Armor Augment Crystal [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor Augment Crystal [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kn1ves
05-03-07, 02:36 PM The Greater Iron Ward Diamond says that it grants DR 5/- up to 50 points of damage a day but can only be put in heavy armor. Does that mean it can only be put on a suit of heavy armor or can it also be attached to something that gives an armor bonus of +6 to +8 such as a pair of Bracers of Armor?
Gnarl
05-03-07, 02:52 PM Are you sure you can attach armor crystals on bracers of armor in the first place?
Kn1ves
05-03-07, 02:57 PM No, I'm not. That's why I'm asking.
Drachasor
05-03-07, 03:00 PM You can attach armor augment crystals to bracers of armor, as long as the bonus is sufficient. That is +3 Bracers of Armor or better can hold any typical armor crystal. However, since bracers of armor aren't light, medium, or heavy armor, any crystal that requires one of those or better isn't usable with bracers.

-Drachasor
CipherTheory
05-03-07, 03:03 PM No, you cannot. "Heavy Armor" has a specific meaning in D&D which is in no way related to the actual armor bonus that it gives. For example a suit of Mithral Full Plate grants the +8 to AC of regular full plate armor, but is only a medium armor since it's made of mithral. Likewise, bracers of armor grant an armor bonus to AC, but aren't actually armor at all! (Other armor augment crystals, ones that don't specify the weight of the armor you're attaching them to, will still work with the BoA though.)
Empiro
05-03-07, 03:49 PM I don't have the Magic Item Compendium in front of me, but unless the crystals specifically say you can put them on bracers, you should not be able to attach them.

The reason being that though Bracers of Armor grant an armor bonus, they're not considered armor at all.
Kn1ves
05-03-07, 04:21 PM The reason being that though Bracers of Armor grant an armor bonus, they're not considered armor at all.

I'm fairly positive that if you can enchant them with special properties reserved for armor then they are considered armor.
Empiro
05-03-07, 04:46 PM Well, that's the thing isn't it -- unless I'm mistaken, you can't enchant bracers of armor with armor properties.

The second reason is that for classes that cannot wear any armor, like monks, Bracers of Armor aren't considered armor, so to me, it's one of those can't-have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too things. Either Bracers of Armor are considered armor for all features and limitations, or they aren't.
overelemental
05-03-07, 04:58 PM Well, that's the thing isn't it -- unless I'm mistaken, you can't enchant bracers of armor with armor properties.

Actually, you can. But I agree they shouldn't count as armour apart from that.
Merestil Haye
05-03-07, 05:45 PM Bracers should not count as armour.

All armour has four stats - armour bonus to AC, Armour Check Penalty, Arcane Spell Failure chance and Max Dex Bonus to AC. Anything which provides only the first is not armour. This is why Monks can wear Bracers of Armour without losing their class abilities.

That's a good test actually - if monks can wear it and retain class abilities it's not armour and can't accept an armour augment crystal of any kind.
KurenaiYami
05-03-07, 05:55 PM Actually, you can. But I agree they shouldn't count as armour apart from that.

Yeah, but that's only really touched on in Arms & Equipment Guide, a 3.0 splat book, so it's optional material at best.

Unless they talk about that in Magic Item Compendium as well. In which case, disregard this post, though that's still optional.
Drachasor
05-03-07, 06:57 PM MIC specifically says you can put armor crystals on Bracers of Armor.

-Drachasor
Fallenangel359
05-03-07, 07:38 PM where in MIC does it say that, may I ask?
Drachasor
05-03-07, 07:43 PM where in MIC does it say that, may I ask?

When it goes over how you use augmentation crystals. Page 221, precisely.
Pandaemoni
05-03-07, 07:52 PM When it goes over how you use augmentation crystals. Page 221, precisely.

While the rules do say that armor augment crystals can generally be attackhed to anything that grants an armor bonus, I still don't think the Greater Iron Ward Diamond will work on anything less than "heavy armor" as identified by the rules. Most armor crystals do not have that sort of specific limitation, and nothing in the rules really defines when bracers "become" heavy armor (and since it's not obvious that they do, I'd expect a specific rule to that effect is that was intended by the designers).

A least Iron Ward Diamond, on the other hand, would work if attached to bracers.
Drachasor
05-03-07, 09:05 PM Ergo my first post in this thread.
Nathreet
05-03-07, 10:06 PM I'm gonna agree with, "no". Not b/c bracers aren't armor, they do qualify. But because they aren't heavy armor.
Neutronium_Dragon
05-03-07, 10:06 PM Having an armor bonus, even one comparable to heavy armor, does not make the bracers into heavy armor. They're still bracers, and thus ineligible.
Merestil Haye
05-04-07, 06:18 AM I found the rules, and it does indeed tell you that the crystals can be attached to "anything that provides an armour bonus," which Bracers of Armour certainly do. I have issues with allowing Lesser or Greater crystals to attach to non-armour items though, because those items don't provide an enhancement bonus of any kind, and that is the test used.

It's not that relevant to this case, because the item description limits what the item will work with to "heavy armour" and bracers don't meet that.
forsaken1111
05-04-07, 11:57 AM I found the rules, and it does indeed tell you that the crystals can be attached to "anything that provides an armour bonus,"

Sweet, I'm attaching the armor crystal to my semisolid plane of force conjured by Mage Armor.
eamon
06-04-07, 02:43 PM Sweet, I'm attaching the armor crystal to my semisolid plane of force conjured by Mage Armor.
Ah a troll... But just to clarify, it specifies that you can attack it to any magic item providing an armor bonus.

More interesting... can you attach one to your ring of force shield? I'm supposing not; as it's not a permanent effect but simply abjures a spell occasionally. It's the spell that then provides the shield bonus; not the ring itself.

It's a pretty flimsy mechanic in terms of believability, though, but otherwise monks couldn't use crystals at all (and it's not like they're a particularly powerful class, so relatively weakening them further wouldn't exactly help).
Fallenangel359
06-04-07, 03:00 PM not a powerful class?

my monk 12 drunken master 14 ECL 26 character would like to disagree :P

Lol he has his body slot enhanced with force armor +1, with heavy fort, and soulfire, and then his bracer slot with high AC bracers that have elemental resistance (force field, go), and the body slot has crystal of aquatic action, and the bracers have crystal of adaption, my right gauntlet has crystal of demolition, my left gauntlet has crystal of illumination, my folding chair of salvation (+1 holy) has a fiendslayer crystal (I only pull that out for special occassions, like god killing, which I did do, abeit humorously

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=859596

That post is actually worth a read :P

I like crystals :P
Spikes01k
06-04-07, 03:18 PM I'm fairly positive that if you can enchant them with special properties reserved for armor then they are considered armor.

If you can find it some where that bracers with enough AC to equal that of heavy it is considered heavy armor then all for it. Other wise I think your stuck with the fact that IT DOES NOT WORK.

I don't mean to be harsh, but, the way I read it, they made this to give the lonely fighters something that the casters can't, It happens, wooow startaling concept.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kn1ves 05-03-07, 02:36 PM	The Greater Iron Ward Diamond says that it grants DR 5/- up to 50 points of damage a day but can only be put in heavy armor. Does that mean it can only be put on a suit of heavy armor or can it also be attached to something that gives an armor bonus of +6 to +8 such as a pair of Bracers of Armor?
Gnarl 05-03-07, 02:52 PM	Are you sure you can attach armor crystals on bracers of armor in the first place?
Kn1ves 05-03-07, 02:57 PM	No, I'm not. That's why I'm asking.
Drachasor 05-03-07, 03:00 PM	You can attach armor augment crystals to bracers of armor, as long as the bonus is sufficient. That is +3 Bracers of Armor or better can hold any typical armor crystal. However, since bracers of armor aren't light, medium, or heavy armor, any crystal that requires one of those or better isn't usable with bracers. -Drachasor
CipherTheory 05-03-07, 03:03 PM	No, you cannot. "Heavy Armor" has a specific meaning in D&D which is in no way related to the actual armor bonus that it gives. For example a suit of Mithral Full Plate grants the +8 to AC of regular full plate armor, but is only a medium armor since it's made of mithral. Likewise, bracers of armor grant an armor bonus to AC, but aren't actually armor at all! (Other armor augment crystals, ones that don't specify the weight of the armor you're attaching them to, will still work with the BoA though.)
Empiro 05-03-07, 03:49 PM	I don't have the Magic Item Compendium in front of me, but unless the crystals specifically say you can put them on bracers, you should not be able to attach them. The reason being that though Bracers of Armor grant an armor bonus, they're not considered armor at all.
Kn1ves 05-03-07, 04:21 PM	The reason being that though Bracers of Armor grant an armor bonus, they're not considered armor at all. I'm fairly positive that if you can enchant them with special properties reserved for armor then they are considered armor.
Empiro 05-03-07, 04:46 PM	Well, that's the thing isn't it -- unless I'm mistaken, you can't enchant bracers of armor with armor properties. The second reason is that for classes that cannot wear any armor, like monks, Bracers of Armor aren't considered armor, so to me, it's one of those can't-have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too things. Either Bracers of Armor are considered armor for all features and limitations, or they aren't.
overelemental 05-03-07, 04:58 PM	Well, that's the thing isn't it -- unless I'm mistaken, you can't enchant bracers of armor with armor properties. Actually, you can. But I agree they shouldn't count as armour apart from that.
Merestil Haye 05-03-07, 05:45 PM	Bracers should not count as armour. All armour has four stats - armour bonus to AC, Armour Check Penalty, Arcane Spell Failure chance and Max Dex Bonus to AC. Anything which provides only the first is not armour. This is why Monks can wear Bracers of Armour without losing their class abilities. That's a good test actually - if monks can wear it and retain class abilities it's not armour and can't accept an armour augment crystal of any kind.
KurenaiYami 05-03-07, 05:55 PM	Actually, you can. But I agree they shouldn't count as armour apart from that. Yeah, but that's only really touched on in Arms & Equipment Guide, a 3.0 splat book, so it's optional material at best. Unless they talk about that in Magic Item Compendium as well. In which case, disregard this post, though that's still optional.
Drachasor 05-03-07, 06:57 PM	MIC specifically says you can put armor crystals on Bracers of Armor. -Drachasor
Fallenangel359 05-03-07, 07:38 PM	where in MIC does it say that, may I ask?
Drachasor 05-03-07, 07:43 PM	where in MIC does it say that, may I ask? When it goes over how you use augmentation crystals. Page 221, precisely.
Pandaemoni 05-03-07, 07:52 PM	When it goes over how you use augmentation crystals. Page 221, precisely. While the rules do say that armor augment crystals can generally be attackhed to anything that grants an armor bonus, I still don't think the Greater Iron Ward Diamond will work on anything less than "heavy armor" as identified by the rules. Most armor crystals do not have that sort of specific limitation, and nothing in the rules really defines when bracers "become" heavy armor (and since it's not obvious that they do, I'd expect a specific rule to that effect is that was intended by the designers). A least Iron Ward Diamond, on the other hand, would work if attached to bracers.
Drachasor 05-03-07, 09:05 PM	Ergo my first post in this thread.
Nathreet 05-03-07, 10:06 PM	I'm gonna agree with, "no". Not b/c bracers aren't armor, they do qualify. But because they aren't heavy armor.
Neutronium_Dragon 05-03-07, 10:06 PM	Having an armor bonus, even one comparable to heavy armor, does not make the bracers into heavy armor. They're still bracers, and thus ineligible.
Merestil Haye 05-04-07, 06:18 AM	I found the rules, and it does indeed tell you that the crystals can be attached to "anything that provides an armour bonus," which Bracers of Armour certainly do. I have issues with allowing Lesser or Greater crystals to attach to non-armour items though, because those items don't provide an enhancement bonus of any kind, and that is the test used. It's not that relevant to this case, because the item description limits what the item will work with to "heavy armour" and bracers don't meet that.
forsaken1111 05-04-07, 11:57 AM	I found the rules, and it does indeed tell you that the crystals can be attached to "anything that provides an armour bonus," Sweet, I'm attaching the armor crystal to my semisolid plane of force conjured by Mage Armor.
eamon 06-04-07, 02:43 PM	Sweet, I'm attaching the armor crystal to my semisolid plane of force conjured by Mage Armor. Ah a troll... But just to clarify, it specifies that you can attack it to any magic item providing an armor bonus. More interesting... can you attach one to your ring of force shield? I'm supposing not; as it's not a permanent effect but simply abjures a spell occasionally. It's the spell that then provides the shield bonus; not the ring itself. It's a pretty flimsy mechanic in terms of believability, though, but otherwise monks couldn't use crystals at all (and it's not like they're a particularly powerful class, so relatively weakening them further wouldn't exactly help).
Fallenangel359 06-04-07, 03:00 PM	not a powerful class? my monk 12 drunken master 14 ECL 26 character would like to disagree :P Lol he has his body slot enhanced with force armor +1, with heavy fort, and soulfire, and then his bracer slot with high AC bracers that have elemental resistance (force field, go), and the body slot has crystal of aquatic action, and the bracers have crystal of adaption, my right gauntlet has crystal of demolition, my left gauntlet has crystal of illumination, my folding chair of salvation (+1 holy) has a fiendslayer crystal (I only pull that out for special occassions, like god killing, which I did do, abeit humorously http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=859596 That post is actually worth a read :P I like crystals :P
Spikes01k 06-04-07, 03:18 PM	I'm fairly positive that if you can enchant them with special properties reserved for armor then they are considered armor. If you can find it some where that bracers with enough AC to equal that of heavy it is considered heavy armor then all for it. Other wise I think your stuck with the fact that IT DOES NOT WORK. I don't mean to be harsh, but, the way I read it, they made this to give the lonely fighters something that the casters can't, It happens, wooow startaling concept.