Armor and Shield Proficiencies Similiar to Weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor and Shield Proficiencies Similiar to Weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pres_man
09-16-05, 06:26 PM Has anyone ever considered breaking up the armor and shields into proficiencies similiar to weapons (changing a few of the core classes proficiencies in the process)?

Such as for bards, clerics, druids, and rogues, they might be proficient in (Simple):
Light: Padded, Leather
Medium: Hide, Scale mail
Heavy: Splint mail, Banded mail
Shields: Buckler, Light (wooden/steel)

For barbarians and rangers they would have proficiency in the above simple gear and the following (Martial):
Light: Studded Leather
Medium: Chainmail
Heavy: Half-Plate
Shield: Heavy (wooden/steel)

And for fighters and paladins, they would have proficiency in all of the above and the following (pseudo-Exotic):
Light: Chain shirt
Medium: Breastplate
Heavy: Full plate
Shields: Tower (fighter only)

Lets say that the special abilites still apply due to weight (rangers can only two-weapon fight in light armor, barbarians only get bonus speed in medium or light, bards wearing heavier than light have chance for spell failure, etc.). Then when we had questions of a barbarian wearing mithral heavy armor and what benefits they get, well as long as its not mithral full plate (and he doesn't have any class giving him that proficiency) then he doesn't take a penalty to attack. If he is wearing mithral full plate then he takes the penalty since he isn't proficient in it (it isn't on his list above).

I think something like this would get more use out of the other types of armor. And would also seem to be more in tune with how the weapons are.

Any comments? What do you think? I'm not about to start applying this to my own game, but it is just something I thought about, and wanted to see what you all thought.
Nom
09-17-05, 10:26 AM I don't get what you mean by "similar to weapons". Aren't they already similar?

Weapons:
- simple weapons, group prof.
- martial weapons, group or single prof.
- exotic weapons, single prof.

Armour + Shields:
- light armour, group prof.
- medium armour, group prof.
- heavy armour, group prof.
- shields, group prof.
- tower shield, single prof.

It seems to me that armour proficiencies are already finer-grained than weapon proficiencies.

Or are you asking about cutting the proficiencies orthogonally to the weights? This doesn't really make sense. All light armours are basically similar, all medium armours are basically similar, and all heavy armours are basically similar. There's no real notion of "easy to use" vs "hard to use" light armour.
pres_man
09-17-05, 12:59 PM I see the weights (light, medium, heavy) as more akin to the handedness in weapons (light, one-handed, two-handed). So weapons actually are broke up into 9 categories, not 3.

Weapons:
- simple weapons, group prof.
light, one-handed, two-handed

- martial weapons, group or single prof.
light, one-handed, two-handed

- exotic weapons, single prof.
light, one-handed, two-handed

Also we might want to separate armor from shields, so there are currently only 3 categories of armor (light, medium, heavy). Shields only have two (non-tower and tower).

My idea is to try to justify having 12 different types of armor, when really there is only maybe 5-6 types that are worth having. There is no real balance when it comes to the armors (unlike the weapons). Why would anyone use scale mail or even chainmail when you could use a breastplate? Cost? Yeah, if your 1-3 level character maybe, after that the difference in basic cost is pretty small, proportion wise.

Even full plate is pretty much a given after 5th level for tank fighters. How many people ever invest in magic half-plate or banded armor? Oh yeah, nobody, because those armors are crap.

With my idea, you'd have guys running around with magic banded armor. "Why do you have that banded armor?" "Because I'm a cleric. I'm not proficient with full-plate."
Nom
09-17-05, 06:20 PM Even full plate is pretty much a given after 5th level for tank fighters. How many people ever invest in magic half-plate or banded armor? Oh yeah, nobody, because those armors are crap.Ultimately, this, rather than any proficiency system, is the problem.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pres_man 09-16-05, 06:26 PM	Has anyone ever considered breaking up the armor and shields into proficiencies similiar to weapons (changing a few of the core classes proficiencies in the process)? Such as for bards, clerics, druids, and rogues, they might be proficient in (Simple): Light: Padded, Leather Medium: Hide, Scale mail Heavy: Splint mail, Banded mail Shields: Buckler, Light (wooden/steel) For barbarians and rangers they would have proficiency in the above simple gear and the following (Martial): Light: Studded Leather Medium: Chainmail Heavy: Half-Plate Shield: Heavy (wooden/steel) And for fighters and paladins, they would have proficiency in all of the above and the following (pseudo-Exotic): Light: Chain shirt Medium: Breastplate Heavy: Full plate Shields: Tower (fighter only) Lets say that the special abilites still apply due to weight (rangers can only two-weapon fight in light armor, barbarians only get bonus speed in medium or light, bards wearing heavier than light have chance for spell failure, etc.). Then when we had questions of a barbarian wearing mithral heavy armor and what benefits they get, well as long as its not mithral full plate (and he doesn't have any class giving him that proficiency) then he doesn't take a penalty to attack. If he is wearing mithral full plate then he takes the penalty since he isn't proficient in it (it isn't on his list above). I think something like this would get more use out of the other types of armor. And would also seem to be more in tune with how the weapons are. Any comments? What do you think? I'm not about to start applying this to my own game, but it is just something I thought about, and wanted to see what you all thought.
Nom 09-17-05, 10:26 AM	I don't get what you mean by "similar to weapons". Aren't they already similar? Weapons: - simple weapons, group prof. - martial weapons, group or single prof. - exotic weapons, single prof. Armour + Shields: - light armour, group prof. - medium armour, group prof. - heavy armour, group prof. - shields, group prof. - tower shield, single prof. It seems to me that armour proficiencies are already finer-grained than weapon proficiencies. Or are you asking about cutting the proficiencies orthogonally to the weights? This doesn't really make sense. All light armours are basically similar, all medium armours are basically similar, and all heavy armours are basically similar. There's no real notion of "easy to use" vs "hard to use" light armour.
pres_man 09-17-05, 12:59 PM	I see the weights (light, medium, heavy) as more akin to the handedness in weapons (light, one-handed, two-handed). So weapons actually are broke up into 9 categories, not 3. Weapons: - simple weapons, group prof. light, one-handed, two-handed - martial weapons, group or single prof. light, one-handed, two-handed - exotic weapons, single prof. light, one-handed, two-handed Also we might want to separate armor from shields, so there are currently only 3 categories of armor (light, medium, heavy). Shields only have two (non-tower and tower). My idea is to try to justify having 12 different types of armor, when really there is only maybe 5-6 types that are worth having. There is no real balance when it comes to the armors (unlike the weapons). Why would anyone use scale mail or even chainmail when you could use a breastplate? Cost? Yeah, if your 1-3 level character maybe, after that the difference in basic cost is pretty small, proportion wise. Even full plate is pretty much a given after 5th level for tank fighters. How many people ever invest in magic half-plate or banded armor? Oh yeah, nobody, because those armors are crap. With my idea, you'd have guys running around with magic banded armor. "Why do you have that banded armor?" "Because I'm a cleric. I'm not proficient with full-plate."
Nom 09-17-05, 06:20 PM	Even full plate is pretty much a given after 5th level for tank fighters. How many people ever invest in magic half-plate or banded armor? Oh yeah, nobody, because those armors are crap.Ultimately, this, rather than any proficiency system, is the problem.