any other AC guidlines [Archive] - Wizards Community

any other AC guidlines [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Necrosaro
05-09-06, 07:35 PM are there any guidlines for a different kind of armor class rules. like if a character is wearing chain mail with a plate helmet. Or what if he has a vest of one suit and the legs of another? or just a helmet and plain cloths. i was hoping to split up armor so the parts can be found seperatly and have some effect.
tarkin
05-09-06, 07:44 PM The basic game assumes that you have bits of lesser armor underneath.

That is people wearing "Breastplate" are not going around with their arms bear. It is assumed that they have some kind of thick leather on it at the very least, possibly some chain.

======
Also, some of the oriental adventure books listed some optional "piecemail" armor rules that let you mix and match a bit more. This might be what you are looking for.
Mitchell
05-09-06, 11:07 PM Do yourself a favor and don't obsess over helmets and/or gauntlets.
If someone is wearing padded armor and puts a gauntlet on, it doesn't impact their AC. Same if someone wearing full plate takes their helmet off. (exceptions, of course, if a magic helmet or gauntlet actually provide an AC bonus of some sort)
Some people have various house rules that give a helmet some real purpose, but it isn't something that I consider to be worth debating. You want to run around without a helmet to get yourself some face-time? Go ahead. You want to wear a helmet to look all intimidating, even though you wear no armor? Enjoy. Impact of either of those on AC? None.
Necrosaro
05-10-06, 06:52 AM i just like the idea that you could wear what you want to and it have some kind of affect. also, i always liked in rpgs when i finally piece together a suite of armor i have been trying to find and finally feel all decked out, its a great accomplishing feeling instead of just going to a store and buying the whole thing in one shot. but if each piece of the armor doesn't really have any affect then there is no point of wearing the whole suite anyway
fendrin
05-10-06, 12:22 PM AFAIK, there are no rules for this.

However, nothing stops you from making up your own rules.

Something to remember, though, is that the gauntlets from full plate are nigh-identical to the gauntlets from half plate.

If you are looking for a video game style effect of different armor parts giving different bonuses, then I would recommend that you make 'sets' of magic armor that perhaps have an additional effect if all are worn together.

For example, lets split your typical suit of armor into 4 parts:

Helmet
Armor
Gauntlets
Boots

Now, lets take these parts and design 'The armor of the great warrior Shmuckle'.
----------------------
Schmuckle was famous for his great deeds in the dark depths of the ocean, fighting an evil race of sharkmen on the back of his trusty dire dolphin mount. All who make their living on the sea have heard of Shmuckle and his blue-green scale-motif armor, with it's gold trim and great magic.

Shmuckle's armor:

Helm: equiv. to Goggles of Night
Armor: Plate Armor of the Deep
Gauntlets: equiv, to Ring of Freedom of Movment
Boots: equiv. to Gloves of Swimming and Climbing

If all four parts of Shmuckle's armor are worn, the wearer gains the ability to call forth a Dire Dolphin, which serves the wearer as a loyal mount. It gains special abilities as if it were the mount of a paladin whose class levels equal to the wearer's hit dice.
----------------------

Now obviously, these items are more powerful than the standard, and therefore should be considered to be worth more than the standard version of the item. Indeed, one should not be able to simply buy these pieces, they should have to be quested after.
mvincent
05-10-06, 01:44 PM i was hoping to split up armor so the parts can be found seperatly and have some effect.As mentioned, the gauntlets, helm, boots things sounds good.

You could also possibly increase the armor type as they find more pieces, going from say:
Padded to
Breastplate to
Half-plate to
Full plate
Mitchell
05-12-06, 01:18 AM If you want to do something like this, get ready to figure...
Basic armor, from padded all the way to full plate, provides an armor bonus of anywhere from 1 to 8.
Padded can't be broken up. You are either wearing it or you aren't. You either have a +1 armor bonus or you don't.
Leather provides a +2 armor bonus, so you have a little more flexibility in what makes that up.
A chain shirt has an armor bonus of +4 and includes a steel cap. Now it's decision time. Is tha cap worth a point of AC? If so, is a visored help worth more? What if someone wearing studded leather grabs and puts on the steel cap from a fallen ally? If the cap is worth a point, then suddenly that studded leather becomes just as good as the chain shirt, but weighs less, costs less, has less of a check penalty, a higher max dex mod, and less ASF.
Now if you give that cap an armor bonus, now how do you work out the fact that studded leather isn't supposed to be as good as, let alone better than, a chain shirt? And what if I get some gauntlets too?
I used to play Rolemaster. All the different armor combinations making up a great number of diffferent ACs. Of course, every weapon had it's own unique attack table, but that just goes to illustrate my point about complexity (there may be a reason why DnD outsold Rolemaster).
If you do something like this, you will have to refigure a great deal of what makes a given armor provide a given armor class, and prevent any minor add-ons from making an inferior armor into a superior armor.
The only way that I could think of doing this with any real consistency is to make a single suit of armor, plate, and breaking it into 8 component parts, each offering a single point of armor bonus... I can think of 5 parts off the top of my head, but that doesn't include an under-layer, which makes 6. Maybe if you stop there, the breastplate could offer more than a single point of armor.
After figuring out the components, I now go into the individual component weights, max dex bonus (and the max dex when combined with what other parts), ASF, armor proficiencies (does piece "A" require lt, med, hvy?) and proficiencies for combos, speed and speed for combos, and then cost per piece.
And after all of that, I have all the parts to make a suit of full plate figured out... What about chain? If you use chain as an underlayer of the plate, I need something like leather or padded. Did you add that as component 8? And underlayer to the underlayer? Now a breastplate offers no more armor advantage than a pair of gauntlets.
Break it down if you want to, just know going in that the system as it is wasn't meant to be disected in this way, and you'll be reinventing the wheel.
Enjoy. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Necrosaro 05-09-06, 07:35 PM	are there any guidlines for a different kind of armor class rules. like if a character is wearing chain mail with a plate helmet. Or what if he has a vest of one suit and the legs of another? or just a helmet and plain cloths. i was hoping to split up armor so the parts can be found seperatly and have some effect.
tarkin 05-09-06, 07:44 PM	The basic game assumes that you have bits of lesser armor underneath. That is people wearing "Breastplate" are not going around with their arms bear. It is assumed that they have some kind of thick leather on it at the very least, possibly some chain. ====== Also, some of the oriental adventure books listed some optional "piecemail" armor rules that let you mix and match a bit more. This might be what you are looking for.
Mitchell 05-09-06, 11:07 PM	Do yourself a favor and don't obsess over helmets and/or gauntlets. If someone is wearing padded armor and puts a gauntlet on, it doesn't impact their AC. Same if someone wearing full plate takes their helmet off. (exceptions, of course, if a magic helmet or gauntlet actually provide an AC bonus of some sort) Some people have various house rules that give a helmet some real purpose, but it isn't something that I consider to be worth debating. You want to run around without a helmet to get yourself some face-time? Go ahead. You want to wear a helmet to look all intimidating, even though you wear no armor? Enjoy. Impact of either of those on AC? None.
Necrosaro 05-10-06, 06:52 AM	i just like the idea that you could wear what you want to and it have some kind of affect. also, i always liked in rpgs when i finally piece together a suite of armor i have been trying to find and finally feel all decked out, its a great accomplishing feeling instead of just going to a store and buying the whole thing in one shot. but if each piece of the armor doesn't really have any affect then there is no point of wearing the whole suite anyway
fendrin 05-10-06, 12:22 PM	AFAIK, there are no rules for this. However, nothing stops you from making up your own rules. Something to remember, though, is that the gauntlets from full plate are nigh-identical to the gauntlets from half plate. If you are looking for a video game style effect of different armor parts giving different bonuses, then I would recommend that you make 'sets' of magic armor that perhaps have an additional effect if all are worn together. For example, lets split your typical suit of armor into 4 parts: Helmet Armor Gauntlets Boots Now, lets take these parts and design 'The armor of the great warrior Shmuckle'. ---------------------- Schmuckle was famous for his great deeds in the dark depths of the ocean, fighting an evil race of sharkmen on the back of his trusty dire dolphin mount. All who make their living on the sea have heard of Shmuckle and his blue-green scale-motif armor, with it's gold trim and great magic. Shmuckle's armor: Helm: equiv. to Goggles of Night Armor: Plate Armor of the Deep Gauntlets: equiv, to Ring of Freedom of Movment Boots: equiv. to Gloves of Swimming and Climbing If all four parts of Shmuckle's armor are worn, the wearer gains the ability to call forth a Dire Dolphin, which serves the wearer as a loyal mount. It gains special abilities as if it were the mount of a paladin whose class levels equal to the wearer's hit dice. ---------------------- Now obviously, these items are more powerful than the standard, and therefore should be considered to be worth more than the standard version of the item. Indeed, one should not be able to simply buy these pieces, they should have to be quested after.
mvincent 05-10-06, 01:44 PM	i was hoping to split up armor so the parts can be found seperatly and have some effect.As mentioned, the gauntlets, helm, boots things sounds good. You could also possibly increase the armor type as they find more pieces, going from say: Padded to Breastplate to Half-plate to Full plate
Mitchell 05-12-06, 01:18 AM	If you want to do something like this, get ready to figure... Basic armor, from padded all the way to full plate, provides an armor bonus of anywhere from 1 to 8. Padded can't be broken up. You are either wearing it or you aren't. You either have a +1 armor bonus or you don't. Leather provides a +2 armor bonus, so you have a little more flexibility in what makes that up. A chain shirt has an armor bonus of +4 and includes a steel cap. Now it's decision time. Is tha cap worth a point of AC? If so, is a visored help worth more? What if someone wearing studded leather grabs and puts on the steel cap from a fallen ally? If the cap is worth a point, then suddenly that studded leather becomes just as good as the chain shirt, but weighs less, costs less, has less of a check penalty, a higher max dex mod, and less ASF. Now if you give that cap an armor bonus, now how do you work out the fact that studded leather isn't supposed to be as good as, let alone better than, a chain shirt? And what if I get some gauntlets too? I used to play Rolemaster. All the different armor combinations making up a great number of diffferent ACs. Of course, every weapon had it's own unique attack table, but that just goes to illustrate my point about complexity (there may be a reason why DnD outsold Rolemaster). If you do something like this, you will have to refigure a great deal of what makes a given armor provide a given armor class, and prevent any minor add-ons from making an inferior armor into a superior armor. The only way that I could think of doing this with any real consistency is to make a single suit of armor, plate, and breaking it into 8 component parts, each offering a single point of armor bonus... I can think of 5 parts off the top of my head, but that doesn't include an under-layer, which makes 6. Maybe if you stop there, the breastplate could offer more than a single point of armor. After figuring out the components, I now go into the individual component weights, max dex bonus (and the max dex when combined with what other parts), ASF, armor proficiencies (does piece "A" require lt, med, hvy?) and proficiencies for combos, speed and speed for combos, and then cost per piece. And after all of that, I have all the parts to make a suit of full plate figured out... What about chain? If you use chain as an underlayer of the plate, I need something like leather or padded. Did you add that as component 8? And underlayer to the underlayer? Now a breastplate offers no more armor advantage than a pair of gauntlets. Break it down if you want to, just know going in that the system as it is wasn't meant to be disected in this way, and you'll be reinventing the wheel. Enjoy. :)