AoO's [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

AoO's [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ian0311
11-22-07, 09:27 PM Do they interrupt unarmed attacks or ranged attacks in melee? Either the rules weren't clear on that matter or I actually was dumb enough to read over it without actually seeing it.
Salla
11-22-07, 09:37 PM They occur immediately before the ranged or unarmed attack, but do not inherently interrupt it. If you knock the opponent out, or disarm or sunder his ranged weapon with your AoO, however, then you have effectively 'interrupted' the attack.
ChainLink
11-23-07, 12:16 AM They occur immediately before the ranged or unarmed attack, but do not inherently interrupt it.

Methinks you confuse "interrupt" with "cancel".

By definition, AoOs interrupt whatever is causing the AoO. It won't cancel the provoking action, however, unless it somehow causes the provoking action to become impossible to perform (such as KOing the attacker, or destroying his weapon as Salla suggested).
Cifer
11-23-07, 07:28 AM @Chainlink
That is incorrect - there are several actions that specify they are lost if the AoO that is triggered by them hits/deals damage. As Salla correctly noted, ranged attacks and unarmed attacks are not part of them.
If the defender’s attack of opportunity deals any damage, your disarm attempt fails.

If the attack of opportunity deals damage, the grapple attempt fails.
Salla
11-23-07, 02:17 PM Methinks you confuse "interrupt" with "cancel".

By definition, AoOs interrupt whatever is causing the AoO. It won't cancel the provoking action, however, unless it somehow causes the provoking action to become impossible to perform (such as KOing the attacker, or destroying his weapon as Salla suggested).

Good point. I always think of the word 'interrupt' in the way it's used when you interrupt someone talking; you cut them off and prevent them from finishing.
ChainLink
11-24-07, 04:29 AM @Chainlink
That is incorrect - there are several actions that specify they are lost if the AoO that is triggered by them hits/deals damage. As Salla correctly noted, ranged attacks and unarmed attacks are not part of them.

It's not incorrect. You've cited specific exceptions to a general rule.

That's like if I said murder was illegal, and you cited self defense as the proof that murder is not illegal.

A specific contradiction does not disprove a general statement, especially in a game where the specific contradictions are purposely there to make the game interesting.
Cifer
11-24-07, 06:20 AM That's like if I said murder was illegal, and you cited self defense as the proof that murder is not illegal.
Not quite. Murder already implies it isn't self-defense.

A better analogy would be you saying that "Killing is illegal", to which could be correctly replied "No - not all killing is illegal. Self-Defence for example isn't." It's the same way you can disprove a universal proposition: Provide a counterexample.

Of course, there are situations where the exceptions to the generic rules are so uncommon that one doesn't bother mentioning them, but since AoO rules have several such exceptions (disarming, grappling, casting would be the first to come to my mind) making a blanket statement is not a good idea here.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ian0311 11-22-07, 09:27 PM	Do they interrupt unarmed attacks or ranged attacks in melee? Either the rules weren't clear on that matter or I actually was dumb enough to read over it without actually seeing it.
Salla 11-22-07, 09:37 PM	They occur immediately before the ranged or unarmed attack, but do not inherently interrupt it. If you knock the opponent out, or disarm or sunder his ranged weapon with your AoO, however, then you have effectively 'interrupted' the attack.
ChainLink 11-23-07, 12:16 AM	They occur immediately before the ranged or unarmed attack, but do not inherently interrupt it. Methinks you confuse "interrupt" with "cancel". By definition, AoOs interrupt whatever is causing the AoO. It won't cancel the provoking action, however, unless it somehow causes the provoking action to become impossible to perform (such as KOing the attacker, or destroying his weapon as Salla suggested).
Cifer 11-23-07, 07:28 AM	@Chainlink That is incorrect - there are several actions that specify they are lost if the AoO that is triggered by them hits/deals damage. As Salla correctly noted, ranged attacks and unarmed attacks are not part of them. If the defender’s attack of opportunity deals any damage, your disarm attempt fails. If the attack of opportunity deals damage, the grapple attempt fails.
Salla 11-23-07, 02:17 PM	Methinks you confuse "interrupt" with "cancel". By definition, AoOs interrupt whatever is causing the AoO. It won't cancel the provoking action, however, unless it somehow causes the provoking action to become impossible to perform (such as KOing the attacker, or destroying his weapon as Salla suggested). Good point. I always think of the word 'interrupt' in the way it's used when you interrupt someone talking; you cut them off and prevent them from finishing.
ChainLink 11-24-07, 04:29 AM	@Chainlink That is incorrect - there are several actions that specify they are lost if the AoO that is triggered by them hits/deals damage. As Salla correctly noted, ranged attacks and unarmed attacks are not part of them. It's not incorrect. You've cited specific exceptions to a general rule. That's like if I said murder was illegal, and you cited self defense as the proof that murder is not illegal. A specific contradiction does not disprove a general statement, especially in a game where the specific contradictions are purposely there to make the game interesting.
Cifer 11-24-07, 06:20 AM	That's like if I said murder was illegal, and you cited self defense as the proof that murder is not illegal. Not quite. Murder already implies it isn't self-defense. A better analogy would be you saying that "Killing is illegal", to which could be correctly replied "No - not all killing is illegal. Self-Defence for example isn't." It's the same way you can disprove a universal proposition: Provide a counterexample. Of course, there are situations where the exceptions to the generic rules are so uncommon that one doesn't bother mentioning them, but since AoO rules have several such exceptions (disarming, grappling, casting would be the first to come to my mind) making a blanket statement is not a good idea here.