Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Starman IX 03-30-06, 01:10 PM	You know: charge and pin to the ground. Sounds like a bull rush/grapple to me, but there's no way in the rules to do that in one round. Maybe a feat?
dvlsadvct 03-30-06, 01:28 PM	Its a grapple followed by a pin. You can attempt to trip them in the first round and then grapple them in the second, that is if you can get to them before they stand up.
malignor 03-30-06, 01:29 PM	Round 1: Charge + Grapple Round 2: Grapple check to moveMove: You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple. Note: You get a +4 bonus on your grapple check to move a pinned opponent, but only if no one else is involved in the grapple.
Tony Vargas 03-30-06, 01:29 PM	Using a charge to start a grapple sounds pretty close to the kind of tackling you're talking about...
BaelinWhale 03-30-06, 01:30 PM	Closest thing I can think off is Charge followed by an (Improved) Trip attack followed by a Grapple check.
Starman IX 03-30-06, 01:37 PM	To put it in layman terms, I want to sac the quarterback. Basically a takedown. Now that I think about it, isn't there a takedown ability?
strumbleduck 03-30-06, 03:21 PM	It's just a normal grapple. That's what a grapple is.
00_Whupass 03-30-06, 03:58 PM	It's just a normal grapple. That's what a grapple is. Not exactly. A grapple is the scene in the movie where the two character struggle for the gun, or a Greco-Roman wrestling match, niether of which necessarily render your opponent motionless and prone. Which is what happens when the quarterback gets sacked, and what I think the OP is looking to do in a single round. Basically it sounds like you're looking for a way to Move, grapple and pin in the same round. Which would require a full attack after a charge. There are not a lot of ways to do that. Off the top of my head I can come up with 5: 1. Lion of Talsid 5 2. The 1st level Druid spell Lion's Charge, 3. The psionic version of Lion's charge 4. The Snow Tiger Berserker feat (Unapproachable East, must be taken at 1st level, prerequisite Rage), 5. The Catfolk Pounce feat (Races of the Wild, prerequisite Catfolk race and something else I don't remember)
milotinous 03-30-06, 05:17 PM	I would probably use the Grapple rules with a takedown (Knockdown) being the desired goal instead of inflicting damage. I have a book (BoIM) from another company, but I don't know if I should mention it here -might cause (Mal) havoc. It details rules for all sorts of nifty off the cuff moves that fit perfectly within the given system.
Nom 03-30-06, 05:24 PM	Depending on exactly what result you're after, a tackle can be modelled with one or more of trip, grapple, bull-rush or even overrun. As BaelinWhale mentioned, Charge -> Improved Trip -> Grapple (full round action) is probably the best for a "run up and bear them to the ground" tackle.
arjomanes 03-30-06, 07:09 PM	I'd think you shouldn't even need to take a feat to use it. It seems to me that it's a different use of the grapple special attack. My suggestion: Tackle (Grapple Variant) You can charge and attempt a grapple check with a +2 bonus. This takes a full-round action, unless the circumstances are such that you are allowed a partial charge (see Charge, Grapple). Regardless of whether your grapple succeeds or fails, you provoke an Attack of Opportunity (which is resolved before your grapple check, and at a -2 to your AC due to charging). If you fail, you failed to tackle your opponent, but still retain the -2 to AC (from charging) until your next turn. You remain in the square next to your opponent that you charged into. If you succeed, both you and your opponent are prone and grappling in the opponent's square. If you succeed, you take a -2 penalty to AC (from charging) until your next turn. You also lose your Dexterity modifier (for grappling) and take -4 AC against melee attacks (for being prone) from other opponents; these penalties don't apply against the opponent you are grappling. If you have the Improved Grapple feat, then you don't provoke an Attack of Opportunity (see Improved Grapple). You also get a +4 bonus to grapple, which stacks with the +2 from charging. The AC penalties still apply normally. Pin Your Opponent On your next turn you can hold your opponent immobile for 1 round by winning an opposed grapple check (made in place of an attack). I also think you should be able to attempt to trip with a charge as well, with a +2 charge bonus and the -2 AC penalty. All the other normal trip rules would apply. EDIT: Actually, on second thought, I'm not too sure about the charge and the trip. That would open up a real can of worms. It seems like it should be allowed, but considering that Improved Trip is more powerful than Improved Grapple, it might make sense to not bring charging into the mix. And tripping is more precision-based anyways, whereas grapple seems more akin to bullrush.
Fighter1 03-30-06, 08:09 PM	Closest thing I can think off is Charge followed by an (Improved) Trip attack followed by a Grapple check. I'd say a Bullrush or overrun + Grapple - usually if ya tackle your trying to 'hit" your target hard to drive them back (or into the ground). This is one of those houe rule things I think.
ManTimeForgot 03-31-06, 01:55 AM	I'd say you all haven't heard of or read the overrun rules. If you just want to knock someone down, like a flying tackle, then that is an overrun. MTF
Xeviat-DM 03-31-06, 02:18 AM	I'd say you all haven't heard of or read the overrun rules. If you just want to knock someone down, like a flying tackle, then that is an overrun. MTF But overrun is so you can move past the foe. Sure, after making them fall you "could" stay in the same square as them. You "could" choose to fall prone (probably a free action) and fall on them. But I say this almost does deserve it's own "rules"; not an entire combat action, but this seems like it could be applied to both overrun (same results) and grapple; it's just closer to a grapple. So I'd say that within the PHB rules, it's a charge with a grapple, and instead of damaging them you are both prone. Wizard's "All About Grappling" says you can make someone prone with a successful grapple check, so why not? I might even give you +2 to your grapple check to make them prone in such a situation.
Feor 03-31-06, 07:46 AM	Tackle: run up to someone, grab them, fall down dragging them with you. If you miss grabbing them you typically just keep running a bit past them (<5 feet if you've got good reaction times). If you miss the trip they're either strong enough to support your weight for a time, or have managed to wiggle free of the grab, and you will often end up on the ground yourself. Charge = run up to someone and attack them Grapple = type of attack where you grab someone Trip = attempt to knock someone to the ground If you fail the grapple check(s) you just end up in the same square, no harm no foul. If you fail the trip it's either because of an opposed Dex roll or an opposed Str roll, and if you fail they will often knock you to the ground. Sounds like a charge into grapple followed by a trip to me.
arjomanes 03-31-06, 10:53 AM	I think you could maybe avoid making a trip check with a flying tackle. Just the grapple check combined with the momentum and type of grapple would make both of you prone and grappling. I think it shouldn't require a trip check, since you're really both going to end up prone. Alternatively, if the goal is to charge and throw someone to the ground, but stay on your feet, that would probably require a combination of charging and tripping, and then it might need to be a feat. In that case, it should also be possible to use the Improved Trip Feat with it. So then you could charge, get a +2 to trip, then if you succeed take your extra attack against them (but not with a +2 charging bonus). Edit: I do agree that it does have some elements of tripping to it, so it makes sense that the defender gets a +4 bonus on his check if he has more than two legs or is otherwise more stable than a normal humanoid.
Starman IX 03-31-06, 10:57 AM	I was looking for both kinds of tackle. Overrun would seem to be a standing tackle. Flying tackles are a little harder to pinpoint, it seems.
arjomanes 03-31-06, 11:19 AM	That's true. Overrun is really closer than tripping. However, it seems like the rule that the defender can just avoid you without making any kind of check makes it difficult. They just move out of the way and get to make an AoO against you. That's why I think a trip attack should be involved. Overrun, is also somewhat different than tackling since it's more like pushing them over, while tackling could be like tripping. For a flying tackle, it kind of combines the grapple and tripping rules. Or maybe like some suggested, requires both a grapple check and trip check. Personally, I think a grapple check with a charge would be sufficient. You charge the opponent. The defender makes his AoO, when you enter his square and you have a -2 AC from charging. You then both make grapple checks, and you get a +2 bonus for charging. The defender gets a +4 if he has 4 legs or is more stable than a humanoid. You and the defender get a +4 for each size category larger than medium: Colossal +16, Gargantuan +12, Huge +8, Large +4, Medium +0, Small -4, Tiny -8, Diminutive -12, Fine -16. If you succeed, you are both prone in the opponent's square. If you fail, you are prone in the opponent's square, but he is still standing.
Gotetsu 03-31-06, 11:29 AM	What about making it a basic unarmed strike, with the added benefits/penalties of a charge? This would make it more of a shoulder-block I guess... Personally, for a tackle, I would just have the player roll a standard grapple check, adding the modifiers for a charge and be done with it. The simpler the better. A successful hit means you knocked them to the ground. A failure means they managed to sidestep you, and now you are prone.
Fighter1 04-01-06, 08:15 PM	What about making it a basic unarmed strike, with the added benefits/penalties of a charge? This would make it more of a shoulder-block I guess... Personally, for a tackle, I would just have the player roll a standard grapple check, adding the modifiers for a charge and be done with it. The simpler the better. A successful hit means you knocked them to the ground. A failure means they managed to sidestep you, and now you are prone. That makes sense to me