Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DrowSmurf 10-15-05, 06:20 PM	i was just wondering what the cost of a bag on endless shurikens would cost... just non-magical plain steel shurikens... medium sized, not even masterwork... im assuming somewhere around 2k? possibly a summon spell of some sort? a fabricate?\ wahts the price and how would you go about figuring out the price and waht spells would be used to create it
Kendrick 10-15-05, 09:06 PM	I would think hard before even allowing such an item in a game, and if I did I'd price it at well above 2,000 gp. Major creation allows you to create temporary metal items for a level 5 spell. For an endless bag, I'd go with the continuous spell price, with the cost being SL5*CL9*2000 = 90,000 gp. Edit to add: I would, however, allow a player to make something like a quiver of ehlonna that functioned for shurikens.
DrowSmurf 10-15-05, 09:26 PM	wow... 90k for shuriken! isnt the decanter of water like 9k and can do a 1d4 per round... that seems about even lol :-( darn balancing equations to make the rules work
Kendrick 10-15-05, 09:44 PM	You're trying to eliminate one of the significant limitations of using a thrown weapons character. The Decanter's price is irrelevant - you can't attack 18 times in one round with the Decanter. You can throw 18 shuriken in a round. Limitations (such as having shuriken treated as ammunition) are there for a reason. If you want to get around the limitations, you'd better be prepared to pay a significant price. 90,000 might be high. I might lower the price in my game, after some careful consideration, but I sure as heck don't let my players price things 97% below the already abusable item creation guidelines without thinking about things carefully and looking at the effects on the game.
DrowSmurf 10-15-05, 10:08 PM	well yea i know what you mean lol cause the character this is for can throw 34 shurikens a round... but 90k for a 17th lvl character still works seeing how thats what the character does... im still paying about 1,000gp on adamantine, silvered, and cold iron shurikens incase i run into things with DR how much do you think it would cost to be able to pull out Adamantine, Cold Iron, Silvered, or Normal Shurikens endlessly maybe they dont actually have to be "real" they could disappear a round or 2 later... i dont know if that would even effect the price seeing how i only need each shuriken for a round anyway
FlameLover 10-15-05, 10:09 PM	18 shurikens oer round?! Wait, isn't that 3.0 rules? I beleive DrowSmurf plays 3.5 and if that's the case it's only 6 or 7 *max* at level 20 with haste and stuff. I'd price it at 2,500gp or around that. At levels higher than about 5 it'd be kinda useless so i might even lower it to 1,800gp. EDIT: 34?!?!?111!! OMFGWTFBBQ... With that many i'd rule it'd be atleast 90,000gp then.
Kendrick 10-15-05, 11:29 PM	You can get at least 18/round in 3.5. Could be more, but I can get 18 with about 30 seconds of thought: Monk 15/Master Thrower 5 4 for BAB 2 more for greater flurry 3 for the TWF chain 9 total attacks Use the Master Thrower Palm Throw ability to throw 2 seperate Shurikens with each attack, and you throw 18/turn. Here's my deal on pricing, and now I'm not just gonna formula it, I'm gonna think about this: Belt of many pockets: Stores items that already exist, eliminating the space and weight requirements. You can retrieve them as a move action. The item this player wants is pretty much the same thing, except he also wants it to make the shuriken, and he wants them as a free action. As a mitigating factor, he wouldn't be able to store other items. Since mitigating factors should have much less impact than adding additional abilities (or else every item would be made "useable only by a member of my race, my class, my number of ranks in speak language... just to get the cost down) I'd say that overall the "bag of infinite shuriken" which refills itself with shuriken whenever the contents are removed and can be drawn from as a free action should cost roughly twice as much as the belt - +50% of price for having it create the items, and +50% for use as a free action. I'll let the mitigating factor drop it by 2K so it would come out to exactly 20K. Then I'd double the cost, if the player wanted it to be an unslotted item, or allow it at 20K as a belt. As for special materials: Since adamantine is the most costly, I'll just look at that and assume that all others are subsumed. If an average encounter lasted 5 rounds at a rate of 30 shuriken/round, each encounter would cost 9,000 gp worth of adamantine. Multiply by 10 seems to be the cost of going from 1 time only to permanent (in traps, for example) so figure that for 10 encounters worth of adamantine you should be able to have adamantine in every encounter you fight. That would give a cost of +90,000 to have your belt make special material shuriken, for a total of 110,000 gp. Double that to 220,000 gp for an unslotted item. So, there you have it: My thought out estimate for the items you want: Belt of Infinite Shuriken: 20,000 gp Bag of Infinite Shuriken: 40,000 gp Belt of Infinite Metaline Shuriken: 110,000 gp Bag of Infinite Metaline Shuriken: 220,000 gp And note that these shuriken would last only a round or maybe a few rounds.
RavenDrake 10-15-05, 11:53 PM	A similar question came up before(and I wish I'd saved that thread in stead of just this item) and someone posted this item. I THINK it's both official AND OGL (if it's not official, it can't really hurt the goings on, it seems fairly balanced. IF it's not OGL, someone PM me and I'll edit it out quickly). Quiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver. Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes. Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb. This particular item is for arrows, rather than shuriken or other thrown weapons, but since Shuriken follow ammo rules for pricing they would likely have a close price value...
Norath 10-16-05, 12:43 AM	I think there is allrdy an item like this made for arows.. i think normal arows where 28k or somthing...
Jaxgaret 10-16-05, 11:32 AM	He got 34 attacks/round because he's using a four-armed Thri-Cheese, i mean Thri-Kreen.
DrowSmurf 10-16-05, 11:39 AM	im not using thri-kreen because i can get more attacks off, im using thri-kreen because its my favorite race... i make monks, fighters, archers, now thrown weapon guys, and im working on some cool spellcaster thri-kreen... i love em! i played them in 3.0 even though it was like +3LA and 2HD or +5LA for the "psionic" version.... so :P
warlockco 10-16-05, 11:50 AM	This would be a good magic item to use as a base item to create your neverending Shuriken item off of. From the Compaions of the Hall article. Magic Item by Thomas M Costa. Quiver of Anariel: Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver. Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes. Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.
Cole-Terenzin 10-17-05, 12:36 AM	Ok Then DrowSmurf, try this on for size. +1 Shuriken of return. This is a plus 2 weapon. cost is 8,000gp each. thus the cost would be 5600gp each if you add the restriction that these can only be used by chaotic good or what ever your alignment is you can reduce the price by 30% thus you would have This would allow the weapons to return to you from Where you threw them from at the start of the next round. If you multiply this by 8 (the number of shurikens you can throw in a round) then that is 44,800gp Thus you could get 16 of these babies for 89,600 That cost saving should make you happy.
RavenDrake 10-17-05, 12:46 AM	warlockco: I posted that under the spoiler block above you... I only spoilered it cause I wasn't sure it was OGL... thinging back, now, I'm not sure why that seemed like a good idea at the time... Cole-Terenzin: That would be under 3.0, not 3.5. Ammunition cannot be enchanted by Returning, except by sadistic DM's. (Woops, you missed... let's see if your attack beats your AC...) DrowSmurf If you're looking for something interesting to do with a four armed spellcaster, take a look at the Nimbletouch Mage in my signature... specialized PrC for multiarmed spellcasters.
Kendrick 10-17-05, 01:14 AM	Ok Then DrowSmurf, try this on for size. +1 Shuriken of return. This is a plus 2 weapon. cost is 8,000gp each. thus the cost would be 5600gp each if you add the restriction that these can only be used by chaotic good or what ever your alignment is you can reduce the price by 30% thus you would have This would allow the weapons to return to you from Where you threw them from at the start of the next round. If you multiply this by 8 (the number of shurikens you can throw in a round) then that is 44,800gp Thus you could get 16 of these babies for 89,600 That cost saving should make you happy. Besides the fact that Shuriken function as ammunition (and therefore break when you hit with them), I'd put the odds somewhere around 4:1 against him finding a DM stupid enough to allow an alignment restriction to reduce cost on a custom item. There's pretty much a consensus that a DM should not allow alignment, race, skill ranks, or anything similar to reduce cost on a custom item.
Cole-Terenzin 10-17-05, 08:06 PM	Arrows and stones being amo yes I can understand this that they are disposable. My understanding of shirukens is that they are made out of metal like daggers and thus I would have thought that they could be reused. Well that is information that I was not aware of.
Kendrick 10-17-05, 08:27 PM	Shuriken don't act like amunition in the real world. The reason they're treated that way is mechanical - for balance. The fact that they're treated as amunition for balance purposes tells us that the designers didn't want enchanted shuriken to be readily available. They're supposed to be expensive and wasteful, as a balancing factor for being able to use them with flurry and so on. That's a big part of the reason I would be hesitant to allow a play to build an item of infinite magical shuriken at any price, nevermind something as cheap as 128k for a +5 bonus.