Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SterlingHeart PaganPummel 11-17-05, 09:50 AM	anyone got a simple system of blunt vs plate, edged vs lether etc mods? I mean, a heavy hammer smacking a guy in plate might tend to ignore the hardness of the plate, sheer impact and all that
Tony Vargas 11-17-05, 12:32 PM	There isn't a simple way to do it. Different weapons with the same damage type can be 'realistically' very different in thier effectiveness vs different types of armor. A sap, quarterstaff, and warhammer, for instance, all do bludgeoning damage, yet the last will be much more effective against an enemy in Full Plate than would the other two. A rapier and a heavy pick both do d6 piercing damage, but thier ability to penetrate armor is radically different. However, the threat/crit settup of weapons does reflect 'armor penetration' just a bit. When you face a very high AC opponent (such as one wearing heavy armor), you may find yourself missing even on a rolled threat, if you use a weapon like a rapier. Such weapons always have x2 crit multipliers. So, if you compare the average expected average damage of a broad-threat-range rapier, to a high-crit-multiplier pick, when you need a 20 to hit, you'll see that they do the same base damage, crit exactly as often (1 in 400 attacks), but that the pick does twice as much damage on those crits. That does make high-crit weapons mathematically slightly more effective vs heavy armor. And, D&D tends to assign high crits to weapons that are generally seen as being good at getting through armor - picks, warhammers, battle axes, halberds, lances and so forth. It's far from perfect or perfectly consistent, but it's a little something, and it's already there in the rules.
Rulebook 11-17-05, 01:24 PM	well, here's some experp from the 2nd ed PHB on the subject Slash Pierce Bludgeon Chain +2 0 -2 Full Plate+4 +3 0 Leather 0 -2 0 Scale 0 +1 0
00_Whupass 11-17-05, 01:58 PM	Bare in mind that in 2nd ed a + was penalty and a - a bonus due to the notably whacko THAC0 system. So just take the opposite of all the values in the table when using this in 3.x. Also I agree with Tony that this is already accounted for to some extent by the Critical hit system, and would also like to add that the weapon type vs armor is one of the many rules, along with weapon speeds, dynamic intiative, and lots of others, that really bogged down 2nd ed combat. Using such a system you can't just roll and add your attack modifer telling the DM the result but have to check with the DM to find out what type of armor the opposition is wearing first. Another point to consider before using such a system is how to handle natural armor, which can take many forms, thick tough hides (leather like), chitenous exoskeletons (Plate like), and so on, adding yet another degree of complexity and nessicary DM arbitration to the game.
Vahenir 11-17-05, 02:13 PM	Read the d20 Conan RPG by Mongoose Publishing. It includes a very smooth and easy-to-use specific weapon vs. armour system which is head and shoulders more realistic than any 'damage type vs. armour' system out there, which, as Tony pointed out, are not at all realistic.
Watchman 11-17-05, 03:58 PM	I love that system. Best adaptation of D20 rules I've ever seen.
Vahenir 11-17-05, 04:03 PM	Agreed. Though Iron Heroes is pretty awesome as well. I plan to make an interesting attempt. I am going to put my copy of Iron Heroes and The Conan RPG into a standard worktable vice. I will then squeeze these books together until they become one uber-system of awesomeness.
SterlingHeart PaganPummel 11-17-05, 09:35 PM	Could just say the threats are modified...19-20 for soft armors vs slashing, 19-20 for blunt vs hard armors....all weapons do x2....
WhiteHarness 11-18-05, 06:31 PM	I still wish the standard D&D rules would just allow armour as DR (and not at half the AC bonus as in Unearthed Arcana; there's no reason full plate can't totally negate 8 points of damage). The only reason to keep the old AC thing is nostalgia; a sort of "but this is the way the game's always been" mentality. Bleah!