Post/Author/DateTime	Post
colyn kell 09-06-05, 05:33 PM	Hello everybody, I was just wondering if it was possible to put enchantment bonuses on Clothing and other non equipment items. For instance, can you have a +1 kitchen knife?
Edymnion 09-06-05, 05:40 PM	Clothes don't count as armor, so they can't recieve armor enchantments. The thing is, with this game, you can't half-do something. If something counts as something for one thing, it has to count as it for all things. For something to be able to act like armor, it has to BE armor. Even if you say clothes are armor with +0 AC, -0 check penalty, 0% ASF, no max Dex, etc, they still count as armor, which means duelists and monks have to run around naked or lose their powers. I do not allow clothes to be directly enchanted in my games. However, you COULD specially craft Bracers of Armor to fill a differant slot (which would increase their price) to look like clothes. You see, the whole point of classes not being able to use armor is a balance thing. If you let them just enchant their clothes, you run into balance issues that are hard to predict. But, if this is for a wizard or someone else that isn't specifically prohibited from wearing armor, you could always wear Padded Armor and call it reinforced clothing.
colyn kell 09-06-05, 05:44 PM	Yeah, I hadnt really thought about the implications of a Monk wearing enchanted clothing, I was thinking about it for an NPC Merchant who wont soil himself by wearing armor. I didnt think it was possible in the first place, but its always worth checking.
Nuntius128 09-06-05, 06:02 PM	Yeah, I hadnt really thought about the implications of a Monk wearing enchanted clothing, I was thinking about it for an NPC Merchant who wont soil himself by wearing armor. I didnt think it was possible in the first place, but its always worth checking. Well, Leather Armor(non-padded) really looks about as close to clothing that can be enchanted, IMHO. Smart bikers wear Leather Armor. :D
Shaken, not Stunned 09-06-05, 06:15 PM	You could, as a DM, simply make 0/0/0 +1 armor. Thistledown padded armor has an ASF of 0, and as such is excellent wizard-armor.
celloshane 09-06-05, 06:18 PM	It is possible to give clothing a +1 enhancement bonus, but only with the Magic Vestment spell.
Tony Vargas 09-06-05, 08:18 PM	You can certainly creat 'magical clothing' that gives a +1 armor bonus (not an enhancement bonus to armor), much like Bracers of Armor. You'd have to decide which 'slot' - shirt, vest, robe, or cloak, most likely - it actually takes up. Any item you care to enchant must be masterword, so +1 kitchen knives would be unusual (they'd have to be 'kitchen knives' crafted to be masterwork /weapons/), but a 'kitchen knife of flawless dicing' or some such might well exist.
Dragonsblood 09-06-05, 08:29 PM	Yes it is possible. It would be a +1 armor bonus to the shirt/vest slot and would not stack with magic armor (IE Leather Armor +1) or Bracers of Armor. Of course this would be more expensive because it is a less commonly used slot (vs Bracers of Armor which could be filled with dex bonus gloves instead).
Kavu Monarch 09-06-05, 08:48 PM	Or how about a 'Vest of Mage Armor'? Enchant a Masterwork Vest (Ya I know...) with the Mage Armor spell, and give it a number of uses per day, or if you really want to dish out the XP make it a constant effect. +1 shirt? Bah? Think Bigger! Vest of Mage Armor This magical vest provides the benefits as if the wearer had cast Mage Armor on themselves. Base Price: 3,500 gp Cost in XP: 140 Other Requirments: Craft Wonderous Item, Mage Armor Spell Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp* = 1 x 1 x 2,000 = 2,000 x 1.5 = 3,500 * = If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half. Kavu.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 09-06-05, 08:52 PM	Or how about a 'Vest of Mage Armor'? Enchant a Masterwork Vest (Ya I know...) with the Mage Armor spell, and give it a number of uses per day, or if you really want to dish out the XP make it a constant effect. +1 shirt? Bah? Think Bigger! Vest of Mage Armor This magical vest provides the benefits as if the wearer had cast Mage Armor on themselves. Base Price: 3,500 gp Cost in XP: 140 Other Requirments: Craft Wonderous Item, Mage Armor Spell Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp* = 1 x 1 x 2,000 = 2,000 x 1.5 = 3,500 * = If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half. Kavu. It costs more than that. In the case of bonuses to armor, attack, damage, and other such things, the spell price is not used. In the case of that Vest of Mage Armor, it'd be the bonus squared, times 1000, time 1.5 for it being in the wrong slot. So, it'd be 4^2 x 1000 x 1.5, or 24,000 gp.
Fiery_Overlord 09-06-05, 08:57 PM	Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values Effect................................Ba se Price................................... .Example Ability bonus (enhancement)...........Bonus squared x 1,000 gp..............Gloves of Dexterity +2 Armor bonus (enhancement).............Bonus squared x 1,000 gp.............+1 chainmail Bonus spell...........................Spell level squared x 1,000 gp.........Pearl of power AC bonus (deflection).................Bonus squared x 2,000 gp..............Ring of protection +3 AC bonus (other)1.....................Bonus squared x 2,500 gp..............Ioun stone, dusty rose prism Natural armor bonus (enhancement).....Bonus squared x 2,000 gp..............Amulet of natural armor +1 Save bonus (resistance)...............Bonus squared x 1,000 gp..............Cloak of resistance +5 Save bonus (other)1...................Bonus squared x 2,000 gp..............Stone of good luck Skill bonus (competence)..............Bonus squared x 100 gp................Cloak of elvenkind Spell resistance......................10,000 gp per point over SR 12; ......................................SR 13 minimum..........................Mant le of spell resistance Weapon bonus (enhancement)............Bonus squared x 2,000 gp.............+1 longsword Spell Effect...........................Base Price.................................Ex ample Single use, spell completion...........Spell level x caster level x 25 gp.......Scroll of haste Single use, use-activated..............Spell level x caster level x 50 gp.......Potion of cure light wounds 50 charges, spell trigger..............Spell level x caster level x 750 gp......Wand of fireball Command word...........................Spell level x caster level x 1,800 gp....Cape of the mountebank Use-activated or continuous............Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp2...Lantern of revealing Special................................B ase Price Adjustment............................Ex ample harges per day.........................Divide by (5 divided by charges per day).........Boots of teleportation Uncustomary space limitation3..........Multiply entire cost by 1.5......................Helm of teleportation No space limitation4...................Multiply entire cost by 2........................Ioun stone Multiple different abilities...........Multiply higher item cost by 2...................Helm of brilliance Charged (50 charges)...................1/2 unlimited use base price.....................Ring of the ram Component..............................E xtra Cost.................................... ...Example Armor, shield, or weapon...............Add cost of masterwork item......................+1 composite longbow Spell has material component cost......Add directly into price of item per charge5......Wand of stoneskin Spell has XP cost......................Add 5 gp per 1 XP per charge5....................Ring of three wishes Spell Level: A 0-level spell is half the value of a 1st-level spell for determining price. 1 Such as a luck, insight, sacred, or profane bonus. 2 If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half. 3 See Body Slot Affinities, below. 4 An item that does not take up one of the spaces on a body costs double. 5 If item is continuous or unlimited, not charged, determine cost as if it had 100 charges. If it has some daily limit, determine as if it had 50 charges. MAGIC ITEM GOLD PIECE VALUES Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to match the new item to an item that is already priced that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values. Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don’t take up space on a character’s body use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus one-half the value of any other abilities. Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that do take up a space on a character’s body each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price. 0-Level Spells: When multiplying spell levels to determine value, 0- level spells should be treated as 1/2 level. Other Considerations: Once you have a final cost figure, reduce that number if either of the following conditions applies: —Item Requires Skill to Use: Some items require a specific skill to get them to function. This factor should reduce the cost about 10%. —Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the cost by 30%. Prices presented in the magic item descriptions (the gold piece value following the item’s caster level) are the market value, which is generally twice what it costs the creator to make the item. Since different classes get access to certain spells at different levels, the prices for two characters to make the same item might actually be different. An item is only worth two times what the caster of lowest possible level can make it for. Calculate the market price based on the lowest possible level caster, no matter who makes the item. Not all items adhere to these formulas directly. The reasons for this are several. First and foremost, these few formulas aren’t enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth. The formulas only provide a starting point. The pricing of scrolls assumes that, whenever possible, a wizard or cleric created it. Potions and wands follow the formulas exactly. Staffs follow the formulas closely, and other items require at least some judgment calls. BODY SLOT AFFINITIES Each location on the body, or body slot, has one or more affinities: a word or phrase that describes the general function or nature of magic items designed for that body slot. Body slot affinities are deliberately broad, abstract categorizations, because a hard-and-fast rule can’t cover the great variety among wondrous items. You can use the affinities in the list below to guide your decisions on which magic items should be allowed in which body slots. And when you design your own magic items, the affinities give you some guidance for what form a particular item should take. Some body slots have different affinities for different specific items. Body Slot............Affinity Headband,helmet......Mental improvement, ranged attacks Hat..................Interaction Phylactery...........Morale, alignment Eye lenses, goggles..Vision Cloak, cape, mantle..Transformation, protection Amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, scarab......Protection, discernment Robe.................Multiple effects Shirt................Physical improvement Vest, vestment.......Class ability improvement Bracers..............Combat Bracelets............Allies Gloves...............Quickness Gauntlets............Destructive power Belt.................Physical improvement Boots................Movement The question is +1 to what? Personally I like the idea of a ruffled shirt that gives bonuses to Bluff and Diplomacy, a hat with a feather would be better suited though.
Kavu Monarch 09-06-05, 08:57 PM	Ahh, but the spell Mage Armor has another effect that would counter your arguement. It is a force effect, thus it still works against incorporeal creatures and the such. Therefor it is a spell effect, not just a Armor bonus. Kavu.
Edymnion 09-06-05, 09:02 PM	Ahh, but the spell Mage Armor has another effect that would counter your arguement. It is a force effect, thus it still works against incorporeal creatures and the such. Therefor it is a spell effect, not just a Armor bonus. Kavu.And if you read the guidelines, mage armor is specifically mentioned as being an example of when the guidelines don't work. You price the effect, not how you got it. Mage armor gives +4 AC, so you price it as a +4 to your AC, not a first level spell. Just like an Item of True Strike gets priced as +20 to hit, not a first level spell.
Fenris Frost 09-06-05, 09:44 PM	For those who support the arguement of no masterwork clothing so no enhanced clothing, I feel that noble's clothing etc, could be considered masterwork.
chronocrosselite 09-06-05, 09:48 PM	why couldnt a shirt be masterwork, you can argue that a good tailor can make a high quality shirt out of expensive cloths.
Kavu Monarch 09-06-05, 09:55 PM	Alright fine. Let's refine it. Vest of Mage Armor as a Command Word Activated Wondrous Item. 1 x 1 x 1800 = 1800gp cost x 4% = 72 XP The casting of Mage Armor lasts for 1 hour each time. By the way, I've gone through the Magic Items I (Basics and Creation) SRD file, and there is no specific mention of Mage Armor. Kavu.
Edymnion 09-06-05, 10:02 PM	Alright fine. Let's refine it. Vest of Mage Armor as a Command Word Activated Wondrous Item. 1 x 1 x 1800 = 1800gp cost x 4% = 72 XPNo, you are still getting +4 to AC, you still price it as a +4 to AC item. The fact it only lasts for an hour doesn't matter, because you have no limit on how many times you can use it, so you just reactivate it when it runs out. There is no way of getting around this. You price the effect, not how you got it. It doesn't matter if you use a first level spell or a 9th level spell, if the effect is +4 to AC, then it should cost 16,000 gold. Anything else you do to it, like limiting duration or uses per day, will only modify that 16k baseline. Period.By the way, I've gone through the Magic Items I (Basics and Creation) SRD file, and there is no specific mention of Mage Armor.Thats because the SRD is a stripped down version of the rules. You have to actually read the books to get the full information. SRD is a quick online referance, not a replacement for the rules.
Kavu Monarch 09-06-05, 10:06 PM	I'll have to look that up when I get home, because that's not how I understood it. Same with any other DM I've ever talked with, or played under. Kavu.
Cadfan 09-06-05, 10:07 PM	You could make magical armored clothing if you wanted to. Keep in mind, however, that if the players use it they can mess with certain classes. A monk using magical armored clothing now has one more item slot available for a wrist item, because he no longer needs bracers of armor. Wrists can be used for plenty of other effects, so you've powered up monks, wizards, sorcerors, and anyone who doesn't use armor.
Edymnion 09-06-05, 10:17 PM	I'll have to look that up when I get home, because that's not how I understood it. Same with any other DM I've ever talked with, or played under. Kavu.The stuff in the 3.0 DMG is pretty light on the rules. If you want to look up how the guidelines work, you gotta go to the original printing, Tome & Blood. The formulas get changed a bit, but the instructions on how to use the guidelines are still solid.
Journeyman Samwise 09-06-05, 10:19 PM	Yes, but only if they're made by followers of Kleinvinism and worn by Clerics of the selfsame faith. Calvin Klein's domain ability is "Ruggedly Handsome Clothing: +1 to AC and all saves vs. sex appeal". Very rawr, baby!
Kavu Monarch 09-06-05, 10:29 PM	Now that is cute. Kavu.
Journeyman Samwise 09-06-05, 10:49 PM	You mean "Ruggedly Handsome", right?
RavenDrake 09-06-05, 11:55 PM	No, you are still getting +4 to AC, you still price it as a +4 to AC item. The fact it only lasts for an hour doesn't matter, because you have no limit on how many times you can use it, so you just reactivate it when it runs out. The item in question is not Providing an AC bonus specifically. It's creating a Spell Effect. It's casting the spell "Mage Armour" onto you as a command word item. You don't price a Wand of Mage Armour according to AC bonus, do you? It's not an Armour Item, it's a command word item. *IF* it was a continuous effect, then yes it would be figured like you say.
Someone 09-07-05, 12:53 AM	I agree with the sentiment of simply taking bracers of armor and reworking them as a "robe of armor". If I'm not mistaken, a robe of the archmagi provides an armor bonus in this manner (among its powers). Likewise, I would say there should be a better distinction between items that cast the spell (and have to abide by all of the spells mechanics) and items that use the spell as the basis for their effect (e.g. using true strike as the component spell for an item that grants an insight bonus).
Tyler Do'Urden 09-07-05, 01:22 AM	1) Edymnion already covered the actual source of clothing with an armor bonus: they're bracers of armor made to fill a different slot (vest, robe, or possibly even pants). 2) Idunno if you've ever noticed this but anyone can wear padded or leather armor. Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks. If you check the Armor section of the Equipment chapter, you'll notice that padded and leather armors (and masterwork studded leather for that matter) have an armor check penalty of 0. If you're worried about Spell Failure, just get magic padded armor. It's only 5%; the same chance as rolling a 1. If you're a monk, just get the standard bracers and leave us alone.
Kavu Monarch 09-07-05, 02:02 AM	Thank you RavenDrake, you understand what I'm saying. And I have arrived at home and read through the 3.5 DMG, and I am finding NO reference to the spell Mage Armor specifically. So I dont' know where that is being pulled from. Hell you want me to make the Vest of Mage Armor even more limited? Sure why the hell not?! Vest of Mage Armor (Command Word 2/day) 1 x 1 x 1800 = 1800 (Spell level x Caster Level x Command Word = Base Price) 1800 / 2.5 = 720 (Base Price / Times per day forumla = New Base) 720 + 50% = 1080 (New Base + Non-affinity = Final base) Raw Materials: 540 Xp Cost: 43 So there. Kavu.
Ezell Pike 09-07-05, 11:11 AM	No, you are still getting +4 to AC, you still price it as a +4 to AC item. The fact it only lasts for an hour doesn't matter, because you have no limit on how many times you can use it, so you just reactivate it when it runs out. There is no way of getting around this. You price the effect, not how you got it. It doesn't matter if you use a first level spell or a 9th level spell, if the effect is +4 to AC, then it should cost 16,000 gold. Anything else you do to it, like limiting duration or uses per day, will only modify that 16k baseline. Period.Thats because the SRD is a stripped down version of the rules. You have to actually read the books to get the full information. SRD is a quick online referance, not a replacement for the rules. Why not use shield instead?
Keenath 09-07-05, 04:05 PM	The item in question is not Providing an AC bonus specifically. It's creating a Spell Effect. It's casting the spell "Mage Armour" onto you as a command word item. You don't price a Wand of Mage Armour according to AC bonus, do you? It's not an Armour Item, it's a command word item.No, it's a SPELL TRIGGER item, and it has charges. That is an entirely different set of problems. The charges are important. A wand at 1st level can mage armor you for a total of 50 hours over its lifetime. If you armor yourself for eight hours each day, it's good for a bit under a week. Moreover, only a wizard or sorcerer can trigger it, or a rogue/bard with some UMD ranks. Contrast that to an item of mage armor. Continuous? +4 armor all day every day forever. Unlimited command word? Trigger it each hour, and it's all day every day for essentially the same ability. The fact that it comes from a spell is not the point. The 'as spell' is the last resort, not the first. You always use it by bonus first, and by spell only if the bonus is somehow undefined. Do you see a Belt of Giant Power being priced as an always-on Bull's Strength? NO! It's priced by the bonus you get. I can go on. Just below the table, in the SRD, it explains precisely how to use the table: "Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to match the new item to an item that is already priced that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values." Your shirt that gives AC +4 is already covered. Bracers of Armor do that. By the way, you might notice that Bracers of Armor are already force effects, just like Mage Armor: "These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force." You can complain if you like, but that's the way things are.
Kavu Monarch 09-07-05, 08:45 PM	So your telling me that the Bracers of Armor and the Shirt of Armor would cost the exact same to make? Kavu.
Bopple 09-07-05, 08:53 PM	Mage Armor effect for 2hrs per day, is almost as powerful as a pair of Bracers of Armor +4. Thus, it should be priced similarly(though not as much), not as the base-guideline price. That's the way it works. If a DM doesn't treat it as such, he is good neither at ruling, nor at balancing.
Argaud 09-07-05, 10:35 PM	Normal clothes can be enchanted to offer armor bonus to AC (and other kinds of defenses that enchanted armors can bestow, like SR). For instance: Robe of the Archmagi: This normal-appearing garment can be white (01-45 on d%, good alignment), gray (46-75, neither good nor evil alignment), or black (76-100, evil alignment). Its wearer, if an arcane spellcaster, gains the following powers. • +5 armor bonus to AC. • Spell resistance 18. • +4 resistance bonus on all saving throws. • +2 enhancement bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance. If a white robe is donned by an evil character, she immediately gains three negative levels. The reverse is true with respect to a black robe donned by a good character. An evil or good character who puts on a gray robe, or a neutral character who dons either a white or black robe, gains two negative levels. While these negative levels never result in lost levels, they remain as long as the garment is worn and cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells). Strong varied; CL 14th; Craft Wondrous Item, antimagic field, mage armor or shield of faith, creator must be of same alignment as robe; Price 75,000 gp;Weight 1 lb.
Lotus Crane 09-08-05, 01:34 AM	Kavu: When in doubt, items are priced using whichever guidelines would make them most expensive, unless an existing published item shows an exception. The chart in the DMG that refers to specific effects (specific +# bonus to attack, saves, AC) takes precedence over the spell effect price formula, especially for permanent effects rather than uses per day or limited charge items. Mage Armor provides a +4 armor bonus to AC, which falls under the category of "AC Bonus (other)," making the price 4x4x2500=40000 gp. Counting as a force effect and being able to stop incorporeal touch attacks would cost extra. However, since in this case there is an existing item that provides an exception (Bracers of Armor), we can instead use the "alternate slot" rule, which is 50% extra for another slot that makes sense, or 100% extra for a slot that doesn't make sense. In this case, since Bracers of Armor +4 cost 16000 gp, changing the effect to the shirt slot would make them cost 24000 gp. If you wanted to add Mage Armor's force effect against incorporeal touch attacks, it would cost extra. Another example of potentially broken items using the spell formula alone would be boots of continuous Longstrider providing a +10 enhancement bonus to speed for 2000 gp, or boots of continuous Expeditious Retreat, which would provide a +30 enhancement bonus to speed for a mere 4000 gp, both blowing away the DMG's Boots of Springing and Striding, which provide a +10 enhancement bonus to speed for 5500 gp. True, it also provides a +5 competence bonus to Jump, which would normally cost 2500 gp, but since it's an item combining similiar appropriate functions, we can guess that the +5 Jump portion was on discount for 1250 gp, or I suppose 1500 gp. That means that the +10 enhancement bonus to speed is by itself worth 4000 gp. Therefore, what we came up was an exponentially scaling (because like enhancement bonuses to ability scores, speed bonuses also get increasingly more useful the higher you make them) formula that included +10 speed for 4000 gp as an entry. Our table came out to: +5 speed = 1000 gp +10 speed = 4000 gp +15 speed = 9000 gp +20 speed = 16000 gp +25 speed = 25000 gp +30 speed = 36000 gp Look familiar? It should. But yeah, to avoid making brokenly overpowered items, which often disrupt a game much more than underpowered items, try to err on the side of caution, which in this case, is to make that "shirt of armor" more rather than less expensive, when there are several conflicting or unsure ideas about it.
pres_man 09-08-05, 02:16 AM	If you wanted to add Mage Armor's force effect against incorporeal touch attacks, it would cost extra. Bracers of Armor already give this, so an item that is basically bracers of armor in a different slot would as well.
chronocrosselite 09-08-05, 02:21 AM	Kavu: When in doubt, items are priced using whichever guidelines would make them most expensive, unless an existing published item shows an exception. The chart in the DMG that refers to specific effects (specific +# bonus to attack, saves, AC) takes precedence over the spell effect price formula, especially for permanent effects rather than uses per day or limited charge items. Mage Armor provides a +4 armor bonus to AC, which falls under the category of "AC Bonus (other)," making the price 4x4x2500=40000 gp. Counting as a force effect and being able to stop incorporeal touch attacks would cost extra. However, since in this case there is an existing item that provides an exception (Bracers of Armor), we can instead use the "alternate slot" rule, which is 50% extra for another slot that makes sense, or 100% extra for a slot that doesn't make sense. In this case, since Bracers of Armor +4 cost 16000 gp, changing the effect to the shirt slot would make them cost 24000 gp. If you wanted to add Mage Armor's force effect against incorporeal touch attacks, it would cost extra. Another example of potentially broken items using the spell formula alone would be boots of continuous Longstrider providing a +10 enhancement bonus to speed for 2000 gp, or boots of continuous Expeditious Retreat, which would provide a +30 enhancement bonus to speed for a mere 4000 gp, both blowing away the DMG's Boots of Springing and Striding, which provide a +10 enhancement bonus to speed for 5500 gp. True, it also provides a +5 competence bonus to Jump, which would normally cost 2500 gp, but since it's an item combining similiar appropriate functions, we can guess that the +5 Jump portion was on discount for 1250 gp, or I suppose 1500 gp. That means that the +10 enhancement bonus to speed is by itself worth 4000 gp. Therefore, what we came up was an exponentially scaling (because like enhancement bonuses to ability scores, speed bonuses also get increasingly more useful the higher you make them) formula that included +10 speed for 4000 gp as an entry. Our table came out to: +5 speed = 1000 gp +10 speed = 4000 gp +15 speed = 9000 gp +20 speed = 16000 gp +25 speed = 25000 gp +30 speed = 36000 gp Look familiar? It should. But yeah, to avoid making brokenly overpowered items, which often disrupt a game much more than underpowered items, try to err on the side of caution, which in this case, is to make that "shirt of armor" more rather than less expensive, when there are several conflicting or unsure ideas about it. ok if extra money is added for "balance" where is this mentioned in the item creation rules? im just curious i mean if it costs a specific number according to the rules to make something. then why would someone have to tak on more gold to the pricing. i understand a need for balance and i also think they should of considered this initially if there was possibility of debate...
Lotus Crane 09-08-05, 10:21 AM	For example, unlimited use healing items, while seemingly possible under the spell level pricing formula, are something that are almost unanimously agreed upon to be unbalancing. For example, according to the spell pricing formula, an item that granted unlimited uses of Cure Light Wounds would cost somewhere between 1500 and 2000 gp (the rules seem to be somewhat vague and redundant on this point), but the only unlimited-healing item is the Ring of Regeneration, which costs 90,000 gp and is arguably not even as useful as an item that provides unlimited Cure Light Wounds. That example alone shows that it's up to the DM to alter prices from the base formulas to maintain balance. But if you don't believe me, look at the sidebar on page 282 of the DMG 3.5. When in doubt, make it more rather than less expensive.
SirCaran 09-08-05, 02:56 PM	Thank you RavenDrake, you understand what I'm saying. And I have arrived at home and read through the 3.5 DMG, and I am finding NO reference to the spell Mage Armor specifically. So I dont' know where that is being pulled from. That is Because Mage Armor is in the PHB
RavenDrake 09-08-05, 11:18 PM	Yes, we're all aware the SPELL is in the PHB... he was referencing the particular point that someone made about the spell Mage Armour being called out as a specific example of not following the spell-item guidelines... Now, you do have to remember that this item has many drawbacks over an item like bracers of armour. First, since it's producing a spell effect it can be dispelled, and done so by even an area dispelling, whereas bracers of armour must be targeted directly. Also, activating such an item is a standard action, that provokes attacks of opportunity, as opposed to the bracer's "Always On" philosophy. Now, that said, an infinite use version of this item would never see light in my campaign. There are no INFINITE use magic items in my campaign world... there are always some limits... per day, charges, etc. However, a 3 or 5 per day use item of this type is hardly offbalancing...
Elgonn 09-08-05, 11:38 PM	Edymnion was right all the way back as the first response. Here is a quote that some people might find helpful since it isn't in the SRD. You can find it online here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050118a). Base Price and Market Price The rules offer you some help in this endeavor, but ultimately your own good judgment will prove the best guide. Assigning a market price to a magic item is covered in detail in Chapter 7 of the Dungeon Master's Guide. See Table 7-33. Items that provide simple bonuses to attacks, Armor Class, saving throws, or checks are fairly easy to evaluate. If your item doesn't provide any bonuses and has no clear spell analogy, try comparing it against similar items. If that's not helpful, consider the question of when you think it would be appropriate for a PC to have one of your items. Should he have it at 7th level? According to Table 5-1: Character Wealth by Level in the Dungeon Master's Guide, a 7th-level PC is assumed to have 19,000 gp of gear. A reasonable cost for a single item that such a character might own would be somewhere between 10% and 40% of the character's total wealth. In this case, that's 1,900 gp to 7,600 gp. Weapons, Armor, and Shields: Many weapon or armor qualities are not assigned a market price in cash, but they are instead priced as "+1 bonus", "+2 bonus," and so on. This was discussed in Part Four. You can use this system when the property directly affects the offense (hit chance or damage dealt) of a weapon, or the defense (likelihood of a hit or damage received) of an armor. Otherwise, your new weapon property should be priced as a no-slot item. For example, armor of Strength +4 shouldn't be priced as a +2 or +3 armor bonus; instead it should be priced as a +4 ability enhancement (+16,000 gp), doubled to +32,000 gp because it doesn't use up any item slots (see Table 7-33). Some Things to Avoid Keep in mind that the rules and advice in Chapter 7 of the Dungeon Master's Guide are intended to help a reasonable person estimate what an item is worth in play. It's always a mistake to try to create the most powerful item possible for the lowest possible price or vice versa. When the Formulas Fail: Table 7-33 provides the basic tool for determining item prices and costs, but many items don't fit the table. Many spells in the game work fine as spells, but spells come with built-in limits on their power, and chief among those is the simple fact that a spell is used up when cast and a character has only so many spells available each day. Many spells become world beaters when they're placed in items that work continuously or in items that can be reused over and over again. For example, a ring of invisibility is a command-activated item that duplicates a 2nd-level spell, and its caster level is 3rd (the minimum to cast the spell). According to Table 7-33, such an item has a cost of 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp (spell level x caster x 1,800 gp). So, a ring of invisibility costs 10,800 gp, right? Wrong, it costs nearly twice that much (20,000 gp) because an endless supply of invisibility spells are worth something extra. Use the Correct Formula: One item people frequently ask me about is a ring oftrue strike. The spell provides a whopping +20 insight bonus on attack rolls and negates miss chances arising from concealed targets. It's only 1st level, however, because it is a personal range spell with a duration of 1 round. That means you can normally manage one attack every 2 rounds when using the spell. Also, you can't bestow it on an ally (except for a familiar or animal companion) because of its personal range. Assuming such a ring worked whenever it was needed and has a caster level of 1st, it would cost a mere 2,000 gp by the formula for a use-activated spell effect (in this case, 1 x 1 x 2,000 gp). Sharp-eyed readers will note that any continuously functioning item has a cost adjustment of x4 (see the footnotes to Table 7-33), which bumps up the ring's cost to 8,000 gp. That's a real bargain for an item that provides so much boost to a user's combat power. Much too great a bargain. So, what would our example ring of true strike be worth? Insight bonuses aren't included on Table 7-33, but a weapon bonus has a cost equal to the bonus squared x 2,000 gp, so a +20 weapon would cost 800,000 gp. One can argue that the ring isn't quite as good as a +20 weapon because it doesn't provide a damage bonus. That, however, ignores the very potent ability to negate most miss chances. Also, the ring's insight bonus works with any sort of attack the wearer makes. On top of all that, the insight bonus stacks with any enhancement bonus from a magic weapon the wearer might wield. Still, 800,000 gp is a lot of cash and the lack of a damage bonus is significant, so some price reduction is in order. A 50% reduction might be in order, or 400,000 gp for the ring. Would you pay 400,000 gp for a ring of true striking? I would if I could afford it. At a price of 400,000 gp, our mythical ring of true strike is something only an epic-level character could afford. That's fine, because epic play is where the ring belongs.
Lia Nightdemon 09-10-05, 11:30 AM	Masterwork clothes are possible someone with craft taloring can make masterwork clothes if they can beat the DC of 20. Also I don't know why you people keep *****ing about things like this. Simple enough clothing can be enchanted. Except not as armor, they can be enchanted as wonderous items. You could say that instead of a robe of displacement you have pants of displacement (which takes the robe, mantle slot) ANd then you can have a shirt of resistence +5 (which takes the vest spot) the only left on you that is not enchanted is the undergarment and socks. socks would take the boot slot (if Dm allows magical socks) and the underwear and bra (females and strange males) would be a new slot that the DM has to approve first. If you want your clothes to have armor bonuses you'll have to get your DM to argee. And it's best to use the robe slot for this.
Someone 09-10-05, 12:18 PM	I'd say a thong of armor would occupy the "vest/ vestment/ shirt" body slot, as those sort of things are worn under other stuff like robes and suits of armor.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 09-10-05, 12:50 PM	Edymnion was right all the way back as the first response. Here is a quote that some people might find helpful since it isn't in the SRD. You can find it online here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050118a). Just as a note, the pricing for the Ring of True Strike is wrong. Since it uses an insight bonus, not an enhancement bonus, the cost should be multiplied by 1.5 (IIRC), making it either 1,200,000 gp or 600,000 gp. However, since the bonus is above +5, it's an epic item, multiplying the cost by 10. Final cost? 12,000,000 gp or 6,000,000 gp.
Elgonn 09-10-05, 03:43 PM	Just as a note, the pricing for the Ring of True Strike is wrong. I agree the pricing is wrong but the intent of the article was all I really cared about.
sooperspook 09-10-05, 11:23 PM	Actually there already exist official enchanted 'armoured' clothing. In one of the Faerun books i think. I personally have no problem with allowing it in my games. Doesnt seem anymore unbalancing than a necklace of Natural Armour or simillar. Btw.. the costing of the enchanted clothiing was the same as bracers of armour iirc.
kalstrand 09-12-05, 09:49 PM	It could possibly be more unbalancing if you allow it to be enhanced at the price of regular armor and not count as armor. This would allow it to stack with a Monk's AC bonus for next to nothing compared to a similar AC bump from Bracer's of Armor. If you price it like Bracer's of Armor it shouldn't be too unbalancing.