AoO while in Full Defense? [Archive] - Wizards Community

AoO while in Full Defense? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Banaticus
07-27-06, 04:10 PM I have a character involved in an fight. He was squaring off with a bad guy. On my character's turn, he went full defensive (he has at least 5 ranks in tumble so he received a +6 bonus to his AC). On the bad guy's turn, the bad guy ran past my character to attack someone.

Normally, the way that the bad guy moved would trigger an attack of opportunity. But, my character was on full defensive at the time -- can he still make AoO's? If so, is there a penalty associated with the attack such like there would be if my character had only gone partially defensive?
Kusari_Gamer
07-27-06, 04:17 PM No, he gets no AOO.

I don't have PHBII in front of me but I believe there is a feat in there that would be just what you need.
bondious
07-27-06, 04:20 PM But, my character was on full defensive at the time -- can he still make AoO's?

Here we go...

Total Defense
You can defend yourself as a standard action. You get a +4 dodge bonus to your AC for 1 round. Your AC improves at the start of this action. You can’t combine total defense with fighting defensively or with the benefit of the Combat Expertise feat (since both of those require you to declare an attack or full attack). You can’t make attacks of opportunity while using total defense.

...and there you have it. Sorry, Banaticus, but no.
ShinAkuma2
07-27-06, 05:51 PM Basically, during combat, you aren't just making one attack, then standing there until your next turn, ala Final Fantasy. Combat is fluid, and during the whole round, you're constantly on the move, jabbing, thrusting, parrying, etc. Your attack rolls represent the damage your efforts have caused over the course of that round.

An Attack of Opportunity is a, well, opportunity to make more of your attacks count thanks to a lapse in your opponent's defenses.

However, if you're going total defensive, you're not attacking at all that round, which means you can't even take any chances to swing when an opponent is otherwise opening himself to attack.

May you never forget this rule again! :D
Dark Brandon
07-27-06, 06:05 PM No, he gets no AOO.

I don't have PHBII in front of me but I believe there is a feat in there that would be just what you need.

Active Shield defense.
You need to be proficient with the shield and have shield specialization.
With this feat, you can fight defensivly and not take an attack penalt as long as you are using a shield
You also still threaten areas around you when taking total defence, but when you take your AOO, you are at a -4 penalty. You need to be using a shield for this.
Millennium
07-27-06, 06:26 PM Nope; no attacks of opportunity.

An AoO is, for all intents and purposes, exactly like a normal melee attack except that you take it at an unusual time. If for whatever reason you cannot attack, you cannot take AoOs either.
StevenO
07-27-06, 08:45 PM If you have the INT for it, Combat Expertise can also help ensure the AoO. Why? Because instead of Total Defense you Use Combat Expertise and possibly Fighting Defensively for your AC boost instead.
Banaticus
07-28-06, 02:54 PM Yeah, we were attempting to run away, so I thought, "Heck, I get one more point of AC if I go full defensive instead of fighting defensively with combat expertise so why not?"

Next level, though, I get one more point of BAB that I can use with Combat Expertise -- once that happens, I'll never go full defensive again.
Finarin Panjoro
07-28-06, 04:51 PM Combat expertise maxes out at a +5 bonus to AC. Due to your tumble ranks you still will have a higher AC when using total defense.
Arvagor
07-28-06, 06:19 PM Fight defensively + 5 or more ranks of tumble = +3 dodge bonus to AC, -4 Atk

[above] + full combat expertise (-5 BAB, +5 dodge AC) = +8 dodge bonus to AC, -9 Atk

Total defense + 5 or more ranks of tumble = +6 dodge bonus to AC, NO attacks

Fighting defensively + combat expertise is always better than total defense (IMO), because 1) you can jack the dodge bonus to AC up higher, and 2) even though you may not be able to hit worth #@!&, you continue to threaten squares around you (meaning you also provide flanking when appropriate).
ShinAkuma2
07-28-06, 06:20 PM Combat expertise maxes out at a +5 bonus to AC. Due to your tumble ranks you still will have a higher AC when using total defense.

And then he adds Fighting Defensively and blows Total Defense out of the water.
Banaticus
07-28-06, 06:46 PM Except when you realize that my character is a 3rd level character with a +2 BAB and, right now, Full Defense gives +1 more AC. But, as of next level... no more Full Defense ever again.
StevenO
07-28-06, 10:12 PM I guess I should have said if you have the INT "and BAB" for it....

Until you hit 3rd level (minimum) you'll get more AC from Total Defense but once you get a +3 BAB and Combat Expertise you can get as good a defence by using CE and Fighting Defensively.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Banaticus 07-27-06, 04:10 PM	I have a character involved in an fight. He was squaring off with a bad guy. On my character's turn, he went full defensive (he has at least 5 ranks in tumble so he received a +6 bonus to his AC). On the bad guy's turn, the bad guy ran past my character to attack someone. Normally, the way that the bad guy moved would trigger an attack of opportunity. But, my character was on full defensive at the time -- can he still make AoO's? If so, is there a penalty associated with the attack such like there would be if my character had only gone partially defensive?
Kusari_Gamer 07-27-06, 04:17 PM	No, he gets no AOO. I don't have PHBII in front of me but I believe there is a feat in there that would be just what you need.
bondious 07-27-06, 04:20 PM	But, my character was on full defensive at the time -- can he still make AoO's? Here we go... Total Defense You can defend yourself as a standard action. You get a +4 dodge bonus to your AC for 1 round. Your AC improves at the start of this action. You can’t combine total defense with fighting defensively or with the benefit of the Combat Expertise feat (since both of those require you to declare an attack or full attack). You can’t make attacks of opportunity while using total defense. ...and there you have it. Sorry, Banaticus, but no.
ShinAkuma2 07-27-06, 05:51 PM	Basically, during combat, you aren't just making one attack, then standing there until your next turn, ala Final Fantasy. Combat is fluid, and during the whole round, you're constantly on the move, jabbing, thrusting, parrying, etc. Your attack rolls represent the damage your efforts have caused over the course of that round. An Attack of Opportunity is a, well, opportunity to make more of your attacks count thanks to a lapse in your opponent's defenses. However, if you're going total defensive, you're not attacking at all that round, which means you can't even take any chances to swing when an opponent is otherwise opening himself to attack. May you never forget this rule again! :D
Dark Brandon 07-27-06, 06:05 PM	No, he gets no AOO. I don't have PHBII in front of me but I believe there is a feat in there that would be just what you need. Active Shield defense. You need to be proficient with the shield and have shield specialization. With this feat, you can fight defensivly and not take an attack penalt as long as you are using a shield You also still threaten areas around you when taking total defence, but when you take your AOO, you are at a -4 penalty. You need to be using a shield for this.
Millennium 07-27-06, 06:26 PM	Nope; no attacks of opportunity. An AoO is, for all intents and purposes, exactly like a normal melee attack except that you take it at an unusual time. If for whatever reason you cannot attack, you cannot take AoOs either.
StevenO 07-27-06, 08:45 PM	If you have the INT for it, Combat Expertise can also help ensure the AoO. Why? Because instead of Total Defense you Use Combat Expertise and possibly Fighting Defensively for your AC boost instead.
Banaticus 07-28-06, 02:54 PM	Yeah, we were attempting to run away, so I thought, "Heck, I get one more point of AC if I go full defensive instead of fighting defensively with combat expertise so why not?" Next level, though, I get one more point of BAB that I can use with Combat Expertise -- once that happens, I'll never go full defensive again.
Finarin Panjoro 07-28-06, 04:51 PM	Combat expertise maxes out at a +5 bonus to AC. Due to your tumble ranks you still will have a higher AC when using total defense.
Arvagor 07-28-06, 06:19 PM	Fight defensively + 5 or more ranks of tumble = +3 dodge bonus to AC, -4 Atk [above] + full combat expertise (-5 BAB, +5 dodge AC) = +8 dodge bonus to AC, -9 Atk Total defense + 5 or more ranks of tumble = +6 dodge bonus to AC, NO attacks Fighting defensively + combat expertise is always better than total defense (IMO), because 1) you can jack the dodge bonus to AC up higher, and 2) even though you may not be able to hit worth #@!&, you continue to threaten squares around you (meaning you also provide flanking when appropriate).
ShinAkuma2 07-28-06, 06:20 PM	Combat expertise maxes out at a +5 bonus to AC. Due to your tumble ranks you still will have a higher AC when using total defense. And then he adds Fighting Defensively and blows Total Defense out of the water.
Banaticus 07-28-06, 06:46 PM	Except when you realize that my character is a 3rd level character with a +2 BAB and, right now, Full Defense gives +1 more AC. But, as of next level... no more Full Defense ever again.
StevenO 07-28-06, 10:12 PM	I guess I should have said if you have the INT "and BAB" for it.... Until you hit 3rd level (minimum) you'll get more AC from Total Defense but once you get a +3 BAB and Combat Expertise you can get as good a defence by using CE and Fighting Defensively.