Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alteru 04-13-05, 10:51 PM	What would be the total +bonus(counting magic and attack bonus) you would think of for a 13th level character?
JadeSpider9643 04-14-05, 01:54 AM	well it depends of course, did the party of 6 give you the big uber sword they just got after a major campaign quest? Or are you a wizard and unconcerned with weapons, devoting your resources towards OTHER magic items. Even a level 13 fighter might be of the mind that good armor is more important than a powerful weapon. If he puts all his resources into the biggest best armor he can, then he won't have a very powerful weapon. Alternitively you can be a complete kamakasie barbarian with an incredible weapon, wearing a loin cloth (Conan style) I can tell you that with 110,000gp for a starting level 13 PC, you can get a +7 weapon with 10k+ left to spend. Alternatively you could easily be weilding a +1 Weapon for around 2000gp and 100k worth of armor and magic items.
Bopple 04-14-05, 02:04 AM	You can't have any single item of value more than your half total wealth.
JadeSpider9643 04-14-05, 02:08 AM	You can't have any single item of value more than your half total wealth. Really? says who? cause your gonna make my level 5 ranger very upset...she really loves her Longbow of Thundering
DM Zoc 04-14-05, 02:14 AM	Really? says who? cause your gonna make my level 5 ranger very upset...she really loves her Longbow of Thundering It's a suggested rule.
Bopple 04-14-05, 02:14 AM	I can't remember the page number, but it is in the core books. BTW, I also remember that there is a phrase, saying it should be one third, in the books.
Bopple 04-14-05, 02:21 AM	It's a suggested rule. Really? In my memory, it was not a suggested rule...
Bopple 04-14-05, 02:32 AM	I found a phrase suggesting it as one quarter of total wealth. I cannot remember where to find the phrase about half total wealth. But I am sure I saw it somewhere... *shrug*
Lord Psynister 04-14-05, 02:42 AM	I don't recall ever having found that rule in the DMG. If anybody does know where to find it, drop us a page number if you don't mind. As far as I know, it is a Suggested Rule. I had never heard about it, or even a suggestion towards it, until sometime last year I think.
DM Zoc 04-14-05, 02:52 AM	It's on the page that lists suggested character wealth by level. It's a suggestion that the DM might want to put a limit about what percentage of total wealth can be in a single item, and the suggestions are 1/2 or 1/4, or any other amount. It is designed to create less of a discrepency between character who start at low or high level; a character who starts at 1 and works up to 10 will have found many smaller items along the way, and probably doesn't have just one item that's worth 50K or so.
Lazzmaniandevil 04-14-05, 04:10 AM	There is also something about it in the "creating PCs above 1st level" section, on page 199 of the DMG. They suggest 1/4 of total wealth, or to limit it by category (minor, medium, major)
spyderfreek 04-14-05, 04:48 AM	I'm in a group of 18+ who's most powerful item is a +3 set of full plate (1 with 3 fighters in the group). So what is appropriate is relative to your world. Personally I think that 1/4 of total worth is a big load of malarkey. If big dumb Uber fighter guy wants to spend his wad on that GIGUNDO SUPER SWORD and have no armor to speak of, let him. He has to get to whatever is attacking him to be able to hit it with the GSS. Ranged attacks will rip him to shreds with no AC.
spyderfreek 04-14-05, 04:50 AM	18th level monk with AC 36, i got hit 5 out of 7 times by some nasty chains in 2 rounds. I would pay heftily for better bracers, amulet and ring. SO not being able to put more the 1/4 of my total into any one item would set me off like a tactical nuke in the NV desert!
DM Zoc 04-14-05, 05:41 AM	Personally I think that 1/4 of total worth is a big load of malarkey. If big dumb Uber fighter guy wants to spend his wad on that GIGUNDO SUPER SWORD and have no armor to speak of, let him. That's the thing, though. If you play the character straight from level 1 until level 18, you'll never get a big "wad" of cash. You'll get a few hundred here, and a few thousand there. If you don't spend it on little things along the way, then you probably won't make it to 18th level. Even more importantly, if you play the whole way, a lot of your cash value will come from what the DM decides to place as loot for you to find, and your DM will include some sort of gear that nobody wants; if you want to get your "ideal" gear, then you're going to take a price hit selling that for half value and then buying the new item at market cost.
babysamurai 04-14-05, 09:17 AM	I would say a maximum of +3 bonus and +2 magic.
kenichi 04-14-05, 09:30 AM	My character playing through the Dungeon magazine Adventure path just levelled to 13th level, we got a ton of money last week so I have been able to upgrade and purchase many things recently, fyi. I am playing a straight fighter 13 (not optimal, but he holds his own so far) and he up till I do my upgrades has the following: +1 holy longsword, +2 mithral fullplate, +1 animated hvy shield, and misc other equipment. After the load of cash I will probably be upgrading my equipment to add another +1 or equivalent to my sword, add light fortification to armor, and add death ward to my shield. So a 13th level character probably would have a +3-4 weapon.
spyderfreek 04-15-05, 04:35 AM	That's the thing, though. If you play the character straight from level 1 until level 18, you'll never get a big "wad" of cash. You'll get a few hundred here, and a few thousand there. If you don't spend it on little things along the way, then you probably won't make it to 18th level. Even more importantly, if you play the whole way, a lot of your cash value will come from what the DM decides to place as loot for you to find, and your DM will include some sort of gear that nobody wants; if you want to get your "ideal" gear, then you're going to take a price hit selling that for half value and then buying the new item at market cost. This could just be my point of view but..... We've run modules ever since I started playing in this new group, and the one thing we are never short on is cash. But my DM does not allow to buy magic, upgrades, or anything that is spectacular. (Even only minorly spectacular)... so what I have is this.... a bunch of high level characters with medicore eq and LOTS of cash.... I'd be willing to spend my money to get some eq..... Our DM has a hard time letting us have stuff that is not in the module. I think I need to send him an email.... I think I will tomorrow.
kenichi 04-15-05, 10:05 AM	Yeah, the whole point to giving money is so you can purchase items that your character wants without taking the 1/2 value hit for selling equipment that you don't want or can't use. So unless your DM gives you only equipment that you want to have or is useful to you and gives most of your treasure in that type of equipment it gets real hard if not impossible to be able to handle by the book encounters equal and a bit higher than your level. You could also look at having one of your spellcasters take some item creation feats so that you can make your own items (at a discount too!). Also point out to him the page in the DMG where it talks about the community size and what value of items are available for purchase there. A large city should be able to fund most items and a metropolis has or can produce nearly any item in the book.
tarkin 04-15-05, 10:31 AM	I think it is appropriate to have a weapon no more than 1/4. In part because it is generally FOOLISH to spend more than that. The pricing system of D&D is exponential. So that means to turn a +3 into a +4 costs a lot more than buying a +3 and a +1. Consider, you can buy a +5 weapon for 50,000. Or a +4 weapon for 32,000, and spend 16,000 gp on +4 Gloves of Strength, adding +2 to hit and +3 to damage for a two handed weapon, AND you have an extra 2,000 gp to spend on healing potions. Obviously, it makes more sense to do this. Generally, as a fighter type, I like to spend 1/4 of my cash on my weapon, 1/4 on my armor, and the rest on various items.
mvincent 04-15-05, 12:08 PM	To answer the original question: +4 seems like a good weapon bonus for a 13th level character a lot of your cash value will come from what the DM decides to place as loot for you to find, and your DM will include some sort of gear that nobody wants; if you want to get your "ideal" gear, then you're going to take a price hit selling that for half value and then buying the new item at market cost.The starting cash for higher level characters table takes that into account. If a player didn't expend any money as he gained levels, and kept all the gear he found, he would likely have a lot more than what the table would give him. Since selling gear is a common occurance, as is enhancing gear you already have (example: boosting a +2 weapon to +3 by paying the difference), it seems strange to limit the amount a player can spend on a single item from starting wealth. I think this might've more to protect new players (that don't realize diversification is more effective in D&D) and to keep the game from be lop-sided: When all you have is a +9 hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Lina_Inverse 04-15-05, 01:35 PM	a +1weapon with 2 points of special abilitys is about right.in general never ever buy pluses.ever.there worthless.you have a cleric right?
Vintus 04-15-05, 01:49 PM	+2 weapon with a +1 or a +2 enhancement. You might also consider paying for a special material for the weapon. As for going for the Ginormous Weapon, Armor, or Item just remember the old adage: "What the DM giveth, the DM taketh away"
mvincent 04-15-05, 02:20 PM	never ever buy pluses.ever.there worthlessThat's not entirely correct. For a power-attacking two-handed weapon, each plus equates to an average 3 extra damage points. While an extra d6 of energy damage might seem like more (i.e. +3.5 damage average), it is not as flexible. Additionally, the extra dice are not multiplied on a critical (which can happen quite often at higher levels). Same goes for other multipliers (lance charges, spirited charge, etc.), which are also likely to occur at higher levels (assuming you are playing well).
Sinon 04-15-05, 02:34 PM	I was not familiar with the half or a third or a quarter of your wealth rule; but I was told that items were restricted by caster level. A party with an average level of 13 should probably not have items with a caster level over 13. That would limit you to a +4 sword, right? Maybe someone lied to me. I haven't actually read that myself, now that I think about it.
tiercel 04-15-05, 08:11 PM	In general most DMs will require a 1/4 - of - your - wealth (or similar) rule when making an advanced character, but even if they don't, as has been pointed out, it's generally smarter to not pay exponentially more. To extend an earlier example, which would you rather have, as a fighter: a +5 sword, or a +4 sword and winged boots? I'd say at 13th level, a +4 weapon would be perfectly good. I don't think jumping up in price to +5 for an additional 18 000 gp is probably worth it, unless you absolutely need some expensive special quality. If you can connive someone into greater magic weaponing your weapon of choice every day, then something like a +1 merciful holy weapon (possibly made out of adamantine) is not a bad generic way to go. To be perfectly honest, it wouldn't be crazy to have a +3 weapon... you might be able to think of better things to do with the 14 000 gp than add +1 or a +1 equivalent to your weapon. Don't forget that this will change a bit if you are a two-weapon fighter. Addiitionally, you should probably have a secondary ranged weapon and at least one backup weapon, and if you are not heavily specialized in a single weapon your secondary weapons might be worth making significantly magical as well. (There are worse things than having a +1 merciful sap for city adventures, a +1 boot dagger, and a quiver full of specialized ammo for emergency, even if you are a melee type.)
Preternatural 04-15-05, 08:44 PM	For something like this, I find the Samurai's daisho enchantment chart in OA very useful to gauge about what's right for a standard Character Level to Weapon Bonus ratio. It says for 13th level, a samurai can get a maximum bonus of +5 for their katana, whether they are enchantment bonuses or special abilities. Of course this is for the samurai's primary weapon, and this is assuming this is what WotC sees as a standard power level for characters of that level. Or think of it this way, at level 13 a character is a decent portion beyond half of their career. Assuming a game takes the characters to 20th, an enchantment of +10 is the maximum pre-Epic weapon or armor a character can have. A weapon of +5 is half of that, and fits fairly well for a character at around half of maximum level. A +5 enchantment is 50,000 gp, so that's about half of the character's approximate total wealth. Another portion would go into armor, which is a bit cheaper. This can vary of course, depending on the campaign setting.
Teltharis 04-16-05, 10:51 AM	I personally believe that +4 or +5 would be about right. Now the trick is to decide just straight up +4 or +2 and some abilities. And as for not getting plusses, I don't know about you but I don't want to get ambushed and the cleric not have time to GMW my sword. BTW, if your looking for weapon abilities go for mage-bane(CA), works on so many things at high levels.