AoA Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

AoA Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Peregrine_Wolf
07-28-07, 03:06 PM I was working on a build for one of my Rogue characters, and I was wondering exactly how the AoO's would work with it.

So, can you make an AoO when an ally makes an AoO if you have Opportunist?
jaelis
07-28-07, 03:17 PM So, can you make an AoO when an ally makes an AoO if you have Opportunist?
Yes, you can use it any time an ally hits in melee. (But only 1/round, of course.)
Peregrine_Wolf
07-28-07, 03:29 PM Ahhh....but with teh Savvy Rogue feat, I can use Opportunist as many times as I could AoO's from Combat Reflexes. That could be pretty mean if your flanked by two Rogues with Savvy Rogue, Combat Relfexes, and a few other feats that help you with AoO's from Complete Adventurer..... SA death in very few turns(usually just one or two) =P
zorgling25
07-28-07, 03:49 PM As a DM, if I ever saw that, I'd start throwing more critical immune monsters the Player's way (or more darkness effects).
Twylyght
07-28-07, 04:31 PM I dunno, that a fair amount of dedication by two characters to specifically work together. I might include a few such encounters to make sure they are challenged, but Id certainly avoid making it a useless venture.
zorgling25
07-28-07, 05:00 PM I dunno, that a fair amount of dedication by two characters to specifically work together. I might include a few such encounters to make sure they are challenged, but Id certainly avoid making it a useless venture.

I wouldn't make EVERY encounter smash those two, but seeing as they would dominate the spotlight during encounters that they could sneak, I would try to balance between encounters where they dominate and those in which they fall into the background.
SephDragoon
07-28-07, 05:33 PM As a DM, if I ever saw that, I'd start throwing more critical immune monsters the Player's way (or more darkness effects).

That is kind of gay... punishing them for working well together. If you want to do something interesting, put them against many lower level enemies instead of one higher level one. Makes their tactic less world breaking, but doesn't make it impossible for them to work together.
zorgling25
07-28-07, 06:03 PM That is kind of gay... punishing them for working well together. If you want to do something interesting, put them against many lower level enemies instead of one higher level one. Makes their tactic less world breaking, but doesn't make it impossible for them to work together.

Its sort of an irrelevant issue for me, since I don't know where Savvy Rogue is from, and I don't have the book. I usually don't allow material from books that I don't own.

Still, its not that I'm punishing them for working well together. I guess it sort of depends on the other members of the party. If their methods are detracting from the fun of everyone else in the party, its the job of the DM to provide encounters that can be fun for everyone. I have to admit, come to think of it, that I like your idea better.
Twylyght
07-28-07, 06:27 PM Something with uncanny dodge would cut the sneak attack damage too.

I do stand on both sides of the issue. A DM should not target to nullify a players tactics or abilities most of the time. But sometimes its needed to preserve the sense of danger and let everyone have a chance to use their abilities. The biggest example would certainly be any rivals that are around. Someone who dealt with the party before and managed to survive would certainly be prepared the next time around. A rogue who has tailed the party, studied them, and done some research could certainly make a suprising challenge in his own right. Sometime, theres just going to be undead.

As someone who played a Cleric with the sun domain in a campain that never had a single undead, and played a Cavalier in a campain that suddenly had only indoor combat after my first mounted lance crit. I have seen the low fun scenarios that pop up when its overdone. But done right, it can be the key ingredient to keeping the game rewarding and challenging for all.
kjenks
07-29-07, 09:54 AM (Although I don't want to derail the discussion, I didn't want to let this pass without comment: I sent e-mail to SephDragoon about his socially inappropriate choice of words.)
SephDragoon
07-29-07, 03:41 PM (Although I don't want to derail the discussion, I didn't want to let this pass without comment: I sent e-mail to SephDragoon about his socially inappropriate choice of words.)

And I sent the reply back, life ain't fire... If you are offended, you need a tougher hide, because 90% of the time, people aren't going to be "nice" about it, especially if it is just a figure of speech like what I said.
zorgling25
07-29-07, 03:47 PM And I sent the reply back, life ain't fire... If you are offended, you need a tougher hide, because 90% of the time, people aren't going to be "nice" about it, especially if it is just a figure of speech like what I said.

You might want to look at this (http://boards1.wizards.com/community_coc.php).

While your comment about my DMing practices are not personally offensive to me, you're walking a fine line in relation to some of those prohibited behaviors.
Dheran
07-29-07, 04:00 PM Someone who dealt with the party before and managed to survive would certainly be prepared the next time around. A rogue who has tailed the party, studied them, and done some research could certainly make a suprising challenge in his own right. Enemies can find out things about the party through magic, too. Know Opponent and Know Vulnerabilities (both in Spell Compendium) are good for this.
SephDragoon
07-29-07, 07:36 PM You might want to look at this (http://boards1.wizards.com/community_coc.php).

While your comment about my DMing practices are not personally offensive to me, you're walking a fine line in relation to some of those prohibited behaviors.

No, I'm not... it is a figure of speech, has nothing to do with sexual orientation, any more than being "cool" has to do with your temperature. Get over it, jesus christ!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Peregrine_Wolf 07-28-07, 03:06 PM	I was working on a build for one of my Rogue characters, and I was wondering exactly how the AoO's would work with it. So, can you make an AoO when an ally makes an AoO if you have Opportunist?
jaelis 07-28-07, 03:17 PM	So, can you make an AoO when an ally makes an AoO if you have Opportunist? Yes, you can use it any time an ally hits in melee. (But only 1/round, of course.)
Peregrine_Wolf 07-28-07, 03:29 PM	Ahhh....but with teh Savvy Rogue feat, I can use Opportunist as many times as I could AoO's from Combat Reflexes. That could be pretty mean if your flanked by two Rogues with Savvy Rogue, Combat Relfexes, and a few other feats that help you with AoO's from Complete Adventurer..... SA death in very few turns(usually just one or two) =P
zorgling25 07-28-07, 03:49 PM	As a DM, if I ever saw that, I'd start throwing more critical immune monsters the Player's way (or more darkness effects).
Twylyght 07-28-07, 04:31 PM	I dunno, that a fair amount of dedication by two characters to specifically work together. I might include a few such encounters to make sure they are challenged, but Id certainly avoid making it a useless venture.
zorgling25 07-28-07, 05:00 PM	I dunno, that a fair amount of dedication by two characters to specifically work together. I might include a few such encounters to make sure they are challenged, but Id certainly avoid making it a useless venture. I wouldn't make EVERY encounter smash those two, but seeing as they would dominate the spotlight during encounters that they could sneak, I would try to balance between encounters where they dominate and those in which they fall into the background.
SephDragoon 07-28-07, 05:33 PM	As a DM, if I ever saw that, I'd start throwing more critical immune monsters the Player's way (or more darkness effects). That is kind of gay... punishing them for working well together. If you want to do something interesting, put them against many lower level enemies instead of one higher level one. Makes their tactic less world breaking, but doesn't make it impossible for them to work together.
zorgling25 07-28-07, 06:03 PM	That is kind of gay... punishing them for working well together. If you want to do something interesting, put them against many lower level enemies instead of one higher level one. Makes their tactic less world breaking, but doesn't make it impossible for them to work together. Its sort of an irrelevant issue for me, since I don't know where Savvy Rogue is from, and I don't have the book. I usually don't allow material from books that I don't own. Still, its not that I'm punishing them for working well together. I guess it sort of depends on the other members of the party. If their methods are detracting from the fun of everyone else in the party, its the job of the DM to provide encounters that can be fun for everyone. I have to admit, come to think of it, that I like your idea better.
Twylyght 07-28-07, 06:27 PM	Something with uncanny dodge would cut the sneak attack damage too. I do stand on both sides of the issue. A DM should not target to nullify a players tactics or abilities most of the time. But sometimes its needed to preserve the sense of danger and let everyone have a chance to use their abilities. The biggest example would certainly be any rivals that are around. Someone who dealt with the party before and managed to survive would certainly be prepared the next time around. A rogue who has tailed the party, studied them, and done some research could certainly make a suprising challenge in his own right. Sometime, theres just going to be undead. As someone who played a Cleric with the sun domain in a campain that never had a single undead, and played a Cavalier in a campain that suddenly had only indoor combat after my first mounted lance crit. I have seen the low fun scenarios that pop up when its overdone. But done right, it can be the key ingredient to keeping the game rewarding and challenging for all.
kjenks 07-29-07, 09:54 AM	(Although I don't want to derail the discussion, I didn't want to let this pass without comment: I sent e-mail to SephDragoon about his socially inappropriate choice of words.)
SephDragoon 07-29-07, 03:41 PM	(Although I don't want to derail the discussion, I didn't want to let this pass without comment: I sent e-mail to SephDragoon about his socially inappropriate choice of words.) And I sent the reply back, life ain't fire... If you are offended, you need a tougher hide, because 90% of the time, people aren't going to be "nice" about it, especially if it is just a figure of speech like what I said.
zorgling25 07-29-07, 03:47 PM	And I sent the reply back, life ain't fire... If you are offended, you need a tougher hide, because 90% of the time, people aren't going to be "nice" about it, especially if it is just a figure of speech like what I said. You might want to look at this (http://boards1.wizards.com/community_coc.php). While your comment about my DMing practices are not personally offensive to me, you're walking a fine line in relation to some of those prohibited behaviors.
Dheran 07-29-07, 04:00 PM	Someone who dealt with the party before and managed to survive would certainly be prepared the next time around. A rogue who has tailed the party, studied them, and done some research could certainly make a suprising challenge in his own right. Enemies can find out things about the party through magic, too. Know Opponent and Know Vulnerabilities (both in Spell Compendium) are good for this.
SephDragoon 07-29-07, 07:36 PM	You might want to look at this (http://boards1.wizards.com/community_coc.php). While your comment about my DMing practices are not personally offensive to me, you're walking a fine line in relation to some of those prohibited behaviors. No, I'm not... it is a figure of speech, has nothing to do with sexual orientation, any more than being "cool" has to do with your temperature. Get over it, jesus christ!