Armor "Splint, Banded & Plate" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor "Splint, Banded & Plate" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ungenanir
10-03-06, 03:05 PM Maby this is just another boring small detail thing..I don't know, but it is something that keeps bothering me.

Most armor have benefits and drawbacks to some degree in the form of: AC, CP, M-DEX, SF, and Weight. ( Leather types are a good choise if you are very agile or a semi-spellcaster where plate will be optimal for a not so nimble but massive pure fighter )
If the numbers are perfectly logical and realistic or not strikes me as less important than the simple fact that they are different, making the choice intressting.

This is why I get a bit anoyed when I eye the heavy armor section comparing the splint and the banded mail to eachother, and then the half-plate with the full-plate.

Other than cost banded mail is better in all stats to its metal ribbon counterpart and the full-plate is the same to the partly plated option.

This makes for poor diversity, and though NPC's, for purpouses of cultural style maby, will show up in all variants...what player in his right mind would buy splint-mail for the measly 50gp better price?

In most campaigns eventuallt price will not be a factor so in due time the fighters and paladins will all wear full-plate! How diverse is that?

-
To me this just appeared like a missprint in the in my old 3.0 PHB. In Neverwinter Nights, the computorgame most of you probably are familiar with, wich does its best to emulate the D&D rules the banded and spint are identical in numbers ( if I remember right ), which is actually better in my opinion because it makes the choise an "Inky binky boo" purely style preference thing.
Because of this I was expecting to see the same changes in 3.5, but no cigar there!
-

Not that I or the other player in our gaming group have any clue to what the actual differences would be like in numbers between the armor types, but we just wanted some benefits to all armor over the other.

Here is how we changed it following the original stats:
(Perhaps you people have better ideas or maby find it usefull)

PHB 3.5; AC/M-DEX/CP/SF
Splint-mail: +6/0/-7/40%
Banded mail: +6/1/-6/35%
-
Half-plate: +7/0/-7/40%
Full-plate: +8/1/-6/35%
________________

MOD; AC/M-DEX/CP/SF
Splint-mail: +6/0/-6/35%
Banded mail: +6/1/-7/35%
-
Half-plate: +7/0/-6(-7)/40%
Full-plate: +8/1/-7(-8)/35%
_________________
-
Our reasoning was to view the splintmail as though heavier and more encumbersome as a softer more flexible suit that will have a lesser tendency to get stuck on things or limit bend by pieces of it pressing against eachother while doing things like; climbing, sculking etc.. justifying the better checkpenalty, while having a worse dex-mod when faststepping due to its weight.

Same Idea with the mechanicaly joint together full-plate vs the unfitted half-plate, where the interlocks of the full suit is smooth with standard evasive sidestepping or ducking maneuvers, but when turning to acrobatics the looser fit of a half-plate might actually be a benefit.

- On a sidenote should be mentioned that we also use a variant active defence mod, wich is suffering from checkpenalties. Effectively making high BAB characters tending towards low cp armor and heavy proficient medium BAB classes like the cleric the advocats of full-plate. The () numbers may do more justice to the standard system, and make the choise between splint and half-plate better.

-

Playing this game and exploring the system it becomes increasingly clear to me how well thought through every detail is for establishing balance. Even to the point of taking over the mood and feel sometimes but impressive even so.

I don't pretend to be expert material of its mechanics, so keep that in mind if you find our idea appealing. It might well be that I have missed some key factor that makes the standard already tackle this thing?

I also know that gold is the name of the game. A signature of the old "kill the dragon, steal its treassure, and buy better equipment" legacy I gather ;) , and that's what I think this may be from.

Anyway your thoughts are most appreaciated!
Repeekluos
10-03-06, 08:06 PM Its all about the gold.
Tony Vargas
10-03-06, 08:26 PM Check this out: Rebalancing Armor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=703075).

Yes, the heavy armors other than full plate don't have much to recomend them, apart from being cheaper - but not cheap enough for 1st level characters to purchase. Splint in particular is decidedly inferior.

My solution is to boost the AC of all three by 1, and the DEX bonus of banded & splint by 1, as well; then bring the cost of Splint down to 1st-level affordability. That makes Banded an alternative to Full Plate for DEX 14+ characters, Half-Plate a cheap alternative to Full Plate for 10- DEX characters, and Splint a viable 'starting' armor, like scale, but for the low-DEX set.
Ungenanir
10-04-06, 05:47 PM Ah..yes that makes good sense too. Seeing that there is still a good gap on both check penalty and max dex to the medium armor set, ending at breast-plate.

I am a little hesitant about boosting the AC, even more to up both AC and max dex, though. Feels like it might overpower the armor as to what it is expected to be come all other mechanics in the game?

Not that +1 seam that much, but still.

I like your solution anyway. Simple and more consistant than mine. Might just use yours for a camp or two to see how it plays out :)
Tony Vargas
10-04-06, 06:01 PM The idea is that the non-full-plate heavy armors just don't add anything.

If normal splint, your AC is 16; in banded it can be 17, with a 12+ DEX; in half-plate it's 17, no matter how your DEX. Then, in full plate, you're AC 18, 19 if you have a DEX bonus - it's just flat-out better. And, the only time a PC is likely to be unable to afford Full Plate, but /able/ to afford other heavies is around 2nd level. That's not much of a window of viability.

Adding to the AC & max DEX of those armors doesn't overpower them, it just pushes them up in the direction of full plate, so some character, somewhere, might choose them.

Banded, at AC 17, 19 with a 14+ DEX becomes the choice of good-DEX characters who choose heavy armor (high DEX characters will more likely choose medium or light).

Half-Plate become OK if you have no DEX bonus - at AC 18, no worse than full plate, but not as good if you have a DEX bonus.

And, Splint, with the reduced cost (and the same potential 17 AC as scale and chain), can be relegated to 'low level starting armor.'
Solik
10-04-06, 09:53 PM You think that's bad? Compare the medium armor list to the chain shirt.

The thread Tony linked up there is an attempt to deal with all the rather odd armor issues in 3.5. Contributions welcome!
Ungenanir
10-04-06, 09:56 PM Yeah , It is beautifull really. I came to the insight just from reading your first reply and looking at the changed chart.

I always looked on banded as the skilled fighters armor, well it just looks fighter. Full plate is so Templeknightish. Is splint cheap though?
Where was it used?

Somehow I place it late in the middle-ages, you know just after the winched crossbow proved plate obsolete only to be confirmed by the gunpowder, and thoose only torso fat belly style plate became the norm.

I can see something splint-like in my head on the lighter leather things ..ah ..Im probably way off.

It is fantasy anyway.

----
edit:

Didnt notice your reply at first Solk.
So it isnt just me then :) , good thread . Il have to dig in to ti
Mitchell
10-04-06, 10:59 PM I have toyed with the idea of all armor providing the same basic protection when dex is factored in (padded would provide a +1 armor mod with a max dex of +11, while full plate would provide a +12 armor mod with a max dex of 0). There's more to it than that, but this isn't really the place.
I'm playing right now, so I haven't actually tried it out, but I figure it gives everyone a best armor, and people will choose based on that. As it is right now, it's pretty much 5 or 6 armors and everything else is inferior, and that includes hide which is only really an option for druids since no one else in their right mind would want it. :cool:
Solik
10-05-06, 11:57 AM While that method is balanced, it's not really interesting. You might as well give everyone armor that's 12 - their dex mod and be done with it. The trick is to work interesting aspects into armor like is done with weapons (crit ranges, trip/disarm abilities, and range makes weapon choices interesting; armor should have some similar aspects).
Save-vs-DM
10-10-06, 07:33 AM Armor Revisited
This is my attempt at “rebalancing” armor. I tried to keep as many of the original values as possible, but I tweaked a few things for playability and uniqueness. The biggest change was to Hide armor, which I have always thought to be pathetic. By upping the AC by one and adding in two little bonuses that appeal to druids, you avoid the “druids in leather armor” plague that seems to be so common. I’ve always liked scale armor as well, and thought that for medium armor it was pretty darn pathetic. I upped the AC by one and allowed it be crafted as leather scale, as that was actually quite commonly done.

I’ve always felt that half-plate got royally screwed. I never bought that whole “it’s not fitted so it sucks” argument. So I upped the max dexterity by 2, making it the “dexterous heavy fighters armor.” I lowered the check penalty and arcane spell failure of half plate by one as well, though now it has to be fitted like full plate. The good news is that it’s now actually worth taking.

I lowered the price of splint armor down to 125 gp, to put it in the range of “rich” 1st level fighters (given that a fighter can start with as much as 240 gp, it now gives the fighter a solid 1st level armor, making splint just a bit more attractive for a few levels). I lowered the armor check penalty of banded, to make it more of the “skilled fighters” sort of armor.

The biggest change was to the speed of armors. I decided to ditch the speed reduction of armor and just let the encumbrance of gear carried take care of speed reductions. It never made sense to me that a massively strong character would be slowed by armor, so I got rid of it.

Any comments and critiques are certainly welcome.

Armor Cost AC MxDx ACP ASF Weight
Light Armor
Padded 5 gp +1 +8 0 5% 10 lb.
Leather 10 gp +2 +6 0 10% 15 lb.
Studded Leather 25 gp +3 +5 -1 15% 20 lb.
Chain Shirt 100 gp +4 +4 -2 20% 25 lb.
Medium Armor
Hide 25 gp +4 +3 -4 20% 30 lb.
Scale Armor 75 gp +5 +3 -4 30% 35 lb.
Chainmail 150 gp +6 +1 -5 35% 40 lb.
Breastplate 200 gp +5 +3 -4 25% 35 lb.
Heavy Armor
Splint Armor 125 gp +6 +0 -6 40% 40 lb.
Banded Armor 250 gp +6 +1 -5 35% 35 lb.
Half-plate 600 gp +7 +2 -6 35% 45 lb.
Full Plate 1,500 gp +8 +1 -6 40% 50 lb.

Half-Plate: Half plate must be fitted just as full plate, save that it costs 1d4x50 gp to refit.

Hide: Because hide armor is crafted from materials commonly found in a forest setting, the armor check penalty from Hide armor does not affect Hide checks made in forested areas. In addition, the latent scents from Hide armor confer a +2 circumstance bonus on Wild Empathy checks when dealing with animals (but not magical beasts).

Scale: Scale armor, unlike other armors, may be made of either steel or leather, as the crafter desires. Both sets of armor use identical statistics, save that druids can wear leather scale armor without violating their oaths.

Speed: Whether or not you are slowed by wearing armor is a function of your carrying capacity, not the armor itself. A strong character can more easily move in heavier armors, and a weak character might actually be slowed by even the lightest of armor.

Masterwork Armor: Just as with weapons, you can purchase or craft masterwork version of armor or shields. Such a well-made item functions like the normal version, except that its armor check penalty is lessened by 1. A masterwork suit of armor or shield costs double the normal price of a standard suit or armor or shield.

Mastercraft Armor: Occasionally, armor can be created as a Mastercraft. Mastercraft armor functions identically to masterwork armor, save that the maximum dexterity bonus of Mastercraft armor is 1 greater than normal. Mastercraft armor costs quadruple the normal price of a standard suit of armor.

Cheers,
Save vs DM
Radagast
10-10-06, 12:34 PM Interesting ideas here...

I could also see Hide armor granting a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks, depending upon what hide was used to make it.

More interesting abilities with regards to armor would be an improvment, IMHO.
Patrick Draken-Korin
10-12-06, 12:51 PM I've been keeping track of these threads, and today I found something that might be of interest in the unearthed arcana board; varying AC based on attacking weapon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10337697#post10337697).

The most useful thing I saw was the link by True Cavalier on post #6 (pasted here for your convinence); Table: armor Vs weapon types (http://firkraag.wordpress.com/2006/09/11/armor-vs-weapon-types). Other than that I can see some intersting things in that thread, though they flow against the grain of what I'm working on myself (though I expect that you could get more out of it).

Also, making half-plate fitted to the wearer (for +2 max dex) makes perfect sense to me; I'm implimenting it immediately.
Ungenanir
12-10-06, 09:51 PM Cool!

good research Patrick!

This Idea is very similar to how ICE handled armor and armor class.

In their case they had the armor type be different in effect againts attack types wich is very realistic.

Chain good vs slashing

Leather good vs bashing

studded inmprove vs slashing

etc..

One example in rl is the chain vs slashing. Historians have tested the super fine tuned slanging Katana againt a simple chainmail shirt.
It is practically useless against it not even breaking on chain ring.
Feudal Japan saw no chainmail, so the sharper the better, where as in europe they stopped bothering even to sharpen the sided of there blades knowing only a sharp tip could bursth the chain open.

ICE's doom however was the over focus on realism and lack of smoothness overall.

This Idea might still be a good one. If nothing else at least very interesting.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ungenanir 10-03-06, 03:05 PM	Maby this is just another boring small detail thing..I don't know, but it is something that keeps bothering me. Most armor have benefits and drawbacks to some degree in the form of: AC, CP, M-DEX, SF, and Weight. ( Leather types are a good choise if you are very agile or a semi-spellcaster where plate will be optimal for a not so nimble but massive pure fighter ) If the numbers are perfectly logical and realistic or not strikes me as less important than the simple fact that they are different, making the choice intressting. This is why I get a bit anoyed when I eye the heavy armor section comparing the splint and the banded mail to eachother, and then the half-plate with the full-plate. Other than cost banded mail is better in all stats to its metal ribbon counterpart and the full-plate is the same to the partly plated option. This makes for poor diversity, and though NPC's, for purpouses of cultural style maby, will show up in all variants...what player in his right mind would buy splint-mail for the measly 50gp better price? In most campaigns eventuallt price will not be a factor so in due time the fighters and paladins will all wear full-plate! How diverse is that? - To me this just appeared like a missprint in the in my old 3.0 PHB. In Neverwinter Nights, the computorgame most of you probably are familiar with, wich does its best to emulate the D&D rules the banded and spint are identical in numbers ( if I remember right ), which is actually better in my opinion because it makes the choise an "Inky binky boo" purely style preference thing. Because of this I was expecting to see the same changes in 3.5, but no cigar there! - Not that I or the other player in our gaming group have any clue to what the actual differences would be like in numbers between the armor types, but we just wanted some benefits to all armor over the other. Here is how we changed it following the original stats: (Perhaps you people have better ideas or maby find it usefull) PHB 3.5; AC/M-DEX/CP/SF Splint-mail: +6/0/-7/40% Banded mail: +6/1/-6/35% - Half-plate: +7/0/-7/40% Full-plate: +8/1/-6/35% ________________ MOD; AC/M-DEX/CP/SF Splint-mail: +6/0/-6/35% Banded mail: +6/1/-7/35% - Half-plate: +7/0/-6(-7)/40% Full-plate: +8/1/-7(-8)/35% _________________ - Our reasoning was to view the splintmail as though heavier and more encumbersome as a softer more flexible suit that will have a lesser tendency to get stuck on things or limit bend by pieces of it pressing against eachother while doing things like; climbing, sculking etc.. justifying the better checkpenalty, while having a worse dex-mod when faststepping due to its weight. Same Idea with the mechanicaly joint together full-plate vs the unfitted half-plate, where the interlocks of the full suit is smooth with standard evasive sidestepping or ducking maneuvers, but when turning to acrobatics the looser fit of a half-plate might actually be a benefit. - On a sidenote should be mentioned that we also use a variant active defence mod, wich is suffering from checkpenalties. Effectively making high BAB characters tending towards low cp armor and heavy proficient medium BAB classes like the cleric the advocats of full-plate. The () numbers may do more justice to the standard system, and make the choise between splint and half-plate better. - Playing this game and exploring the system it becomes increasingly clear to me how well thought through every detail is for establishing balance. Even to the point of taking over the mood and feel sometimes but impressive even so. I don't pretend to be expert material of its mechanics, so keep that in mind if you find our idea appealing. It might well be that I have missed some key factor that makes the standard already tackle this thing? I also know that gold is the name of the game. A signature of the old "kill the dragon, steal its treassure, and buy better equipment" legacy I gather ;) , and that's what I think this may be from. Anyway your thoughts are most appreaciated!
Repeekluos 10-03-06, 08:06 PM	Its all about the gold.
Tony Vargas 10-03-06, 08:26 PM	Check this out: Rebalancing Armor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=703075). Yes, the heavy armors other than full plate don't have much to recomend them, apart from being cheaper - but not cheap enough for 1st level characters to purchase. Splint in particular is decidedly inferior. My solution is to boost the AC of all three by 1, and the DEX bonus of banded & splint by 1, as well; then bring the cost of Splint down to 1st-level affordability. That makes Banded an alternative to Full Plate for DEX 14+ characters, Half-Plate a cheap alternative to Full Plate for 10- DEX characters, and Splint a viable 'starting' armor, like scale, but for the low-DEX set.
Ungenanir 10-04-06, 05:47 PM	Ah..yes that makes good sense too. Seeing that there is still a good gap on both check penalty and max dex to the medium armor set, ending at breast-plate. I am a little hesitant about boosting the AC, even more to up both AC and max dex, though. Feels like it might overpower the armor as to what it is expected to be come all other mechanics in the game? Not that +1 seam that much, but still. I like your solution anyway. Simple and more consistant than mine. Might just use yours for a camp or two to see how it plays out :)
Tony Vargas 10-04-06, 06:01 PM	The idea is that the non-full-plate heavy armors just don't add anything. If normal splint, your AC is 16; in banded it can be 17, with a 12+ DEX; in half-plate it's 17, no matter how your DEX. Then, in full plate, you're AC 18, 19 if you have a DEX bonus - it's just flat-out better. And, the only time a PC is likely to be unable to afford Full Plate, but /able/ to afford other heavies is around 2nd level. That's not much of a window of viability. Adding to the AC & max DEX of those armors doesn't overpower them, it just pushes them up in the direction of full plate, so some character, somewhere, might choose them. Banded, at AC 17, 19 with a 14+ DEX becomes the choice of good-DEX characters who choose heavy armor (high DEX characters will more likely choose medium or light). Half-Plate become OK if you have no DEX bonus - at AC 18, no worse than full plate, but not as good if you have a DEX bonus. And, Splint, with the reduced cost (and the same potential 17 AC as scale and chain), can be relegated to 'low level starting armor.'
Solik 10-04-06, 09:53 PM	You think that's bad? Compare the medium armor list to the chain shirt. The thread Tony linked up there is an attempt to deal with all the rather odd armor issues in 3.5. Contributions welcome!
Ungenanir 10-04-06, 09:56 PM	Yeah , It is beautifull really. I came to the insight just from reading your first reply and looking at the changed chart. I always looked on banded as the skilled fighters armor, well it just looks fighter. Full plate is so Templeknightish. Is splint cheap though? Where was it used? Somehow I place it late in the middle-ages, you know just after the winched crossbow proved plate obsolete only to be confirmed by the gunpowder, and thoose only torso fat belly style plate became the norm. I can see something splint-like in my head on the lighter leather things ..ah ..Im probably way off. It is fantasy anyway. ---- edit: Didnt notice your reply at first Solk. So it isnt just me then :) , good thread . Il have to dig in to ti
Mitchell 10-04-06, 10:59 PM	I have toyed with the idea of all armor providing the same basic protection when dex is factored in (padded would provide a +1 armor mod with a max dex of +11, while full plate would provide a +12 armor mod with a max dex of 0). There's more to it than that, but this isn't really the place. I'm playing right now, so I haven't actually tried it out, but I figure it gives everyone a best armor, and people will choose based on that. As it is right now, it's pretty much 5 or 6 armors and everything else is inferior, and that includes hide which is only really an option for druids since no one else in their right mind would want it. :cool:
Solik 10-05-06, 11:57 AM	While that method is balanced, it's not really interesting. You might as well give everyone armor that's 12 - their dex mod and be done with it. The trick is to work interesting aspects into armor like is done with weapons (crit ranges, trip/disarm abilities, and range makes weapon choices interesting; armor should have some similar aspects).
Save-vs-DM 10-10-06, 07:33 AM	Armor Revisited This is my attempt at “rebalancing” armor. I tried to keep as many of the original values as possible, but I tweaked a few things for playability and uniqueness. The biggest change was to Hide armor, which I have always thought to be pathetic. By upping the AC by one and adding in two little bonuses that appeal to druids, you avoid the “druids in leather armor” plague that seems to be so common. I’ve always liked scale armor as well, and thought that for medium armor it was pretty darn pathetic. I upped the AC by one and allowed it be crafted as leather scale, as that was actually quite commonly done. I’ve always felt that half-plate got royally screwed. I never bought that whole “it’s not fitted so it sucks” argument. So I upped the max dexterity by 2, making it the “dexterous heavy fighters armor.” I lowered the check penalty and arcane spell failure of half plate by one as well, though now it has to be fitted like full plate. The good news is that it’s now actually worth taking. I lowered the price of splint armor down to 125 gp, to put it in the range of “rich” 1st level fighters (given that a fighter can start with as much as 240 gp, it now gives the fighter a solid 1st level armor, making splint just a bit more attractive for a few levels). I lowered the armor check penalty of banded, to make it more of the “skilled fighters” sort of armor. The biggest change was to the speed of armors. I decided to ditch the speed reduction of armor and just let the encumbrance of gear carried take care of speed reductions. It never made sense to me that a massively strong character would be slowed by armor, so I got rid of it. Any comments and critiques are certainly welcome. Armor Cost AC MxDx ACP ASF Weight Light Armor Padded 5 gp +1 +8 0 5% 10 lb. Leather 10 gp +2 +6 0 10% 15 lb. Studded Leather 25 gp +3 +5 -1 15% 20 lb. Chain Shirt 100 gp +4 +4 -2 20% 25 lb. Medium Armor Hide 25 gp +4 +3 -4 20% 30 lb. Scale Armor 75 gp +5 +3 -4 30% 35 lb. Chainmail 150 gp +6 +1 -5 35% 40 lb. Breastplate 200 gp +5 +3 -4 25% 35 lb. Heavy Armor Splint Armor 125 gp +6 +0 -6 40% 40 lb. Banded Armor 250 gp +6 +1 -5 35% 35 lb. Half-plate 600 gp +7 +2 -6 35% 45 lb. Full Plate 1,500 gp +8 +1 -6 40% 50 lb. Half-Plate: Half plate must be fitted just as full plate, save that it costs 1d4x50 gp to refit. Hide: Because hide armor is crafted from materials commonly found in a forest setting, the armor check penalty from Hide armor does not affect Hide checks made in forested areas. In addition, the latent scents from Hide armor confer a +2 circumstance bonus on Wild Empathy checks when dealing with animals (but not magical beasts). Scale: Scale armor, unlike other armors, may be made of either steel or leather, as the crafter desires. Both sets of armor use identical statistics, save that druids can wear leather scale armor without violating their oaths. Speed: Whether or not you are slowed by wearing armor is a function of your carrying capacity, not the armor itself. A strong character can more easily move in heavier armors, and a weak character might actually be slowed by even the lightest of armor. Masterwork Armor: Just as with weapons, you can purchase or craft masterwork version of armor or shields. Such a well-made item functions like the normal version, except that its armor check penalty is lessened by 1. A masterwork suit of armor or shield costs double the normal price of a standard suit or armor or shield. Mastercraft Armor: Occasionally, armor can be created as a Mastercraft. Mastercraft armor functions identically to masterwork armor, save that the maximum dexterity bonus of Mastercraft armor is 1 greater than normal. Mastercraft armor costs quadruple the normal price of a standard suit of armor. Cheers, Save vs DM
Radagast 10-10-06, 12:34 PM	Interesting ideas here... I could also see Hide armor granting a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks, depending upon what hide was used to make it. More interesting abilities with regards to armor would be an improvment, IMHO.
Patrick Draken-Korin 10-12-06, 12:51 PM	I've been keeping track of these threads, and today I found something that might be of interest in the unearthed arcana board; varying AC based on attacking weapon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10337697#post10337697). The most useful thing I saw was the link by True Cavalier on post #6 (pasted here for your convinence); Table: armor Vs weapon types (http://firkraag.wordpress.com/2006/09/11/armor-vs-weapon-types). Other than that I can see some intersting things in that thread, though they flow against the grain of what I'm working on myself (though I expect that you could get more out of it). Also, making half-plate fitted to the wearer (for +2 max dex) makes perfect sense to me; I'm implimenting it immediately.
Ungenanir 12-10-06, 09:51 PM	Cool! good research Patrick! This Idea is very similar to how ICE handled armor and armor class. In their case they had the armor type be different in effect againts attack types wich is very realistic. Chain good vs slashing Leather good vs bashing studded inmprove vs slashing etc.. One example in rl is the chain vs slashing. Historians have tested the super fine tuned slanging Katana againt a simple chainmail shirt. It is practically useless against it not even breaking on chain ring. Feudal Japan saw no chainmail, so the sharper the better, where as in europe they stopped bothering even to sharpen the sided of there blades knowing only a sharp tip could bursth the chain open. ICE's doom however was the over focus on realism and lack of smoothness overall. This Idea might still be a good one. If nothing else at least very interesting.