Animated Shields and Shield Bashing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animated Shields and Shield Bashing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Morotis
01-15-06, 08:40 PM Can an Animated Shield be used for Bashing attempts? And if you have an Animated shield floating around you, can you wear a regular shield at the same time, and if so, could both be used for shield bashing? The books don't seem to cover anything even like this, so your imput is highly appreciated.
Dragonteuthis
01-15-06, 08:45 PM None of your questions are even remotely answered in the rules.

Therefore, I advise you to ask your DM. In this situation, he becomes the final authority. So to speak.
Zathyr
01-15-06, 11:49 PM If you want what I think are reasonable rules to work with:

I would probably houserule that
a) you couldn't normally bash with a shield unless it is strapped to your arm
b) an animated shield also enchanted as a dancing weapon could make bash attacks on its own for up to 4 rounds following the normal rules for a dancing weapon (and for shield bashes), and could return to floating purely for defense for 4 rounds
c) the description of the "animated" property suggests to me that feats that augment shield use (such as Improved Shield Bash) will still work normally if they come into play

As for using two shields, the rules do sort of cover that - the rules for magic items on the body make no mention of shields, strongly implying that you can in fact use two if you really wanted. Of course, you will only get one shield bonus to AC.
tarkin
01-16-06, 11:49 AM Animated does not make the shield intelligent. It can't for example rescue children, pick up dropped items, etc. Nor does it give the weapon your BAB, or proficiency.

Animated, being an armor property should not be capable of doing anything except armor stuff.

To get offensive activites, you would need Dancing. Keep in mind that offensive capabilities cost more.

To attack, you generally want:

A mind to control it
Strength,
Proficiency
Skill (BAB)

Animated could be claimed to give it strength, but no way for proficiency or skill.

Basing might give it Proficiency.
Intelligent might give it a mind to control.
But it would take Dancing to get your BAB.

So an Animated, Intelligent, Bashing shield would attack with a 10 strength, proficency with weapon, but have a BAB of 0, not your BAB.
mvincent
01-16-06, 04:54 PM Can an Animated Shield be used for Bashing attempts? And if you have an Animated shield floating around you, can you wear a regular shield at the same time, and if so, could both be used for shield bashing?The rules say:
"protecting her as if she were using it herself but freeing up both her hands"

So yes, you could wield an additional shield in one of the free hands, but note that shield bonuses don't stack (of course).

As for bashing with it, that is subject to interpretation. It is usually easiest to view an animated shield as giving you an "extra arm", i.e. it is "as if she were using it herself" (which would allow bashing, assuming the wielder used an attack to do so). However, the same sentence also says it "protects" the wielder this way (which could certainly mean only protects, and thus no bashing).
theplaidknight
01-16-06, 07:46 PM As a DM I would never allow a shield with only the animated ability to make bash attacks. I'll put myself in the camp that feels that animated shields in general are pretty munchkin-tastic, and allowing such a thing ... makes my stomach twist a little. If you wanted to stack all those enchantments on a shield you'd probably be FAR better off creating a homunculus in the shape of a shield. Depending on your setting it'd probably cost less to create an adamantine, shield-shaped homunculus than it would to create an intelligent dancing, bashing, animated shield anyway. Plus, an intelligent shield would probably rather protect its wielder/master/cohort/whatever than try to attack.
mvincent
01-17-06, 10:57 AM I'll put myself in the camp that feels that animated shields in general are pretty munchkin-tastic, and allowing such a thing ... makes my stomach twist a little. Out of curiousity, why would you think that a wielder being able to bash with the shield (just as if he was wearing it) was unbalancing?

Of course, having it do it by itself (i.e. as an extra attack) would indeed be munchkiny (and an entirely unwarranted interpretation).
Tony Vargas
01-17-06, 07:40 PM Can an Animated Shield be used for Bashing attempts? No, but a light or heavy shield could be enchanted as a weapon, and given the Dancing ability. It'd be up to your DM whether it'd 'dance' and 'animate' at the same time (that is both Bash and grant you AC simultaneously).

And if you have an Animated shield floating around you, can you wear a regular shield at the same time, Yes. There's very little benefit in doing so, since both give shield bonuses, and shield bonuses don't stack. You could bash with the shield you're wearing, though.

The books don't seem to cover anything even like this, so your imput is highly appreciated. The idea of using two shields is a little odd, so I'm not surprised that it's not covered explicitly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Morotis 01-15-06, 08:40 PM	Can an Animated Shield be used for Bashing attempts? And if you have an Animated shield floating around you, can you wear a regular shield at the same time, and if so, could both be used for shield bashing? The books don't seem to cover anything even like this, so your imput is highly appreciated.
Dragonteuthis 01-15-06, 08:45 PM	None of your questions are even remotely answered in the rules. Therefore, I advise you to ask your DM. In this situation, he becomes the final authority. So to speak.
Zathyr 01-15-06, 11:49 PM	If you want what I think are reasonable rules to work with: I would probably houserule that a) you couldn't normally bash with a shield unless it is strapped to your arm b) an animated shield also enchanted as a dancing weapon could make bash attacks on its own for up to 4 rounds following the normal rules for a dancing weapon (and for shield bashes), and could return to floating purely for defense for 4 rounds c) the description of the "animated" property suggests to me that feats that augment shield use (such as Improved Shield Bash) will still work normally if they come into play As for using two shields, the rules do sort of cover that - the rules for magic items on the body make no mention of shields, strongly implying that you can in fact use two if you really wanted. Of course, you will only get one shield bonus to AC.
tarkin 01-16-06, 11:49 AM	Animated does not make the shield intelligent. It can't for example rescue children, pick up dropped items, etc. Nor does it give the weapon your BAB, or proficiency. Animated, being an armor property should not be capable of doing anything except armor stuff. To get offensive activites, you would need Dancing. Keep in mind that offensive capabilities cost more. To attack, you generally want: A mind to control it Strength, Proficiency Skill (BAB) Animated could be claimed to give it strength, but no way for proficiency or skill. Basing might give it Proficiency. Intelligent might give it a mind to control. But it would take Dancing to get your BAB. So an Animated, Intelligent, Bashing shield would attack with a 10 strength, proficency with weapon, but have a BAB of 0, not your BAB.
mvincent 01-16-06, 04:54 PM	Can an Animated Shield be used for Bashing attempts? And if you have an Animated shield floating around you, can you wear a regular shield at the same time, and if so, could both be used for shield bashing?The rules say: "protecting her as if she were using it herself but freeing up both her hands" So yes, you could wield an additional shield in one of the free hands, but note that shield bonuses don't stack (of course). As for bashing with it, that is subject to interpretation. It is usually easiest to view an animated shield as giving you an "extra arm", i.e. it is "as if she were using it herself" (which would allow bashing, assuming the wielder used an attack to do so). However, the same sentence also says it "protects" the wielder this way (which could certainly mean only protects, and thus no bashing).
theplaidknight 01-16-06, 07:46 PM	As a DM I would never allow a shield with only the animated ability to make bash attacks. I'll put myself in the camp that feels that animated shields in general are pretty munchkin-tastic, and allowing such a thing ... makes my stomach twist a little. If you wanted to stack all those enchantments on a shield you'd probably be FAR better off creating a homunculus in the shape of a shield. Depending on your setting it'd probably cost less to create an adamantine, shield-shaped homunculus than it would to create an intelligent dancing, bashing, animated shield anyway. Plus, an intelligent shield would probably rather protect its wielder/master/cohort/whatever than try to attack.
mvincent 01-17-06, 10:57 AM	I'll put myself in the camp that feels that animated shields in general are pretty munchkin-tastic, and allowing such a thing ... makes my stomach twist a little. Out of curiousity, why would you think that a wielder being able to bash with the shield (just as if he was wearing it) was unbalancing? Of course, having it do it by itself (i.e. as an extra attack) would indeed be munchkiny (and an entirely unwarranted interpretation).
Tony Vargas 01-17-06, 07:40 PM	Can an Animated Shield be used for Bashing attempts? No, but a light or heavy shield could be enchanted as a weapon, and given the Dancing ability. It'd be up to your DM whether it'd 'dance' and 'animate' at the same time (that is both Bash and grant you AC simultaneously). And if you have an Animated shield floating around you, can you wear a regular shield at the same time, Yes. There's very little benefit in doing so, since both give shield bonuses, and shield bonuses don't stack. You could bash with the shield you're wearing, though. The books don't seem to cover anything even like this, so your imput is highly appreciated. The idea of using two shields is a little odd, so I'm not surprised that it's not covered explicitly.