Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dunamin 11-10-06, 06:01 AM	Is a cold iron sword easy to tell from a normal sword for instance? What about mithral from silver? What does adamantine look like? Is there a metal it can easily be mistaken for? Thanks
Arien_Drajanuma 11-10-06, 07:16 AM	Cold iron I believe is a bit paler than normal steel. Silver and mithral are very hard to distinguish from a distance (I don't think they can be told apart unless you touch it) Adamantine could be pitch black or a very dark steel At least I believe it's like this
RavenDrake 11-10-06, 07:31 AM	Well, Silver and mithral are similar in appearence, though I would say that Mithral has a higher luster(like platinum) from the description of it in DMG. Rember, though, that the item will give you clues as well: Alchemical silver does little to nothing for armour, and mithral gives no benefit on weapons so you're unlikely to see them on the same items. Cold Iron, I would think, would be dull grey-black, like worked wrought Iron, rather than the polished grey-silver of Steel... but that's just a personal opinion. Adamantine is rarely given a colour that I can remember(I believe in Forgotten Realms in the past it's been described as Dull Grey). It's not so hard to consider it to be Dark or Dull Grey, or Black.
jaelis 11-10-06, 08:25 AM	I require an Appraise check to figure out that something is a special material. The DC scales with value, but it's typically about 15.
Roland the Crownbreaker 11-10-06, 08:42 AM	Other metals can be very easily recognized. Star Metal (From Complete Arcane) has a greenish color. Many of the special materials from Forgotten Realms give bonus elemental damage even when not enchanted, so even if they couldn't be distinguished on sight, handling them for a few moments should tell you what they are made of. (provided you know what they are, most of them are exceedingly rare)
mvincent 11-10-06, 03:46 PM	Adamantine is rarely given a colour that I can remember.Apparently (from long discussions on the color of adamantine), it has too frequently been given a color... usually of different types. The last I recall was that it was black, with a greenish tinge in magical light and a bluish tinge in regular light (or I might have that reversed). Anyway, I can provide links to long, long threads solely about its color if desired.
DarkPawn 11-10-06, 03:54 PM	I require an Appraise check to figure out that something is a special material. The DC scales with value, but it's typically about 15. No offense but I don't like this at all. You would think a fighter should have the best ability to identify weapons and armor. That is their life. They don't get appraise as a class skill. Seems a bit odd to me. I would prefer to see a craft skill check like armorer, weaponsmith, blacksmith, etc... Or better yet just describe the weapon or armor and let the PC's deduce what it is on their own.
mvincent 11-10-06, 04:44 PM	No offense but I don't like this at all. You would think a fighter should have the best ability to identify weapons and armor. That is their life. They don't get appraise as a class skill. Seems a bit odd to me. I would prefer to see a craft skill check like armorer, weaponsmith, blacksmith, etc...Well, craft does provide a +2 bonus to appraise (due to synergy), but a DM is certainly free to make it more versatile.
DarkPawn 11-10-06, 04:49 PM	Well, craft does provide a +2 bonus to appraise (due to synergy), but a DM is certainly free to make it more versatile. Yeah but that doesn't change the main point. A fighter doesn't get appraise as a class skill. This is basically saying that a rogue and bard are the best at identifying the materials used by weapons and armor. I think this is a bit limiting to other classes that should have the same, if not a better chance at identifying the materials.
mvincent 11-10-06, 05:14 PM	Yeah but that doesn't change the main point.To clarify what I meant by "a DM is certainly free to make it more versatile" is that there is nothing wrong with* allowing someone a craft check to identify what something is made of. He may not know its gp value, but that likely doesn't matter. * i.e. this is not outside the rules at all, and seems reasonable.
DarkPawn 11-10-06, 05:33 PM	To clarify what I meant by "a DM is certainly free to make it more versatile" is that there is nothing wrong with* allowing someone a craft check to identify what something is made of. He may not know its gp value, but that likely doesn't matter. * i.e. this is not outside the rules at all, and seems reasonable. Copy that.
mato_hibiki 11-10-06, 08:35 PM	Y'know, I can honestly say, I've never really given much thought to the color of adamantine before... Though, I like the idea that it looks either like wrought iron, or just plain black. Check that, wrought iron, I just like the look of it for some reason. Anyways, constructive comment time! Why not just have the fighter make a level check, and add either his wis or int modifier? Makes sense, right? Y'know, what with a higher level fighter being more experienced and all... - "Choose your weapon." "I'll use this." "That's a fireplace poker.... What could you- AIIEE!!" "Correction; It's a red HOT fireplace poker. There is a difference, as you are fully aware of now."
Mitchell 11-10-06, 10:38 PM	They can be whatever color you want them to be, and as easily identifiable as you wish, also. Officially, I believe adamantine is black. Mithral is silvery, but let's face it, it isn't that hard to figure out if something is mithral if you just pick it up, armor especially. Cold iron, I imagine, is probably dull when compared to steel. Anyone with a metal crafting skill should be able to identify the different metals at varying DCs, but unless you have an abundance of iron weapons, then telling the difference between a cold iron weapon and a normal (steel) weapon shouldn't be that difficult. I would scale the DC based on the cost modifier of the material.
Onikani 11-11-06, 12:15 AM	Cold iron is colder to the touch than regular steel at the same room temperature. Regardless of color, as simple touch of the blade lets you know. Mithril is silvery but incredibly light. Anyone picking up mithril knows its mithril right away - at the very least they know it isn't regular steel. Adamantine - um. :D Yeah.
Roland the Crownbreaker 11-11-06, 08:01 AM	And if IIRC, alchemical silver is heavier than normal, so after handling, there isn't likely to be any confusion between silver and mithril.
Rulebook 11-11-06, 08:52 AM	silvery dosent mean silver. its just a higher luster steel really. cold iron would just look like regular iron/steel. i mean it would only look like wrought iron if you didnt polish it. you spend enough time polishing wrought iron and it'll get a mirror finish. for the most part, most special materials dont look any different, and without an appraise check i cant see a single reason a fighter would be able to tell them apart. a fighter fights. he'd know something was up possibly after being struck by the weapon, but unless he's taken the requisite skills on how to identify materials (knowledges, or appraise) you dont know jack.
SephDragoon 11-11-06, 09:08 AM	Something I should note... aside from metals like gold and whatnot, which have distinctive characteristics, it is a bit harder to tell what a weapon is made of, unless you know the cues, or you see the "Stainless Steel" imprint you know? So follow the same rules. Also, craft skills would be best. Maybe the fighter never really works on weapons himself, but he knows quite a bit about the process. He can spot well made swords and whatnot, because he knows how they should be made, the materials to make them out of, and knows to look for full tang, half tang, no tang, etc etc. Crafting skills to identify what it is made out of, if it is masterwork and whatnot, fine. Magical properties and value, that is other skills.
jaelis 11-11-06, 10:27 AM	No offense but I don't like this at all. You would think a fighter should have the best ability to identify weapons and armor. That is their life. They don't get appraise as a class skill. Seems a bit odd to me. I would prefer to see a craft skill check like armorer, weaponsmith, blacksmith, etc... Besides the synergy bonus from craft, I also give a bonus to appraise weapons and armor if the character is proficient with it. (A proficient character also doesn't need a check to identify the basic item, so a fighter recognizes full plate automatically even though it is pretty expensive.) But other than that, I don't see that a fighter should be able to identify special materials particularly easily... they are supposed to be rare, special stuff. Or better yet just describe the weapon or armor and let the PC's deduce what it is on their own. That is always an option anyway. It's not like I refuse to describe the item if no one makes the Appraise check!
Wharin 11-11-06, 10:48 AM	Adamantite*- Black Adamantine- ???. But that virtual Octarine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octarine#Octarine) color that people seem to want to give it is a popular choice *the special alloy Drow used in much of their armor and weapons to prevent looters and defecters to take their precious gear to the surface world. Sorta like a cyanide tablet that gov'ts give their spies, adamantite weapons would quickly turn to dust in the sun, and would lose all their specialness if they didn't maintain exposure to the (un)natural radiations of the underdark. If they can't keep it, noone else can have it.
DarkPawn 11-11-06, 11:19 AM	Besides the synergy bonus from craft, I also give a bonus to appraise weapons and armor if the character is proficient with it. (A proficient character also doesn't need a check to identify the basic item, so a fighter recognizes full plate automatically even though it is pretty expensive.) But other than that, I don't see that a fighter should be able to identify special materials particularly easily... they are supposed to be rare, special stuff. That is always an option anyway. It's not like I refuse to describe the item if no one makes the Appraise check! Copy that.
Dunamin 11-20-06, 02:43 PM	Almost forgot about this thread... One of the reasons for starting it was an upcoming encounter with an adamantine axe wielding foe, which made me consider whether the PCs would recognise it as such before suffering a sundering blow from it. I've let identification of special materials be automatically successful when a character have had the option to handle the item for a bit, but in this case (just brief sighting), I suppose an Appraise check and/or Craft check is in order... Apparently (from long discussions on the color of adamantine), it has too frequently been given a color... usually of different types. The last I recall was that it was black, with a greenish tinge in magical light and a bluish tinge in regular light (or I might have that reversed). Anyway, I can provide links to long, long threads solely about its color if desired. Sure, it has sparked my interest now.
mvincent 11-20-06, 03:09 PM	Sure, it has sparked my interest now.Try here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8290242) and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7598371)
angryscrub 11-20-06, 03:20 PM	Appraise to tell you value and material. Craft to tell you material (and possibly value if you have craft weaponsmith and it's a weapon, though I'd think an armorsmith would be able to recognize a mithral weapon, though maybe not know the value). However, doing any of these in combat might be dangerous to your health, as I don't think any of them are reactive, and would require a standard action most likely.
Joseph_Silver 11-20-06, 04:16 PM	Well, in the Eberron Campaign Setting, adamantine is jet black. The main character of the Dreaming Dark Trilogy, Daine, has an adamantine dagger, and it's describe as having a black blade that cuts through anything.
Dunamin 11-21-06, 01:21 AM	I read through the threads you provided mvincent, and whoa is that a spread of opinions! Anyway, I'm going to go with the majority that gives adamantine a very dark colour, if not jet black metallic. I suppose that would be an easy check in the aforementioned scenario then, perhaps Appraise/Craft DC 5? Possibly mistaken for black-sooted, very dirty or specially forged steel, but unlikely. I'll probably not use the bluish tinge in normal light, but it does sound appealing with greenish tinge in magical light... And the location of the encounter sure is lighted by Continual Flames, so if I'm using that, it would pretty much be an automatic success. I might restrict it to only work with light caused from up to 3rd level magic, however, for the sake of preventing adamantine tipping off powerful illusions. I suppose dull grey would be ok for cold iron. Perhaps DC 15 to tell it apart? Easily mistaken for badly maintained weaponry, although that might be a descriptive tip-off, if a character expects the owner to keep his gear in fine shape... Guess that would give the tanar'ri a further disadvantage in the Blood War, as they cannot as readily tell apart weapons that bypass their damage reduction, in relation to their baatezu rivals. But meh, I say, meh.
chucky 11-21-06, 08:41 AM	A person with a craft check high enough to actually forge a item out of the materials in question should be able to recognize them. Think of it as a knowledge check using the craft skill. Of course this is heavily modified by the gm's perogotive. If there is only 1 adamantine wpn on the planet there probably isnt many people that will recognize it. Oh and the color of weapons can be heavily modified, by using magic, during the crafting of the item.
TWG_Prometheus 11-25-06, 09:22 AM	If there's only one adamantine weapon on the planet, then it's likely Legendary and a lot of people would know about it, and probably even who exactly wields the thing. If adamantine is rare but existent, Mr. Fighter would probably hear about it in Fighter school...or chatting with his buddies in the army, or wherever. Whether his information on how to recognize it in the heat of battle is accurate, and also whether he can actually do so may vary.