Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gwapotroy 07-01-07, 12:04 AM	1) Although the rules say that a ranged weapon does not threaten adjacent squares, a bow could be used as an inprovised weapon. 2) If a grapple provokes an AoO, would a defender with a bow not get a chance to take an AoO because they did not have a "melee" weapon, even though you could use a bow as an inprovised weapon. Scenario, Character has a bow. Flying monster swoops down to start a grapple. Is the answer a or b? a) Character stands there and waits for grapple check because they don't happen to have a melee weapon at the time, and therefore gets no AoO. b) Charcter is allowed an AoO because they can use the bow as an improvised weapon taking a -4 to hit penalty. I would think that if a monster was trying to enter your square to grapple, and you had something in your hand, you would be allowed to swing at it. Thanks
mharb 07-01-07, 01:29 AM	I'd rule that you'd need a move action to switch to wielding the bow as an improvised weapon.
ShinAkuma2 07-01-07, 01:44 AM	Unless you specifically say you're using your bow as a melee weapon, there's no way you threaten with it. Keep in mind that an archer (indeed, any character) doesn't take his actions, then stand stock-still until his turn comes up. All actions happen more or less simultaneously, and so any of a mid-to-high-level archer's 3-5 shots are being made rapidly over the course of the round. As such, while he's being attacked, he's not even holding the bow in any way to make a melee attack; he's more likely drawing a bead on his next target.
Merestil Haye 07-01-07, 10:06 AM	Races of the Wild present a couple of items that can be used as bows or as melee weapons. I forget whether the text says it needs an action to shift back and forth. However, their existence suggests that normally you cannot use a bow as an improvised weapon without taking time to shift your grip.
equilibrium17 07-01-07, 10:07 AM	Ya, I'd require a Move Action, to switch from holding the bow as a ranged weapon, to switching to holding it as an improvised club or quarterstaff, and threatening adjacent squares. IIRC, there is a feat out there that specifically allows you to threaten adjacent squares while wielding a bow as a ranged weapon. I don't remember the name of it or which book it's from off the top of my head, tho.
jaelis 07-01-07, 10:12 AM	You could always wear armor spikes... that solves your problem anyway. Are there specific rules for using a bow as an improvised weapon? I'd be inclined to let you do it (given that armor spikes would work better), but the damage would be low and I'd say it breaks on a natural 1.
gwapotroy 07-01-07, 03:23 PM	Just curious because our DM was attacking my wife with a Dragon that was CR 9 and we were level 6. He seems to have an issue with women playing, I think. My wife is a beginner, and we wanted to start from level 1 so she could learn. He kept hitting us with no Crit monsters. All you need to stop a grapple, is hit and do damage. But later, I found out he didn't allow her to add the size bonus of +4 for the dragon's size. She would have won the grapple roll. She had a +12 on grapple. Improvised weapon rules says you can pretty much use anything as a weapon, chair leg, arrow, etc. The penalty is -4, but the AoO was the issue because we needed to know if she would be allowed to swing a bow as an imrovised because it says only melee weapons threaten squares. Her roll was high enough even with the penalty to hit. The issue was the AoO rule. After watching LOTR's, I don't know how many times, I think there should be some changes when it comes to ranged weapons, threatened squares, & AoO. I don't believe it should have to be a feat, I think it should be incorporated into a more real core rule. Otherwise all archers and crossbowmen will immediately be grappled in combat, and we know that doesn't really happen. Especially when there is only one monster fighting 5-6 opponents, who will all get A's oO on it if it gets a successful grapple. More like a suicide attack. thanks
The_sleeper1 07-01-07, 03:31 PM	Just curious because our DM was attacking my wife with a Dragon that was CR 9 and we were level 6. He seems to have an issue with women playing, I think. My wife is a beginner, and we wanted to start from level 1 so she could learn. He kept hitting us with no Crit monsters. All you need to stop a grapple, is hit and do damage. But later, I found out he didn't allow her to add the size bonus of +4 for the dragon's size. She would have won the grapple roll. She had a +12 on grapple. thanks I am confused is your wife a dragon or is she fighting a dragon?
Merestil Haye 07-01-07, 05:02 PM	Just curious because our DM was attacking my wife with a Dragon that was CR 9 and we were level 6. He seems to have an issue with women playing, I think. My wife is a beginner, and we wanted to start from level 1 so she could learn. He kept hitting us with no Crit monsters. All you need to stop a grapple, is hit and do damage.If the monster had either Improved Grapple or Improved Grab, there is no AoO in the first place. But that isn't relevant. If you are holding a bow, you do not threaten and therefore cannot take AoOs. Unless the bow is constructed specially to be usable as a melee weapon, or the wielder takes an action to grip the bow to use in melee. But later, I found out he didn't allow her to add the size bonus of +4 for the dragon's size. She would have won the grapple roll. She had a +12 on grapple.Creatures in a grapple get a size bonus based on their own size. The opponent's size has nothing to do with it. In any case, the only CR9 chromatic dragon is a Young Adult Black - which is Large. The dragon is the one with the +4 bonus. Improvised weapon rules says you can pretty much use anything as a weapon, chair leg, arrow, etc. The penalty is -4, but the AoO was the issue because we needed to know if she would be allowed to swing a bow as an imrovised because it says only melee weapons threaten squares.An improvised weapon still has to be picked up, and picking up an object is a move action. Her roll was high enough even with the penalty to hit. The issue was the AoO rule. After watching LOTR's, I don't know how many times, I think there should be some changes when it comes to ranged weapons, threatened squares, & AoO. I don't believe it should have to be a feat, I think it should be incorporated into a more real core rule. Otherwise all archers and crossbowmen will immediately be grappled in combat, and we know that doesn't really happen. Especially when there is only one monster fighting 5-6 opponents, who will all get A's oO on it if it gets a successful grapple. More like a suicide attack. thanksArchers don't get grappled by not being in melee. What was she doing getting close to melee? You're right in saying that everyone should get AoOs - everyone who threatens the dragon as it moves into the grappled creature's space. Dragons don't do grapples. They might snatch someone up and fly off It sounds to me like the rules were applied correctly, sorry. I can't comment on whether the DM likes women players or not (but if he doesn't more fool him).
Kouk 07-02-07, 02:03 AM	If you wear armor with spikes, or a spiked gauntlet, or you use the bowblades from Complete Scoundrel, you can make attacks of opportunity any time for relatively cheap. Some classes and spells allow you to threaten with your bow I believe, which would do more damage, but if you are an archer you wouldn't intentionally put yourself in that situation anyway, so spikes or a spiked gauntlet would do fine.