Argh Scroll Cases! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Argh Scroll Cases! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
damnedmage
11-20-06, 12:33 AM Okay, in neither 3.0 nor 3.5 can I find any reference to the number of scrolls that a scroll case can carry. I know that this makes it a DM's call, but I simply cannot get my head around this one.

Part of me wants to say 1, because in real life scrolls were kept around dual-dowels to allow them to be rolled between them.

However, there's also the simple fact that we're expecting a scroll to be only about a modern page or so of text for a level 1 scroll, so that means it should be much shorter than the rolled Dead Sea Scrolls or the like.

So I need input. How many scrolls could a scroll case hold if a scroll case could hold scrolls?

Thanks!
ShinAkuma2
11-20-06, 12:42 AM I don't think it's addressed, at least not to my knowledge.

May I ask why it's an issue? It might be avoided if you're simply concerned with losing a scroll case, or having one stolen, in which case it's as simple as losing 1d4 (or whatever) random scrolls from your bag.
damnedmage
11-20-06, 12:56 AM I am a detail-oriented person. I use the A&EG clothing page extensively, and do not touch outfits with a ten foot pole. :) I LIKE knowing these little details.

Besides, it matters for encumbrance. Scroll cases weigh 1/2 lb. If I have to have 1/scroll, that's 50 lb. for some characters.
Vegepygmy
11-20-06, 01:05 AM Besides, it matters for encumbrance. Scroll cases weigh 1/2 lb. If I have to have 1/scroll, that's 50 lb. for some characters.Well, there's nothing that requires you to keep your scrolls in cases anyway.

I'd say 10 spells per scroll case is a reasonable figure. But really, this is the sort of thing that is best handwaved away. If you really stop to think (for example) about how long it should take to retrieve a scroll case from your backpack or whatever, open it, remove all the scrolls inside, and page through them looking for the one you want to cast...you'll realize there's no practical way to use one in combat. Do you really want to face that truth?
damnedmage
11-20-06, 01:10 AM Hehe. I figure there's an intricate system of labels that the scroll-savvy character uses. In fact, I've done just that. ;) Yes, I really do want to get that intricate. I'm crazy, I know, and all of you people who are right now about to remind me that the Hit Point system is not accurate to real-life and that D&D is just a simplified system, I know I know. I revert to: I'm crazy. :)

10 is actually a number I'd thought about too, since theoretically a 9th-level spell would take 9 times as much room as a 1st-level spell. But 9's a weird number to hold so we round up to 10.

Anyone else have good input? I'm still hoping someone can cite a source, or give good justification or something. Thank you all for the help so far!
Azdraugnor
11-20-06, 01:43 AM Well, think of those tubes that posters come in, they're pretty similar to scroll cases. Since scrolls aren't very large, you should easily be able to fit multiple scrolls in a case - I think 10 sounds like a good number; you could probably fit in a lot more in real life, but modern paper is a lot better and thinner than medieval paper.
Reversefigure4
11-20-06, 02:11 AM It isn't sourced anywhere. Scroll cases are an extra. You don't, technically, need them. You can, by the rules, just stuff the cases into your backpack, or down your pants, or whatever you like. DnD doesn't worry much about the logistics of packing. If you want to, go ahead with whatever number you deem fit.
damnedmage
11-20-06, 03:52 AM To protect it from wrinkling or tearing, a scroll is rolled up from both ends to form a double cylinder. (This also helps the user unroll the scroll quickly.) The scroll is placed in a tube of ivory, jade, leather, metal, or wood. Most scroll cases are inscribed with magic symbols which often identify the owner or the spells stored on the scrolls inside. The symbols often hide magic traps.

This seems to imply to me that it is one scroll per scroll case; however, scrolls can hold multiple spells.

Thoughts? :)
Vegepygmy
11-20-06, 02:22 PM 10 is actually a number I'd thought about too, since theoretically a 9th-level spell would take 9 times as much room as a 1st-level spell.Nope. You're thinking of spellbooks. A spell on a scroll always takes just one page.

An area the size of a piece of modern-day notebook paper (about 8 1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long) is sufficient to hold one spell.As for the "one scroll per scroll case" implication, I believe the assumption is that a caster will use one case per scroll, but nowhere is that actually required.
SirCaran
11-20-06, 10:17 PM How about this?
A scroll case is what scrolls come in when you buy them. With that, it assumes that a scroll case is only large enough to hold 1 scroll. Which wouldn't be much bigger than a rolled up scroll.

And a related question, when you use a scroll it becomes a blank scroll, could you scribe another scroll on it, and reuse it?
Forged_Fury
11-20-06, 10:29 PM Oh...

This way lies madness. Consider this from the SRD:

A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8 ½ inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8 ½ inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each extra spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather.
So are you going to have to get different sized scroll cases for those that do have the reinforcing rods as opposed to the strips of leather?

-Forged_Fury
SirCaran
11-20-06, 11:03 PM Oh...

This way lies madness. Consider this from the SRD:

So are you going to have to get different sized scroll cases for those that do have the reinforcing rods as opposed to the strips of leather?

-Forged_Fury

yes

it is more of a protective thing in the shop(spell mishaps and whatnot, you dont want all the scrolls going up in a misplaced fireball accident)

Also the scroll case would be for the scroll scribe in scroll creating process. standard scroll sizes

thats how I would rule it

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
damnedmage 11-20-06, 12:33 AM	Okay, in neither 3.0 nor 3.5 can I find any reference to the number of scrolls that a scroll case can carry. I know that this makes it a DM's call, but I simply cannot get my head around this one. Part of me wants to say 1, because in real life scrolls were kept around dual-dowels to allow them to be rolled between them. However, there's also the simple fact that we're expecting a scroll to be only about a modern page or so of text for a level 1 scroll, so that means it should be much shorter than the rolled Dead Sea Scrolls or the like. So I need input. How many scrolls could a scroll case hold if a scroll case could hold scrolls? Thanks!
ShinAkuma2 11-20-06, 12:42 AM	I don't think it's addressed, at least not to my knowledge. May I ask why it's an issue? It might be avoided if you're simply concerned with losing a scroll case, or having one stolen, in which case it's as simple as losing 1d4 (or whatever) random scrolls from your bag.
damnedmage 11-20-06, 12:56 AM	I am a detail-oriented person. I use the A&EG clothing page extensively, and do not touch outfits with a ten foot pole. :) I LIKE knowing these little details. Besides, it matters for encumbrance. Scroll cases weigh 1/2 lb. If I have to have 1/scroll, that's 50 lb. for some characters.
Vegepygmy 11-20-06, 01:05 AM	Besides, it matters for encumbrance. Scroll cases weigh 1/2 lb. If I have to have 1/scroll, that's 50 lb. for some characters.Well, there's nothing that requires you to keep your scrolls in cases anyway. I'd say 10 spells per scroll case is a reasonable figure. But really, this is the sort of thing that is best handwaved away. If you really stop to think (for example) about how long it should take to retrieve a scroll case from your backpack or whatever, open it, remove all the scrolls inside, and page through them looking for the one you want to cast...you'll realize there's no practical way to use one in combat. Do you really want to face that truth?
damnedmage 11-20-06, 01:10 AM	Hehe. I figure there's an intricate system of labels that the scroll-savvy character uses. In fact, I've done just that. ;) Yes, I really do want to get that intricate. I'm crazy, I know, and all of you people who are right now about to remind me that the Hit Point system is not accurate to real-life and that D&D is just a simplified system, I know I know. I revert to: I'm crazy. :) 10 is actually a number I'd thought about too, since theoretically a 9th-level spell would take 9 times as much room as a 1st-level spell. But 9's a weird number to hold so we round up to 10. Anyone else have good input? I'm still hoping someone can cite a source, or give good justification or something. Thank you all for the help so far!
Azdraugnor 11-20-06, 01:43 AM	Well, think of those tubes that posters come in, they're pretty similar to scroll cases. Since scrolls aren't very large, you should easily be able to fit multiple scrolls in a case - I think 10 sounds like a good number; you could probably fit in a lot more in real life, but modern paper is a lot better and thinner than medieval paper.
Reversefigure4 11-20-06, 02:11 AM	It isn't sourced anywhere. Scroll cases are an extra. You don't, technically, need them. You can, by the rules, just stuff the cases into your backpack, or down your pants, or whatever you like. DnD doesn't worry much about the logistics of packing. If you want to, go ahead with whatever number you deem fit.
damnedmage 11-20-06, 03:52 AM	To protect it from wrinkling or tearing, a scroll is rolled up from both ends to form a double cylinder. (This also helps the user unroll the scroll quickly.) The scroll is placed in a tube of ivory, jade, leather, metal, or wood. Most scroll cases are inscribed with magic symbols which often identify the owner or the spells stored on the scrolls inside. The symbols often hide magic traps. This seems to imply to me that it is one scroll per scroll case; however, scrolls can hold multiple spells. Thoughts? :)
Vegepygmy 11-20-06, 02:22 PM	10 is actually a number I'd thought about too, since theoretically a 9th-level spell would take 9 times as much room as a 1st-level spell.Nope. You're thinking of spellbooks. A spell on a scroll always takes just one page. An area the size of a piece of modern-day notebook paper (about 8 1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long) is sufficient to hold one spell.As for the "one scroll per scroll case" implication, I believe the assumption is that a caster will use one case per scroll, but nowhere is that actually required.
SirCaran 11-20-06, 10:17 PM	How about this? A scroll case is what scrolls come in when you buy them. With that, it assumes that a scroll case is only large enough to hold 1 scroll. Which wouldn't be much bigger than a rolled up scroll. And a related question, when you use a scroll it becomes a blank scroll, could you scribe another scroll on it, and reuse it?
Forged_Fury 11-20-06, 10:29 PM	Oh... This way lies madness. Consider this from the SRD: A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8 ½ inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8 ½ inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each extra spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather. So are you going to have to get different sized scroll cases for those that do have the reinforcing rods as opposed to the strips of leather? -Forged_Fury
SirCaran 11-20-06, 11:03 PM	Oh... This way lies madness. Consider this from the SRD: So are you going to have to get different sized scroll cases for those that do have the reinforcing rods as opposed to the strips of leather? -Forged_Fury yes it is more of a protective thing in the shop(spell mishaps and whatnot, you dont want all the scrolls going up in a misplaced fireball accident) Also the scroll case would be for the scroll scribe in scroll creating process. standard scroll sizes thats how I would rule it