Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nephlite 04-01-07, 11:35 AM	I am wondering if Augmrent cryatala from Magic Item Comprehendruim are worth buying if cost 4x the price? My DM has declared this the cost. He believes they give too much for their cost. So the the crystals of energy assualt least that gives 1 elemental damage costs 2, 400 gold (originally 600). Is he right? I know I probably can't convince him otherwise (I've tried), but what do you think?
Mesiolan 04-02-07, 04:35 AM	My opinion is, that esp. the weapon crystals are VERY powerful compared to price. But I can't comment on a x4 or x2 factor. I have not yet playtested them. But I'll post anyway, 'cause I'd like to see other opinions here. So: BUMP on this thread.
ClementWillowbreaker 04-02-07, 11:15 AM	I would be applying an exponential increase centered a bit higher than the +1 damage ones, but that does seem a bit high. But in no way shape or form are augment crystals balanced with their listed prices.
Droma 04-02-07, 01:22 PM	you mean being able to sleep in my plate armor and dealing a point of extra dmg every attack for under 1000 gold isnt balanced?
Nephlite 04-02-07, 01:26 PM	you mean being able to sleep in my plate armor and dealing a point of extra dmg every attack for under 1000 gold isnt balanced? THe sleep one is nice but it competes with the Damage reduction one. Opportunity cost. A Torch does 1 energy damage (fire) and guantlet damage. But still for 6000 would be cost for +1 flaming, etc for a +1 weapon. These give 1/3rd average damage, but cost 40% of the cost. Now you have the possibility of exchanging it to another one unlike the weapon property, but that only thing.
RavenCorvus 04-02-07, 05:35 PM	aren't they suppost to be cheap so people actually use them
Iarmeister 04-02-07, 05:41 PM	Uhm...actually I don't believe that the Augment Crystals are over-priced. Remeber to take into consideration that the most powerful crystals can be attached to a weapon already considered a +3 magic weapon, for example. I don't have my book in front of me, and I'm at work, but I believe this is the correct case. I think it's only the least crystals that can be attached to mundane weapons.
Aggrenox 04-02-07, 05:43 PM	Your DM should *gasp* ACTUALY READ THE BOOK. The crystals are great.
Iarmeister 04-02-07, 06:38 PM	Sorry...I meant to summarize by saying that paying x4 for augment crystals is completely unwarranted.
Johannixx 04-03-07, 10:32 AM	One of our DMs has declared that augmentation crystals will cost 2x their listed price, and be subject to Sunder attacks. Of course, nobody in the party has a +3 or better weapon yet, so we can't use the greater crystals even if we could afford them. I think the crystals might be a bit overpowered as-is, but I haven't playtested them yet, so I'm reserving judgement.
Nephlite 04-03-07, 11:02 AM	Your DM should *gasp* ACTUALY READ THE BOOK. The crystals are great. I hope he agrees to someday. He only glanced at it and made his rash judgement. But thanks for agreeing that 4x is too much. Maybe I can at least get x3 (would be a better price).
Iarmeister 04-03-07, 01:44 PM	I reread what crystals can be placed on what kind of weapons, and it's even more limited than I first remembered: Least Crystals ~ masterwork quality weapons only Lesser Crystals ~ +1 Magic Weapons or higher Greater Crystals ~ +3 Magic Weapons or higher Now, please note that +1 or +3 needs to be a literal enhancement, for example a +1 Longsword or +3 Bastard Sword. When affixing a Greater Crystal to a magic weapon you could affix it to a +3 Speed Kukri, but not a +1 Vorpal Dagger. The +x "weapon" is what counts. This is a huge ruling, because it means that only at the higher levels will Augment Crystals be truly transferrable. So, I still hold firm that paying "x-anything" for list price is unreasonable; but that is my opinion, and not gospel truth for other game-krews out there. :D
Droma 04-03-07, 02:34 PM	With the restrictions on what they can be used on I dont think they are underprised. They are strictly less usefull than enhancement bonus's so I think they are at about the right price. At most between a 100-500 gold increase not a x4 increase.
unusualsuspect 04-03-07, 04:14 PM	With the restrictions on what they can be used on I dont think they are underprised. They are strictly less usefull than enhancement bonus's so I think they are at about the right price. At most between a 100-500 gold increase not a x4 increase. Not all of them are strictly less useful than enhancement bonuses... I'm fairly certain, nay, almost completely certain there is a Greater Crystal that adds 1d6 energy damage, for cheaper than the minimum cost for a Flaming/Frost/whatever enhancement. The balancing factor, in my mind, is the requirement of a +3 weapon for the Greater Crystal effects... How often, excluding stuff you find in a dungeon treasure horde, does a character actually have a +3 weapon instead of a +1 Flaming Keen weapon, or +1 Wounding weapon, etc?
ClementWillowbreaker 04-03-07, 06:42 PM	How often, excluding stuff you find in a dungeon treasure horde, does a character actually have a +3 weapon instead of a +1 Flaming Keen weapon, or +1 Wounding weapon, etc? In a world where you can get all those abilities as flat-prices instead of squared increases, and have them be transferable, a lot more often than not. Augment Crystals completely remove the validity of making anything except +X weapons.
Iarmeister 04-03-07, 06:51 PM	In a world where you can get all those abilities as flat-prices instead of squared increases, and have them be transferable, a lot more often than not. Augment Crystals completely remove the validity of making anything except +X weapons. I have to disagree. It's completely within the DM's control to regulate how available Augment Crystals are to players and npc's. Simply assuming that every town has a Ye Olde Magic Shop is an assumption that has disaster written all over it for any game-krew out there. I think limiting the availability of an item is much more effective and has better in-game implications than simply hiking up list prices. I mean, what's wrong with having an adventuring actually having to adventure to a little known or visited town in order to find specific items or item components? Talk about instant adventure hook!
ClementWillowbreaker 04-03-07, 06:56 PM	Talk about instant adventure hook! Talk about the totally throwing out the DnD pricing system! I really want to play in a game where I can get a Ring of Three Wishes for 50gp if I look hard enough. Things are priced by their utility, not how hard they are to get. Making them expensive makes them hard to get. You need bigger cities, kill harder enemies...If a DM gives an Augment Crystal once, it better be in place of treasure worth a lot more than the MIC price, because in no way, shape, or form is it worth what they claim it is. If you want to use Augment Crystals at their price, just remove all other forms of weapon abilities. They won't get used. PCs will sell every +1 Flaming weapon they see to afford the increase their +3 to a +4 and just use the Crystals.
Iarmeister 04-03-07, 07:07 PM	Talk about the totally throwing out the DnD pricing system! I really want to play in a game where I can get a Ring of Three Wishes for 50gp if I look hard enough. Things are priced by their utility, not how hard they are to get. Making them expensive makes them hard to get. You need bigger cities, kill harder enemies...If a DM gives an Augment Crystal once, it better be in place of treasure worth a lot more than the MIC price, because in no way, shape, or form is it worth what they claim it is. If you want to use Augment Crystals at their price, just remove all other forms of weapon abilities. They won't get used. PCs will sell every +1 Flaming weapon they see to afford the increase their +3 to a +4 and just use the Crystals. Sorry I wasn't as articulate as I thought I was. I wasn't arguing for making Augment Crystals to cost less than list price. Rather, I was giving an option for the OP to suggest to their DM that in lieu of hiking up the price by a x4, instead keep it the same as-listed price in the MIC, and have them also have to adventure/quest for it.
StruckingFuggle 04-03-07, 08:32 PM	In a world where you can get all those abilities as flat-prices instead of squared increases, and have them be transferable, a lot more often than not. Augment Crystals completely remove the validity of making anything except +X weapons. ... where can you get all of those abilities as flat prices?
primemover003 04-03-07, 08:41 PM	Augment Crystals that give the energy enhancements aren't as great as you think. Cheaper yes, but at the level you get them they're hardly as effective as they would be with a +2 market value weapon. Putting an energy enhancment on a +3 weapon is exorbitantly expensive at a level where it's less than ideal. +1d6 of an energy isn't super effective past 10th level.
Josephvaile 04-03-07, 09:25 PM	Wow guys, do you know why WotC put them into the game? Well they seemed to believe that the prices for some of the weapon enchantments were a tad bit expensive, what with cheaper ways to do it (I suspect they keep tabs on the optimization boards for errata) I believe that also to be true, as do I agree with the fact that the crystals would be very difficult to transfer until later levels. We have play tested them, and in our opinion they aren't overpriced. If WotC sees they have made a horrible, horrible mistake, they will fix it (hopefully :dancin:)
ClementWillowbreaker 04-03-07, 09:43 PM	... where can you get all of those abilities as flat prices? Oddly enough, by using Augment Crystals from the MIC. Where have you been? Incidentally, I didn't say you are getting +X for flat prices. You are getting Flaming, Keen, Holy, Brilliant Energy, ad naseum, for flat rates.
StruckingFuggle 04-03-07, 09:53 PM	Oddly enough, by using Augment Crystals from the MIC. Where have you been? Incidentally, I didn't say you are getting +X for flat prices. You are getting Flaming, Keen, Holy, Brilliant Energy, ad naseum, for flat rates. Actually, I'm looking at the augment crystals in my MIC right now. I see Energy Damage and Returning. But I'd like you to list, so I can see where I'm missing them, the Augment Crystals that make a weapon Keen or Holy or Brilliant Energy or Wounding or any of the others. Please?
unusualsuspect 04-04-07, 12:39 AM	Also of very important note is that, max, you're getting a SINGLE CRYSTAL AT A TIME. Let's ponder that for a second. Let's say there really were Augment Crystals for Keen, Holy, Brilliant Energy, and Wounding. Congratulations, you can either shell out the money to permanently enhance your weapon to do the same thing OR you can do ONE AND ONLY ONE OF THESE EFFECTS. Here's a new question, to be reflected upon (this has already been mentioned, but frankly, its time to focus on the right question): 1. Are the additional energy damage weapon effects (Flaming, Shocking, Frost, etc) worth the eventually exponential cost increases? 1b. If not, are the flat costs (and prerequisites thereof) given by the MIC balanced?
Josephvaile 04-04-07, 07:37 AM	ONE AND ONLY ONE OF THESE EFFECTS. Oh yeah, just another reason for me to say, not broken, go get upset about stupid combos elsewhere I think we've proven enough that they aren't.:tie: