Post/Author/DateTime	Post
simen_88 08-31-04, 02:43 PM	Please explain why this is horribly broken.
Wil Harvey 08-31-04, 04:19 PM	Weapon Finesse + Combat Reflexes + reach weapon + high Dex = one sad DM.
Mind Flayer 08-31-04, 05:29 PM	Weapon Finesse + Combat Reflexes + reach weapon + high Dex = one sad DM. Perhaps, but on the other hand, you could look at it like this: Combat Reflexes + Reach Weapon + High Str = one sad DM. This is how it's done by the core rulebooks and at the end of the day, these two forumlas both equal almost the same thing. The only real difference is that in your formula, the PC might have a higher AC (if his armor allows) and in my forumla, the PC definately does more damage due to his higher Str bonus. Personally, I'm not really big on the idea of allowing a weapon like a longspear to be finessed. I don't think most people realize just how clunky a longspear really is. On the other hand, having had a bit of training with the Yari, I can see why weapons like the spear or trident might make good candidates for finessing.
simen_88 08-31-04, 05:31 PM	How about, for example, the glaive or ranseur?
Korhal IV 08-31-04, 05:39 PM	Allowing a PC to finess a reach weapon means he only has to have one high stat (Dex) in order to get both AoOs and the ability to hit with them. Without weapon finesse, he must have both high Dex and high Str. As a side benefit, he does more damage. I'm just fine with the latter way, as battlefield control fighters tend to eliminate interesting encounters (so do lots of other PC tactics, obviously). Plus, I have a hard time seeing a fighter subtly and delicately wielding a ten foot pole with a great big spiked thing on the top.
q'afuu 08-31-04, 06:21 PM	You *can* finesse reach weapons: the whip and the spiked chain. Other reach weapons simply aren't suited to be wielded in a finessed style.
electrosis 09-01-04, 09:34 AM	I'm sorry I was under the impression that you could only use weapon finesse on light weapons.
questionc 09-01-04, 10:41 AM	Except for the fact that it is somewhat silly to finesse most reach weapons realistically, I don't especially see this as a broken idea in itself (balance-wise). To be honest, I can't even imagine a rogue being able to gain any special advantage by using a finessed reach weapon instead of a finessed rapier. Reach weapons do make spring attack a bit better, but other than that, I'm lost for ideas.
simen_88 09-01-04, 10:52 AM	I don't really see it as unrealistic, but then again, I have never used any medieval weapon larger than a kama (and in fact a bo).
tarkin 09-01-04, 11:44 AM	To be honest, I can't even imagine a rogue being able to gain any special advantage by using a finessed reach weapon instead of a finessed rapier. Reach weapons do make spring attack a bit better, but other than that, I'm lost for ideas. Try like this: Rogue type. Using a reach weapon (Spiked Chain) Using Improved Invisibility. Using Combat Reflexes Sitting in the center of a small room. (25 x 25). People enter the room, move about. Because he has Combat Refelexes and a reach weapon, he threatens almost the entire room, taking AoO's for movement. Because he is Invisible, he gets to Sneak Attack them. Because he has Weapon Finesse, he almost certainly hits them.
Sensei Gith 09-01-04, 11:53 AM	And the winner is: improved invisibility. Besides, that's possible with no modification whatsoever. Anyway, there's no real problem with giving out weapon finesse more freely. Sure, it's one stat for AoO's and attack rolls, but damage and trip are both based on strength. And a strength-based character can still accumulate enough dexterity to get plenty of AoO's. Moreover, a character with a low strength loses the best advantages of two-handed weapons.