG of ability boosting items for each stat.

Gauntlets of Ogre Power (Str)
Belt of Giant Strength (Str)
Gloves of Dexterity (Dex)
Amulet of Health (Con)
Headband of Intelligence (Int)
Periapt of Wisdom (Wis)
Cloak of Charisma (Cha)

Now some of these items can be made using other slots without penalty. Strength, for instance, is already spread out for us with gauntlets and belts. Here is a list of the the body slots and their general functions/affiliations:

Headband, helmet (Mental improvement, ranged attacks)
Hat (Interaction)
Phylactery (Morale, alignment)
Eye lenses, goggles (Vision)
Cloak, cape, mantle (Transformation, protection)
Amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, scarab (Protection, discernment)
Robe (Multiple effects)
Shirt (Physical improvement)
Vest, vestment (Class ability improvement)
Bracers (Combat)
Bracelets (Allies)
Gloves (Quickness)
Gauntlets (Destructive power)
Belt (Physical improvement)
Boots (Movement)

Some of these slots are open to interpretation, and sometimes it'll come down to the DM's authority.

As for creating items that are not in the correct slot, such as the Cloak of Wisdom example above, you pay an extra x1.5 of the cost to make an item with an uncustomary space, and x2 for an item without an item slot, such as for an Ioun Stone.
Rolando007
06-15-07, 03:22 PM Just making sure I fully understand.

You can make like a +1 ring of any stat for just 1k gold?

Would it be reasonable for a DM to put those kind of things up for purchase in cities?
bondious
06-15-07, 03:44 PM Just making sure I fully understand.

You can make like a +1 ring of any stat for just 1k gold?

Would it be reasonable for a DM to put those kind of things up for purchase in cities?

By the rules as written (aka: RAW) and the formlua provided, then the answer would be "yes, you can make a +1 ability-boosting item (including a ring) for 1,000gp", and it would not be unreasonable if they were on sale in a city.

MANY PEOPLE, however, feel that the ability-boosting items should be even-numbered ones (+2, +4, +6), so that the bonus provided to any character is consistant. I'm on the fence on this topic, though lean towards the "even-numbered" camp.
Rolando007
06-15-07, 03:57 PM Makes a lot of sense. I think I'm leaning to the "even-numbered" camp as well. I don't want to give out items that help one person but don't help another. Thanks!
Knightblde
06-15-07, 04:41 PM The Magic Item Compendium, even though it is not 'core', has a wonderful page about the most basic of items (ability bonuses, AC bonus, Defelection, Resistance) and which slots they can be associated with at no extra cost. It also states that these abilities can be stacked with other abilities on the same item at no additional cost.

Example - Boots a Springing and Striding DMG 5,500 gp IIRC.
Dexterity modifers can be added to boots at normal price so +2 would be 4,000 gp for a total of 9,000 gp.

It seems over powerful at first, but like the designers explain, it allows you to have fun items along with ability modifers rather than taking up all the slots with the most basic, yet important, effects.

Happy Gaming!
risner
06-15-07, 05:52 PM 1) In the DMG it says that if you have an Animated Shield that you can use two hands while using the shield but you take all penalties associated with that shield (such as arcane spell failure, armor check, etc).

2) Is it ok to have any items (cloak/gloves/boots/rings/etc.) with any stat even though the DMG doesn't list it?For example, would it be standard to have a +1 Ring of Strength or a +2 Cloak of Wisdom?

3) And also, the price for such items is the enhancement value squared, right?

1) If you are not proficient with a Heavy Shield, then you would take attack penalties equal to the armour check penalty of the animated shield to all attacks and anything else that would be penalized. If you are proficient, then just ASP, etc.

2) If you make a Gauntlet of Wisdom, then charge 1.5x. If you make anything +X to stat outside of the DMG's list of items charge 1.5x. If you make rings (with Forge Ring), then all +X stat bonuses are fine for a ring, so no need for the 1.5x charge.

3) Yes, up to +6.

Just making sure I fully understand.

You can make like a +1 ring of any stat for just 1k gold?

Would it be reasonable for a DM to put those kind of things up for purchase in cities?

No, you can't make +X of any stat where X is an odd number.
Cariyaga
06-15-07, 11:08 PM You can't or you shouldn't? Citation, please.
runestar
06-15-07, 11:14 PM You can't or you shouldn't? Citation, please.
Both actually. You can't because such an item is not listed in the DMG or any other splatbook. You shouldn't because the authors stated that it would be extremely difficult to price such an item fairly (depending on whether your stat is even or odd, it will either have no effect or be as good as a +2 stat boosting item).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Erhnam1982 06-15-07, 02:22 PM	I have two questions: 1) In the DMG it says that if you have an Animated Shield that you can use two hands while using the shield but you take all penalties associated with that shield (such as arcane spell failure, armor check, etc). My question is can you attack with a 2h weapon or use a 2h bow while still using the shield and if so what, if any, penalties would there be for doing so. It seems a bit overpowered to be able to use a 2h sword and shield at the same time w/ no drawbacks. 2) My group just started playing and we only use the core books. We have quite a bit of gold and are looking to buy some magic items. The DMG only lists a few ability score items, such as Gauntlets of Ogre Power (+2 str). Is it ok to have any items (cloak/gloves/boots/rings/etc.) with any stat even though the DMG doesn't list it? For example, would it be standard to have a +1 Ring of Strength or a +2 Cloak of Wisdom? And also, the price for such items is the enhancement value squared, right?
Eerongal 06-15-07, 02:27 PM	That's what animated shields do, and no you dont take penalties on attack rolls or anything. They let you use 2h/TWF with a shield. It's a pretty potent ability that almost nullifies the 1h sword and board way. As far as moving what ability score goes where, i think there was some kind of standard with price about moving things away from their affinity, but i could be wrong about that. For example the 'affinity slot' for con is in an amulet (of health) so if you want to move that to, say, cloak. If i remember correctly, the cost is like 1.5X the normal cost. So a cloak of health would cost 1.5X the cost of an amulet of health of equal value. Remember that these bonuses do not stack with each other. I could be wrong about that part, though. Can anyone else confirm or deny this about magic items?
tarkin 06-15-07, 02:33 PM	You are correct about everything you said. It should be noted there are two exceptions: 1. Rings are "appropriate" for any and all magical enchantments. That is why they require a seperate feat "Forge Ring", available at a much higher caster level, instead of the standard Craft Wonderous Item. 2. Unslotted items also ignore the x1.5 appropriate penalty, but they instead have the x2 penalty for being unslotted. As such, they are not cost effective.
Eerongal 06-15-07, 02:42 PM	whoo~! Hooray for working off memory because of being too lazy to look it up~!
bondious 06-15-07, 02:42 PM	1) This was answered just fine by Eerongal, so we'll move on. 2) There is an item in the DMG of ability boosting items for each stat. Gauntlets of Ogre Power (Str) Belt of Giant Strength (Str) Gloves of Dexterity (Dex) Amulet of Health (Con) Headband of Intelligence (Int) Periapt of Wisdom (Wis) Cloak of Charisma (Cha) Now some of these items can be made using other slots without penalty. Strength, for instance, is already spread out for us with gauntlets and belts. Here is a list of the the body slots and their general functions/affiliations: Headband, helmet (Mental improvement, ranged attacks) Hat (Interaction) Phylactery (Morale, alignment) Eye lenses, goggles (Vision) Cloak, cape, mantle (Transformation, protection) Amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, scarab (Protection, discernment) Robe (Multiple effects) Shirt (Physical improvement) Vest, vestment (Class ability improvement) Bracers (Combat) Bracelets (Allies) Gloves (Quickness) Gauntlets (Destructive power) Belt (Physical improvement) Boots (Movement) Some of these slots are open to interpretation, and sometimes it'll come down to the DM's authority. As for creating items that are not in the correct slot, such as the Cloak of Wisdom example above, you pay an extra x1.5 of the cost to make an item with an uncustomary space, and x2 for an item without an item slot, such as for an Ioun Stone.
Rolando007 06-15-07, 03:22 PM	Just making sure I fully understand. You can make like a +1 ring of any stat for just 1k gold? Would it be reasonable for a DM to put those kind of things up for purchase in cities?
bondious 06-15-07, 03:44 PM	Just making sure I fully understand. You can make like a +1 ring of any stat for just 1k gold? Would it be reasonable for a DM to put those kind of things up for purchase in cities? By the rules as written (aka: RAW) and the formlua provided, then the answer would be "yes, you can make a +1 ability-boosting item (including a ring) for 1,000gp", and it would not be unreasonable if they were on sale in a city. MANY PEOPLE, however, feel that the ability-boosting items should be even-numbered ones (+2, +4, +6), so that the bonus provided to any character is consistant. I'm on the fence on this topic, though lean towards the "even-numbered" camp.
Rolando007 06-15-07, 03:57 PM	Makes a lot of sense. I think I'm leaning to the "even-numbered" camp as well. I don't want to give out items that help one person but don't help another. Thanks!
Knightblde 06-15-07, 04:41 PM	The Magic Item Compendium, even though it is not 'core', has a wonderful page about the most basic of items (ability bonuses, AC bonus, Defelection, Resistance) and which slots they can be associated with at no extra cost. It also states that these abilities can be stacked with other abilities on the same item at no additional cost. Example - Boots a Springing and Striding DMG 5,500 gp IIRC. Dexterity modifers can be added to boots at normal price so +2 would be 4,000 gp for a total of 9,000 gp. It seems over powerful at first, but like the designers explain, it allows you to have fun items along with ability modifers rather than taking up all the slots with the most basic, yet important, effects. Happy Gaming!
risner 06-15-07, 05:52 PM	1) In the DMG it says that if you have an Animated Shield that you can use two hands while using the shield but you take all penalties associated with that shield (such as arcane spell failure, armor check, etc). 2) Is it ok to have any items (cloak/gloves/boots/rings/etc.) with any stat even though the DMG doesn't list it?For example, would it be standard to have a +1 Ring of Strength or a +2 Cloak of Wisdom? 3) And also, the price for such items is the enhancement value squared, right? 1) If you are not proficient with a Heavy Shield, then you would take attack penalties equal to the armour check penalty of the animated shield to all attacks and anything else that would be penalized. If you are proficient, then just ASP, etc. 2) If you make a Gauntlet of Wisdom, then charge 1.5x. If you make anything +X to stat outside of the DMG's list of items charge 1.5x. If you make rings (with Forge Ring), then all +X stat bonuses are fine for a ring, so no need for the 1.5x charge. 3) Yes, up to +6. Just making sure I fully understand. You can make like a +1 ring of any stat for just 1k gold? Would it be reasonable for a DM to put those kind of things up for purchase in cities? No, you can't make +X of any stat where X is an odd number.
Cariyaga 06-15-07, 11:08 PM	You can't or you shouldn't? Citation, please.
runestar 06-15-07, 11:14 PM	You can't or you shouldn't? Citation, please. Both actually. You can't because such an item is not listed in the DMG or any other splatbook. You shouldn't because the authors stated that it would be extremely difficult to price such an item fairly (depending on whether your stat is even or odd, it will either have no effect or be as good as a +2 stat boosting item).