Any rules on how breaking a charge works? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Any rules on how breaking a charge works? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mbeach90266
03-29-06, 06:27 PM Are there any mechanics/rules for breaking a charge?

For instance, if I get an AoO or get off a readied attack on a charger going by me on the way to someone else, will it stop his charge? The readied action specifically states that the action is interupted; does that mean they lose the action?

If there is no rule for this, my line of thinking is that maybe they should make a concentration roll to continue, with 10+ the damage as the DC.

Thanks
Chikngizrd
03-29-06, 06:40 PM Your attack will not stop his charge unless its drops him. The same is true if you move through a threatened square and suffer an AoO. If it doesn't drop you, you still finish your move. Same is true for readied attacks as well.

Having a concentration check would nuke this tactic as mainly fighters use it and they don't get concentration as a class skill and would serve them no other purpose.

If anything, and I'm not suggesting its use, it should be a balance check to see if your strike knocked him off-course. But still, no check should be made. You'll either drop him or not.

Alternately, there are "defender" feats that would allow you to ready an action and then intercede yourself in the charge preventing the charger from getting to his intended chargee.
draconic_swine
03-29-06, 06:52 PM One way to stop a charging opponent, completely RAW, is to use a guisarme and ready a trip action against a charging opponent.
Beckett
03-29-06, 06:52 PM Actually, a readied action does stop a charge. If you ready an action to move if someone charges at you, you designate when you will move, (interupting their action any time in between the beginning and one square before they are able to hit you). If an action interupts your action, and makes it impossible to continue, you lose the rest of your actions. After you move, if it is not a valid place for the charge to continue, they either continue with the charge, or stop , losing the remainder of their actions.

Also note, that the charger can change the target of their charge at any time after the begin move to the time they actually make the attack role, so long as it is still a valid target for a charge. For example, if you readied your action to five foot step back and cast Wall of _____, to block a charge. The one who is charging, could continue their charge and attack the wall, (if it is a valid target, and probably is).
mbeach90266
03-29-06, 06:53 PM in the PHB on Readied Actions, it says that the readied action goes before the action that triggers it, and that the readied action "interrupts" the triggering action. Does this mean that a readied action could stop an action like a charge from happening? The word "interrupt" doesn't seem to describe things enough for me.
Beckett
03-29-06, 08:15 PM Yes, but probably not before it completely begins. Interupts means that it takes place anywhere between the beginning and the end of another action, but generally anytime you wish in between. Here is an example. A Cleric and a Wixards are bother threatening each other, (withing 5 ft). The wizards casts a spell, but does not do it defensively. So the Cleric takes an attack of oppertunity. (The Attack of Oppertunity, or AoO interupts the action that prevokes it). Not casting the spell defensively while threatened provokes the AoO.

So the Cleric takes a free swing at the Wizard, before the spell is cast. Now, if he hits, he does damage, and may disrupt the spell, which the Wizard would need to check for before the spell is actually cast. This is a circumstance that interupts the casting of the spell, so it must happen and succeed before the spell goes off. Lastly, considering the wizard is still standing after the damage, and does not fail the concentration check, again after the damage, the spell goes off.

An action is not set in stone until you actually take (begin) it. For example, the player can say they will full attack a target for their turn, but if they kill it in one swing, they can either choose to move, or to pick another target, because both are still valid options at that point.
FLAvatar
03-30-06, 10:47 AM Interrupt in the context of an AOO or readied action just means the attack happens out of turn, not that it necessarily negates the interrupted action.

The charge can be stopped if, as a consequence of the resolution of an AOO or readied action, the charger can no longer complete the movement or attack.

Lots of things will make fulfilling the conditions for the charge difficult, impossible or unwise, including: being tripped or dismounted, being disarmed, dying :), or feats that allow the target to move and break the straight line needed to qualify for the charge. Assuming the charger survives all these obstacles, however, they still get to make their charge attack.

There isn't a rule for breaking charges though. I see where you are going with the concentration check, and it's a nifty idea, but I don't know how easily it could be house-ruled in. You couldn't start the check at 10+damage (maybe just straight damage = DC instead) unless you are planning on giving fighters and barbarians Concentration as a class skill. You would also ruin the Rage ability, since Barbarians can't even make Concentration checks while raging. Perhaps a Fortitude save would be more in line than a Concentration Check, so that wizards aren't better at charging than fighters :)

You could alsoexperiment and tinker with it by raising the DC of a Ride check for a mounted charger.
Beckett
04-10-06, 11:16 PM The concentration check I was refering to was for the example of the Cleric and Wizards fighting to illistrate some examples of interrupting action.
Vaelan
04-10-06, 11:45 PM Are there any mechanics/rules for breaking a charge?
Yes. There is a feat by the name of Stand Still that allow you to stop a person's movement when you hit them with an AoO, but you forfeit the damage you would normally deal.
mbeach90266
04-11-06, 10:31 AM The concentration check I was refering to was for the example of the Cleric and Wizards fighting to illistrate some examples of interrupting action.

Beckett,
He was referring to my original question about maybe requiring a Concentration check of DC 10 + damage to overcome having your charge stopped by damage.

The Fortitude check is probably a better idea to house rule because the of the reasons mentioned.

The Stand Still feat is nice. I just feel like there should be a rule in place for a chance of stopping movement on an AoO hit without a feat. I'll probably house rule a fortitude check vs every melee hit, with a DC of 10+ melee damage, every additional hit is a new roll with +2 DC. I might allow taking 10 when charging.
magnuskn
04-11-06, 11:07 AM Use the feats "Hold the Line" and "Improved Trip". :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mbeach90266 03-29-06, 06:27 PM	Are there any mechanics/rules for breaking a charge? For instance, if I get an AoO or get off a readied attack on a charger going by me on the way to someone else, will it stop his charge? The readied action specifically states that the action is interupted; does that mean they lose the action? If there is no rule for this, my line of thinking is that maybe they should make a concentration roll to continue, with 10+ the damage as the DC. Thanks
Chikngizrd 03-29-06, 06:40 PM	Your attack will not stop his charge unless its drops him. The same is true if you move through a threatened square and suffer an AoO. If it doesn't drop you, you still finish your move. Same is true for readied attacks as well. Having a concentration check would nuke this tactic as mainly fighters use it and they don't get concentration as a class skill and would serve them no other purpose. If anything, and I'm not suggesting its use, it should be a balance check to see if your strike knocked him off-course. But still, no check should be made. You'll either drop him or not. Alternately, there are "defender" feats that would allow you to ready an action and then intercede yourself in the charge preventing the charger from getting to his intended chargee.
draconic_swine 03-29-06, 06:52 PM	One way to stop a charging opponent, completely RAW, is to use a guisarme and ready a trip action against a charging opponent.
Beckett 03-29-06, 06:52 PM	Actually, a readied action does stop a charge. If you ready an action to move if someone charges at you, you designate when you will move, (interupting their action any time in between the beginning and one square before they are able to hit you). If an action interupts your action, and makes it impossible to continue, you lose the rest of your actions. After you move, if it is not a valid place for the charge to continue, they either continue with the charge, or stop , losing the remainder of their actions. Also note, that the charger can change the target of their charge at any time after the begin move to the time they actually make the attack role, so long as it is still a valid target for a charge. For example, if you readied your action to five foot step back and cast Wall of _____, to block a charge. The one who is charging, could continue their charge and attack the wall, (if it is a valid target, and probably is).
mbeach90266 03-29-06, 06:53 PM	in the PHB on Readied Actions, it says that the readied action goes before the action that triggers it, and that the readied action "interrupts" the triggering action. Does this mean that a readied action could stop an action like a charge from happening? The word "interrupt" doesn't seem to describe things enough for me.
Beckett 03-29-06, 08:15 PM	Yes, but probably not before it completely begins. Interupts means that it takes place anywhere between the beginning and the end of another action, but generally anytime you wish in between. Here is an example. A Cleric and a Wixards are bother threatening each other, (withing 5 ft). The wizards casts a spell, but does not do it defensively. So the Cleric takes an attack of oppertunity. (The Attack of Oppertunity, or AoO interupts the action that prevokes it). Not casting the spell defensively while threatened provokes the AoO. So the Cleric takes a free swing at the Wizard, before the spell is cast. Now, if he hits, he does damage, and may disrupt the spell, which the Wizard would need to check for before the spell is actually cast. This is a circumstance that interupts the casting of the spell, so it must happen and succeed before the spell goes off. Lastly, considering the wizard is still standing after the damage, and does not fail the concentration check, again after the damage, the spell goes off. An action is not set in stone until you actually take (begin) it. For example, the player can say they will full attack a target for their turn, but if they kill it in one swing, they can either choose to move, or to pick another target, because both are still valid options at that point.
FLAvatar 03-30-06, 10:47 AM	Interrupt in the context of an AOO or readied action just means the attack happens out of turn, not that it necessarily negates the interrupted action. The charge can be stopped if, as a consequence of the resolution of an AOO or readied action, the charger can no longer complete the movement or attack. Lots of things will make fulfilling the conditions for the charge difficult, impossible or unwise, including: being tripped or dismounted, being disarmed, dying :), or feats that allow the target to move and break the straight line needed to qualify for the charge. Assuming the charger survives all these obstacles, however, they still get to make their charge attack. There isn't a rule for breaking charges though. I see where you are going with the concentration check, and it's a nifty idea, but I don't know how easily it could be house-ruled in. You couldn't start the check at 10+damage (maybe just straight damage = DC instead) unless you are planning on giving fighters and barbarians Concentration as a class skill. You would also ruin the Rage ability, since Barbarians can't even make Concentration checks while raging. Perhaps a Fortitude save would be more in line than a Concentration Check, so that wizards aren't better at charging than fighters :) You could alsoexperiment and tinker with it by raising the DC of a Ride check for a mounted charger.
Beckett 04-10-06, 11:16 PM	The concentration check I was refering to was for the example of the Cleric and Wizards fighting to illistrate some examples of interrupting action.
Vaelan 04-10-06, 11:45 PM	Are there any mechanics/rules for breaking a charge? Yes. There is a feat by the name of Stand Still that allow you to stop a person's movement when you hit them with an AoO, but you forfeit the damage you would normally deal.
mbeach90266 04-11-06, 10:31 AM	The concentration check I was refering to was for the example of the Cleric and Wizards fighting to illistrate some examples of interrupting action. Beckett, He was referring to my original question about maybe requiring a Concentration check of DC 10 + damage to overcome having your charge stopped by damage. The Fortitude check is probably a better idea to house rule because the of the reasons mentioned. The Stand Still feat is nice. I just feel like there should be a rule in place for a chance of stopping movement on an AoO hit without a feat. I'll probably house rule a fortitude check vs every melee hit, with a DC of 10+ melee damage, every additional hit is a new roll with +2 DC. I might allow taking 10 when charging.
magnuskn 04-11-06, 11:07 AM	Use the feats "Hold the Line" and "Improved Trip". :)