Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Poopsie 02-06-05, 08:54 AM	Got a question concering Improved Overrun and Charing. We just finished up a session earlier tonight (well, this morning) that I DMed, and in the last battle I had a Dwarven Fighter try to use Improved Overrun as part of a Charge. My question is does this provoke and AoO from the opponent he's trying to overrun? On pg. 91 of the 3.5 PHB it says under the benifit collum. "+4 bonus on overrun attempts; no attack of opportunity." But then on pg. 96 where it describes the feat it makes no mention of it. Just that your opponent can't avoid you. And also in the Combat chapter pg. 157 it says as step one you provoke and AoO. And again it makes no mention of no AoO with imporved overrun. One thing we use is movement AoO rules from 3.0, that moving into or out of a threatened space provokes and AoO, and charging negates that from the opponent your charging(but not anyone else they run by). So I belive the player was thinking that wouldn't provoke an AoO from his overrun opponent (or he thought the feat gave that to him also). At the time I ruled it provoked an AoO from the guy and he ended up getting walloped and stuned for 13 rounds. (these were evil bystanders that they weren't supposed to attack, but they did anyway, even after I said these don't look like people you could hurt, *shrug* stubborn players) but he got mad because he thought thats not how it worked due to one of the reasons stated above. So how is this supposed to work? Thanks in advance for the help. Poopsie
ClementWillowbreaker 02-06-05, 09:39 AM	You cannot overrun as part of a charge. See the errata for the PHB- you have to delete all references (about 7 or 8) to overruning as part of a charge.
murte 02-06-05, 09:54 AM	Well, I read it this way, all the other Improved <Combat Special Actions> do not provoke an AoO, why would this one be different? However, who's to say the fella didn't have the Hold the Line ability? (CYA) But you still can't charge and overrun.
Poopsie 02-06-05, 11:40 PM	Thanks for the help. I haven't actually read the errata in a while and didn't notice that before. But I'm still wondering, by the books would the opponent still get an AoO with someone overruning him with Improved Overrun? I would assume yes from what I see but just want to double check. Thanks again Poopsie
tarkin 02-07-05, 11:30 AM	Where it says Charge NO refering to AoO it means that charging in and of itself does not cause an AoO. If your movement would give you an AoO, then the fact that you are charging does not in any way protect you, your opponent is entitled to take that AoO against you, even though you are charging. The ONLY ways to prevent AoOs from movment are: Feats like Spring Attack or Tumbling
Beware of Kobold 02-07-05, 03:39 PM	One thing we use is movement AoO rules from 3.0, that moving into or out of a threatened space provokes and AoO, and charging negates that from the opponent your charging(but not anyone else they run by). So I belive the player was thinking that wouldn't provoke an AoO from his overrun opponent (or he thought the feat gave that to him also). 3.0 is exactly the same as 3.5 in terms of provoking AoOs due to movement. There was no rule in 3.0 that stated that moving into a threatened square provoked and AoO. You simply read the rules wrong. The rules state that moving WITHIN or out of a threatened area provokes an AoO. This does not mean that moving into a threatened square provokes and AoO. This means that if you are in a threatened area (any square that an opponent threatens) and you move into any other square that the same opponent threatens, you provoke an AoO, which is sort of redundant with the rule that states you provoke an AoO if you move out of a threatened square, because in a sense you are moving out of a threatened square, but then moving into another one. It's not the moving into the threatened square that provokes the AoO, it's the moving out of the threatened square that does it. I repeat. 3.0 rules did not cause opponents to get AoOs on you just because you approached them (moved into a square they threatened)
Poopsie 02-08-05, 03:44 AM	Wow, well then. Looks like our group needs to have a talk bout that then. We all read it the wrong way, lol. And another friend of mine in a group did too. Oh well. We didn't use the 3.0 books too much before we switched, but I'll talk to them this week then see what they want to do. Thanks for pointing that out to me. Weeee fun times! Poopsie