Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dvlsadvct 02-19-06, 12:19 PM	Is it possible to take an attack of opportunity on an attack of opportunity? Anyone got some RAW on this? For example a Wizard casts a spell while being threatened. The threat makes an unarmed AoO in which he is not proficient. So does this provoke an AoO from the wizard? How would this play out if it did?
fatal error 02-19-06, 12:28 PM	You can't make attack of oppertunities without a weapon. If yu don't have improved unarmed strike, you're not consider armed.
Zherog 02-19-06, 12:37 PM	Fatal is correct on the details. Let's alter the scenario, though. Instead of punching the wizard, the guy taking the AoO attempts to disarm the wizard of his material components. We'll also say the wizard is holding a dagger. So, wizard starts casting a spell and doesn't cast defensively. Our guy standing next to the wizard attempts to disarm the material components - but he doesn't have the Improved Disarm feat. So now our wizard gets an attack of opportunity. He attempts to stab the poor sod standing there. Each of these resolve in reverse order. So, first the wizard attempts to stab, but he misses. Next, the other guy attempts to disarm our wizard; however, his disarm attempt fails, and so now our wizard finally gets to cast his spell. Many of those events could end the chain before we reach the end. For example, if the wizard hits with his dagger, the disarm attempt automatically fails, leaving the wizard free to cast his spell. If the disarm attempt is successful, the wizard will be unable to cast his spell, since he no longer holds the material components. For a reference, there's a "Rules of the Game" article series on the main website; if you dig that up, there's a reference in there about the chain AoO.
dvlsadvct 02-19-06, 12:55 PM	If yu don't have improved unarmed strike, you're not consider armed. Nice catch, I dont know what I was thinking. For a reference, there's a "Rules of the Game" article series on the main website; if you dig that up, there's a reference in there about the chain AoO. I found it, thanks. Wierd, though. Two foes with combat expertise and high dex bonuses make for a really long action.
Zherog 02-19-06, 05:37 PM	They can, yeah - if they keep doing different things that provoke. I've only ever seen the chain thing come up once, and then it was only 3 events long - somebody moved past my monk, my monk attempted to trip (without the Improved Trip feat), and the original target responded by trying to stab me.
Nom 02-19-06, 08:12 PM	Comment: if you are tempted to house rule this away, don't rule that an attack that normally provokes an AoO doesn't if used to make an AoO. Design wise, it removes what is supposed to be a liability and thus encourages players to try to manufacture opportunities so that the attacks can be used. It also feels silly that a reactive counter-disarm (for example) is somehow "safer" than a deliberate disarm attempt. Modelling wise, the threaten rules assume a latent degree of combat activity that can turn into extra attack opportunities with an opponent lets his guard down. Allowing the character making the extra attack to perform an action that also obliges them to let their guard down doesn't really preserve the model. A better house rule is that a character cannot use an attack form that provokes an AoO (from the target) during an AoO.