Are race-named weapons exotic for that race? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are race-named weapons exotic for that race? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zebek
08-30-05, 07:53 PM In Sword and Fist there are a few weapons that feature the race that created them but without saying that the race can be proficient with them.
In the PHB, for example, the Dwarven weapons are treated as Martial (not Exotic) by Dwarves.
Should it be assumed that the same applies to Hobbits using Halfling Skiprocks, for example? :confused:
Salla
08-30-05, 08:07 PM Any Weapon Familiarity (Exotics become Martial) will be called out in a specific race's description. If it ain't there, then that weapon doesn't count for Familiarity. The Dwarf has weapon familiarity with the weapons listed in the description of the race, and no more, even if it has 'Dwarven' in the name. Since halflings have no Weapon Familiarity listed, they don't have any exotic weapons that they consider martial without taking the feat you mentioned.
Zebek
08-30-05, 08:23 PM Doesn't that cause a problem with anything published post-PHB? The PHB will only be corrected for errors - it won't make any reference to non-core materials as non-core is not essential to run a game.
Precedent would indicate that racial weapons should not be exotic for those races.
Is my best approach to try and get WotC to modify the SaF errata so that the text is included?
Sluagh
08-30-05, 08:36 PM If it is to be included in weapon familiarity, it will be included in the race's description or the weapon's description for items after the PHB's printing. If racial weapon familiarity isn't expressed in text, it doesn't exist.

Of course, many people house rule that weapon familiarity extends to any race-named weapon.
Lord Schpungus
08-30-05, 08:48 PM Just because your people are the ones who use said type of exotic weapon, doesn't mean it's not exotic. If you get familiarity with it, it Will Say So in the race description. Otherwise, SOL.
Zebek
08-30-05, 08:52 PM Bizarrely, the Gnomish Battlepick says "a small-size character uses a GB two-handed as a martial weapon". So any non-small characters need the exotic weapon option to use it as it was "crafted and weighted to be used by creatures of small size only". That makes sense to me but why the Gnomish name if any of the short races can use it? Can't see a battlepick as being a traditional hobbit weapon.
pres_man
08-30-05, 09:31 PM There is already precedent that racial weapons don't all go exotic -> martial. See half-orc and the orc double-axe.
Zebek
08-30-05, 09:36 PM But orcs are not half-orcs. Half-elves do not get Elvish weapon proficiencies.
pres_man
08-30-05, 11:33 PM Ok, then look in the MM under orcs, you'll see the information block for playing as an orc, and they don't get orc double axe either.
Lionheart429
08-30-05, 11:35 PM As DM, I just state as a house rule that if it has the race in the name, it's martial. Why not? The game was designed to be fun, and it gives people more incentive to play non-humans (Which happen to be the personal preference in my gaming group)
Zebek
08-31-05, 05:55 AM Ok, then look in the MM under orcs, you'll see the information block for playing as an orc, and they don't get orc double axe either.
True, and Dwarves in the MM do have a specific Weapon Familiarity entry.
That entry, though, is not the same format as the orcish combat entry which talks about what the fighter class can use for weapon proficiency.

I do still feel that this is an oversight/inconsistency in the rules. The PHB (and other books) lists includes those weapons that are so commonly used by one race that other races know about them enough to have a chance to use them (exotic weapon prof). They can't be that exotic to their own race because they would then be too rare to appear in the main (all-race) exotic list. The racial weapons have been added for flavour without always ensuring the racial detail is there. For example, the Halfling skipstone text (which I don't have handy) gives the impression that Halflings can use them easily but there are no specifics. Bah. I was hoping to avoid house rules on this one.

Looking at the exotic list again, though, I suppose you could leave the orc double axe there (for orcs) as the generic two-bladed sword is in the same place (for all races).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zebek 08-30-05, 07:53 PM	In Sword and Fist there are a few weapons that feature the race that created them but without saying that the race can be proficient with them. In the PHB, for example, the Dwarven weapons are treated as Martial (not Exotic) by Dwarves. Should it be assumed that the same applies to Hobbits using Halfling Skiprocks, for example? :confused:
Salla 08-30-05, 08:07 PM	Any Weapon Familiarity (Exotics become Martial) will be called out in a specific race's description. If it ain't there, then that weapon doesn't count for Familiarity. The Dwarf has weapon familiarity with the weapons listed in the description of the race, and no more, even if it has 'Dwarven' in the name. Since halflings have no Weapon Familiarity listed, they don't have any exotic weapons that they consider martial without taking the feat you mentioned.
Zebek 08-30-05, 08:23 PM	Doesn't that cause a problem with anything published post-PHB? The PHB will only be corrected for errors - it won't make any reference to non-core materials as non-core is not essential to run a game. Precedent would indicate that racial weapons should not be exotic for those races. Is my best approach to try and get WotC to modify the SaF errata so that the text is included?
Sluagh 08-30-05, 08:36 PM	If it is to be included in weapon familiarity, it will be included in the race's description or the weapon's description for items after the PHB's printing. If racial weapon familiarity isn't expressed in text, it doesn't exist. Of course, many people house rule that weapon familiarity extends to any race-named weapon.
Lord Schpungus 08-30-05, 08:48 PM	Just because your people are the ones who use said type of exotic weapon, doesn't mean it's not exotic. If you get familiarity with it, it Will Say So in the race description. Otherwise, SOL.
Zebek 08-30-05, 08:52 PM	Bizarrely, the Gnomish Battlepick says "a small-size character uses a GB two-handed as a martial weapon". So any non-small characters need the exotic weapon option to use it as it was "crafted and weighted to be used by creatures of small size only". That makes sense to me but why the Gnomish name if any of the short races can use it? Can't see a battlepick as being a traditional hobbit weapon.
pres_man 08-30-05, 09:31 PM	There is already precedent that racial weapons don't all go exotic -> martial. See half-orc and the orc double-axe.
Zebek 08-30-05, 09:36 PM	But orcs are not half-orcs. Half-elves do not get Elvish weapon proficiencies.
pres_man 08-30-05, 11:33 PM	Ok, then look in the MM under orcs, you'll see the information block for playing as an orc, and they don't get orc double axe either.
Lionheart429 08-30-05, 11:35 PM	As DM, I just state as a house rule that if it has the race in the name, it's martial. Why not? The game was designed to be fun, and it gives people more incentive to play non-humans (Which happen to be the personal preference in my gaming group)
Zebek 08-31-05, 05:55 AM	Ok, then look in the MM under orcs, you'll see the information block for playing as an orc, and they don't get orc double axe either. True, and Dwarves in the MM do have a specific Weapon Familiarity entry. That entry, though, is not the same format as the orcish combat entry which talks about what the fighter class can use for weapon proficiency. I do still feel that this is an oversight/inconsistency in the rules. The PHB (and other books) lists includes those weapons that are so commonly used by one race that other races know about them enough to have a chance to use them (exotic weapon prof). They can't be that exotic to their own race because they would then be too rare to appear in the main (all-race) exotic list. The racial weapons have been added for flavour without always ensuring the racial detail is there. For example, the Halfling skipstone text (which I don't have handy) gives the impression that Halflings can use them easily but there are no specifics. Bah. I was hoping to avoid house rules on this one. Looking at the exotic list again, though, I suppose you could leave the orc double axe there (for orcs) as the generic two-bladed sword is in the same place (for all races).