Animated Shield and Ring of Invisibility [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animated Shield and Ring of Invisibility [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
madbob14
09-14-06, 04:52 PM Will a ring of invisibility also make your animated shield disappear?? Since it is following you i kinda doubt it?
tarkin
09-14-06, 04:57 PM Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible.

As long as the shield is in your hand, it is invisible. The second it leaves you hand, it becomes visible.
madbob14
09-14-06, 05:01 PM hmmm.....is there any way for me to possibly get around this? i use a two hander and have an animated shield and obviously a ring of invisibility. =/
Tony Vargas
09-14-06, 08:03 PM Two possible ways I can think of:

You can argue that the Invisibility spell actually says: "Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible" - and, the Animated Shield hasn't been 'dropped' or 'put down,' honest. This will get you into arguments about whether Animated Shields and Ioun Stones are 'attended objects' or not.

Or, you can get Invisibility and Permanency cast on your Animated Shield. More expensive, but less contentious.
jaelis
09-14-06, 11:38 PM If it's not counted as being carried for the purpose of invisiblity, does that mean it is also subject to spells and weapon damage like an unattended object? Because that is pretty extreme... the shield would have to make a save against all area spells, and breaking it would be really easy. Heck, couldn't an enemy just pick it up and take it?

I don't know, I'm no fan of animated shields, but it seems to me that if you don't like them, you should just ban them, not impose a crippling weakness.
Tsuul
09-15-06, 01:00 AM Does animated shield use your BAB for sunder resists? How do the disarm rules fall into line, if at all?
Seerow
09-15-06, 01:10 AM Or, you can get Invisibility and Permanency cast on your Animated Shield. More expensive, but less contentious.

I dunno, I can just imagine the field day most DMs will have with that one. "You wake up, roll out of bed, you were drunk last night and don't remember where you set your shield. Make a search check to see if you can find it"
Nezkrul
09-15-06, 11:36 AM that reminds of a 2e adventure I played through. My rogue found a room that had a continual darkness spell in it, but when I walked in and searched the walls I tripped over a box... I dragged it out of the dark room after a while of fumbling around (and the room was spinning which also gave me a headache trying to find the door) I pulled the chest out... wait what chest? I feel it, its here but, invisible? Opened it up and theres loot in it, close it and I couldnt see it... pretty cool novelty item imo :D
mvincent
09-15-06, 01:24 PM As long as the shield is in your hand, it is invisible. The second it leaves you hand, it becomes visible.I do not believe that is a truism, otherwise ioun stones would remain visible while you were invisible. I believe an animated shield is normally treated as in your possession (like a regular shield) for all purposes, including for things like sundering, spell effects (yours and opponent's), saving throws, etc.

Treating it otherwise makes sense, but it can get complicated, and it seems against D&D precedence.
Alvoros Darkleaf
09-15-06, 04:30 PM Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible.

As long as the shield is in your hand, it is invisible. The second it leaves you hand, it becomes visible.

While that seems to make sense in some way, since you take penalties associated with shield use such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, and nonproficiency, you could argue you ARE holding the shield...just through the magic of the "animated" ability. Therefore, the shield remains invisible.

Alvo

Hidden Alterior Motive....I have a duskblade with an animated shield that uses Swift Invisibility once and a while....so I need the discussion to swing in my direction!
mvincent
09-15-06, 04:48 PM From research, the rules and precendent seem to support the shield being invisible.
From the spell description:
"If the recipient is a creature carrying gear, that vanishes, too." I believe that an animated shield is considered carrying (for saving throws, etc.)
"Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible" an animated shield wielder isn't actually dropping or putting the shield down.

From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040914a) regarding invisibility:
"A magical invisibility effect extends to the user and to all the user's gear. Your gear includes everything you wear or carry at the time you receive the invisibility effect; if something sticks out more than 10 feet from you, the portion that extends more than 10 feet is visible. If you put down or drop something, that thing becomes visible if it normally is visible." an animated shield seems to meet these requisites.

It just seems like the intent of the shield is for it to be counted as gear normally (just essentially giving you an extra hand). If I were playing say, a D&D computer game, I would almost certainly expect the shield to go invisible with me.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
madbob14 09-14-06, 04:52 PM	Will a ring of invisibility also make your animated shield disappear?? Since it is following you i kinda doubt it?
tarkin 09-14-06, 04:57 PM	Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible. As long as the shield is in your hand, it is invisible. The second it leaves you hand, it becomes visible.
madbob14 09-14-06, 05:01 PM	hmmm.....is there any way for me to possibly get around this? i use a two hander and have an animated shield and obviously a ring of invisibility. =/
Tony Vargas 09-14-06, 08:03 PM	Two possible ways I can think of: You can argue that the Invisibility spell actually says: "Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible" - and, the Animated Shield hasn't been 'dropped' or 'put down,' honest. This will get you into arguments about whether Animated Shields and Ioun Stones are 'attended objects' or not. Or, you can get Invisibility and Permanency cast on your Animated Shield. More expensive, but less contentious.
jaelis 09-14-06, 11:38 PM	If it's not counted as being carried for the purpose of invisiblity, does that mean it is also subject to spells and weapon damage like an unattended object? Because that is pretty extreme... the shield would have to make a save against all area spells, and breaking it would be really easy. Heck, couldn't an enemy just pick it up and take it? I don't know, I'm no fan of animated shields, but it seems to me that if you don't like them, you should just ban them, not impose a crippling weakness.
Tsuul 09-15-06, 01:00 AM	Does animated shield use your BAB for sunder resists? How do the disarm rules fall into line, if at all?
Seerow 09-15-06, 01:10 AM	Or, you can get Invisibility and Permanency cast on your Animated Shield. More expensive, but less contentious. I dunno, I can just imagine the field day most DMs will have with that one. "You wake up, roll out of bed, you were drunk last night and don't remember where you set your shield. Make a search check to see if you can find it"
Nezkrul 09-15-06, 11:36 AM	that reminds of a 2e adventure I played through. My rogue found a room that had a continual darkness spell in it, but when I walked in and searched the walls I tripped over a box... I dragged it out of the dark room after a while of fumbling around (and the room was spinning which also gave me a headache trying to find the door) I pulled the chest out... wait what chest? I feel it, its here but, invisible? Opened it up and theres loot in it, close it and I couldnt see it... pretty cool novelty item imo :D
mvincent 09-15-06, 01:24 PM	As long as the shield is in your hand, it is invisible. The second it leaves you hand, it becomes visible.I do not believe that is a truism, otherwise ioun stones would remain visible while you were invisible. I believe an animated shield is normally treated as in your possession (like a regular shield) for all purposes, including for things like sundering, spell effects (yours and opponent's), saving throws, etc. Treating it otherwise makes sense, but it can get complicated, and it seems against D&D precedence.
Alvoros Darkleaf 09-15-06, 04:30 PM	Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible. As long as the shield is in your hand, it is invisible. The second it leaves you hand, it becomes visible. While that seems to make sense in some way, since you take penalties associated with shield use such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, and nonproficiency, you could argue you ARE holding the shield...just through the magic of the "animated" ability. Therefore, the shield remains invisible. Alvo Hidden Alterior Motive....I have a duskblade with an animated shield that uses Swift Invisibility once and a while....so I need the discussion to swing in my direction!
mvincent 09-15-06, 04:48 PM	From research, the rules and precendent seem to support the shield being invisible. From the spell description: "If the recipient is a creature carrying gear, that vanishes, too." I believe that an animated shield is considered carrying (for saving throws, etc.) "Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible" an animated shield wielder isn't actually dropping or putting the shield down. From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040914a) regarding invisibility: "A magical invisibility effect extends to the user and to all the user's gear. Your gear includes everything you wear or carry at the time you receive the invisibility effect; if something sticks out more than 10 feet from you, the portion that extends more than 10 feet is visible. If you put down or drop something, that thing becomes visible if it normally is visible." an animated shield seems to meet these requisites. It just seems like the intent of the shield is for it to be counted as gear normally (just essentially giving you an extra hand). If I were playing say, a D&D computer game, I would almost certainly expect the shield to go invisible with me.