Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AidanPryde13 10-19-05, 10:26 PM	My friend and I have recently been discussing the nature of being flat-footed and losing your DEX bonus to AC. Are they the exact same thing? Here are some situation where it matters: You cannot make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed. If losing your dexterity bonus to AC is equal to being flat-footed, it means you cannot make attacks of opportunity if you ran or are climbing or any other time when you lose your DEX bonus to AC. The uncanny dodge class ability makes it so barbarians and rogues never lose their DEX Bonus to AC. If the two are equal, this means that characters with that class ability can never be caught flat footed. The meat and potatoes of the discussion comes down to the Oriental Adventures skill Iaijutsu Focus. It allows a character to do extra damage against a flat-footed opponents if they draw a weapon that round. If flat-footed and losing DEX bonus to AC are the same, it means that characters with uncanny dodge will never suffer the additional damage from Iaijutsu Focus. So, what do you all think? Is there a difference between being flat-footed, and losing your DEX bonus to AC? Or does one always entail the other? I'd really like to know, and so would my friend!
Steely Glint 10-19-05, 10:33 PM	They are not equivalent. You can be flatfooted but not denied your Dex bonus to AC if you have Uncanny Dodge. You can be denied your Dex bonus to AC but not flat-footed while in a grapple, standing on a slippery surface without sufficient ranks of Balance, while climbing, and in many other circumstances. You can also be denied your Dex bonus to AC against a specific attack, such as an attack made by an invisible foe. This does not make you any more vulnerable to attacks made by other foes.
TheChocoboMafia 10-19-05, 11:51 PM	About being flat footed, let's say that your target's outside of a dome of magical Darkness, and you're inside. If you were a rogue, and you were to fire on the target outside and land a hit, would sneak attack count? From my viewpoint, it would, because it's essentially an invisible attacker as he can't see his adversary, and the rogue has to make a 50% miss chance roll, but I'm not really sure.
Dhavaer 10-19-05, 11:58 PM	The miss chance would negate the sneak attack, I think, unless the rogue had some way of seeing in the darkness.
Jagyr Ebonwood 10-20-05, 12:00 AM	Saying no dex = flatfooted is like saying yellow = banana. Flat footed means you haven't acted in combat yet. As part of being flat footed, you lose your dex bonus. You can still lose your dex bonus due to other situations (being immobilized for example), and with Uncanny Dodge, you can be flat footed and retain your dex. Flat footed is essentially a label that can be applied to a creature. And all creatures labeled "flat footed" lose their dex to AC unless stated otherwise. If anything (like the feat you mentioned) requires flat footedness, it will see the label and affect that creature, regardless of whether they have their dex. If something requires no dex (ie. sneak attack) it will look for a denial of dex, and ignore any other labels.
Colmarr 10-20-05, 01:00 AM	The glossary on the WotC D&D page (which AFAIK is identical to the one in the back of the PHB) defines flat-footed as: Especially vulnerable to attacks at the beginning of a battle. Characters are flat-footed until their first turns in the initiative cycle. A flat-footed creature loses its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity. You'll note that flat-footed is determined with reference to the initiative cycle (with AFAIK only one exception*). Losing your Dex bonus to AC is a "symptom" of being flat-footed. It's not the same thing as being flat-footed. * The only exception that I know of is that creatures who are "balancing" (ie. in a situation where they need to make Balance checks) are flat-footed unless that have 5 ranks in the Balance skill (making Grease an excellent spell, even at high levels where the monsters easily make their Reflex saves against it).