Armor Check Penalty and non-proficiency [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor Check Penalty and non-proficiency [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kimokeo
02-18-06, 12:55 PM I am creating a 4th level Sorceror for a game. No, I don't want the fighter nor add a level of it. Straight Sorceror. 30hpts (CON18 w/ familiar +3) My question is about armor check penalties. My spells that I will be using is Expeditious Retreat as a Still Spell at the beginning of combat. I will use True Strike every other round. At 4th level, that's 7 TS I can cast. It is a Verbal component only. I will hit every other round with my weapon based on my experience. Most fights don't seem to last beyond 15 rounds. If I am attacked while holding my reach weapon, I can use the TS bonus for my AoO roll and then on my turn just move and cast again.

According to the PHB, the armor check penalty applies to attack rolls and all Str and Dex ability and skill checks. I'll have masterwork weapons to cancel out more of the penalty, I'm not worried about the skill check penalties. My concern is the penalty to Str and Dex ability checks.

What are the ability checks? Does the dex ability check affect by AC bonus from Dex? It is the ability checks that I'm not familiar with and I'm trying to find out what these are...I also believe the two-handed spear can be thrown with one hand, right?

I'm looking at +2 for Str, +2 BAB, +1 MW, +20 TS, -5 ACP for MW Banded Armor, +20 to hit every other round. If I have to use my reach weapon, I take another -4 for non-proficiency, bonus is +16. When there is no TS to use, my reach weapon attack is at -4.

I have a Quiver of Ehlonna and I have all MW two-handed spears which only need one hand to throw. There are MW javelins also in the quiver. I carry a Ranseur in one hand and a Spear in the other (the spear will be thrown). Drawing a weapon can be done on a move action. After a round of attacking, the next round is a move and a TS casting. This sets me up with the bonus to use either with a AoO roll or when I draw a spear to throw in the coming round.

I'm still kicking around what my second feat should be. I thought of Point Blank to get the extra attack and damage bonus.
Father Dale
02-18-06, 01:49 PM If you aren't proficient with the armor, you incur a penalty equal to the Armor Check Penalty on all attacks and all Str and Dex based skills and checks.

This would include anything like tumbling, jumping, climbing, move silently, hide, etc.. It would also include most opposed checks such as grapples, trips, etc.

That aside, I'm not sure I understand the great desire to wear armor. You want to use still spell to get past the spell failure, so you are essentially casting spells as a sorcerer two levels lower than yourself. Your attacks will be awful, what with the armor check penalties and the poor BAB bonus. Sure, you could true strike every other round, so you have one attack every two rounds that will succeed probably 95% of the time. BTW, Wraithstrike at 2nd lvl would probably be a much better alternative most of the time.

I imagine you plan on using lighter armors, as the AC penalty would get debilitating with the heavier stuff. But if thats the case, why not just cast mage armor and be done with it? Mage Armor is better than any nonmagic light armor, as its AC would apply against incorporeal touch attacks as well. Or cast alter self and turn into something with natural armor.

If you are realy set on wearing the armor than you would be much better off going full bore as a fighter/sorcerer/spellsword (or paladin instead of fighter).

Or try a bard, in which case you could wear light armor and still get some decent spells.

Not trying to tell you how to play your character, just trying to point out that you are going to have some major difficulties being an armor wearing sorcerer.
Watchman
02-18-06, 02:31 PM Heck, Just get a Wand of Mage Armor. Throw Shield in too, although I'n not entirely sure how useful it is under 3.5. Can't really hurt either though. About as much armour as a Sorcerer can be assumed to need, for the encumberance and hassle of carrying two sticks. I don't think low-level Wands are terribly expensive either.

Why try to climb up a tree butt first ? I'll grant you it's certainly challenging and not something many try, though... :P
Nom
02-19-06, 04:53 AM Heck, get a wand of true strike. No CL or DC dependencies, so CL 1 is fine. And wand use doesn't provoke AoOs or suffer ASF, so it's equivalent to making the components V,F. Solves your ASF problem without crippling your spell levels.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kimokeo 02-18-06, 12:55 PM	I am creating a 4th level Sorceror for a game. No, I don't want the fighter nor add a level of it. Straight Sorceror. 30hpts (CON18 w/ familiar +3) My question is about armor check penalties. My spells that I will be using is Expeditious Retreat as a Still Spell at the beginning of combat. I will use True Strike every other round. At 4th level, that's 7 TS I can cast. It is a Verbal component only. I will hit every other round with my weapon based on my experience. Most fights don't seem to last beyond 15 rounds. If I am attacked while holding my reach weapon, I can use the TS bonus for my AoO roll and then on my turn just move and cast again. According to the PHB, the armor check penalty applies to attack rolls and all Str and Dex ability and skill checks. I'll have masterwork weapons to cancel out more of the penalty, I'm not worried about the skill check penalties. My concern is the penalty to Str and Dex ability checks. What are the ability checks? Does the dex ability check affect by AC bonus from Dex? It is the ability checks that I'm not familiar with and I'm trying to find out what these are...I also believe the two-handed spear can be thrown with one hand, right? I'm looking at +2 for Str, +2 BAB, +1 MW, +20 TS, -5 ACP for MW Banded Armor, +20 to hit every other round. If I have to use my reach weapon, I take another -4 for non-proficiency, bonus is +16. When there is no TS to use, my reach weapon attack is at -4. I have a Quiver of Ehlonna and I have all MW two-handed spears which only need one hand to throw. There are MW javelins also in the quiver. I carry a Ranseur in one hand and a Spear in the other (the spear will be thrown). Drawing a weapon can be done on a move action. After a round of attacking, the next round is a move and a TS casting. This sets me up with the bonus to use either with a AoO roll or when I draw a spear to throw in the coming round. I'm still kicking around what my second feat should be. I thought of Point Blank to get the extra attack and damage bonus.
Father Dale 02-18-06, 01:49 PM	If you aren't proficient with the armor, you incur a penalty equal to the Armor Check Penalty on all attacks and all Str and Dex based skills and checks. This would include anything like tumbling, jumping, climbing, move silently, hide, etc.. It would also include most opposed checks such as grapples, trips, etc. That aside, I'm not sure I understand the great desire to wear armor. You want to use still spell to get past the spell failure, so you are essentially casting spells as a sorcerer two levels lower than yourself. Your attacks will be awful, what with the armor check penalties and the poor BAB bonus. Sure, you could true strike every other round, so you have one attack every two rounds that will succeed probably 95% of the time. BTW, Wraithstrike at 2nd lvl would probably be a much better alternative most of the time. I imagine you plan on using lighter armors, as the AC penalty would get debilitating with the heavier stuff. But if thats the case, why not just cast mage armor and be done with it? Mage Armor is better than any nonmagic light armor, as its AC would apply against incorporeal touch attacks as well. Or cast alter self and turn into something with natural armor. If you are realy set on wearing the armor than you would be much better off going full bore as a fighter/sorcerer/spellsword (or paladin instead of fighter). Or try a bard, in which case you could wear light armor and still get some decent spells. Not trying to tell you how to play your character, just trying to point out that you are going to have some major difficulties being an armor wearing sorcerer.
Watchman 02-18-06, 02:31 PM	Heck, Just get a Wand of Mage Armor. Throw Shield in too, although I'n not entirely sure how useful it is under 3.5. Can't really hurt either though. About as much armour as a Sorcerer can be assumed to need, for the encumberance and hassle of carrying two sticks. I don't think low-level Wands are terribly expensive either. Why try to climb up a tree butt first ? I'll grant you it's certainly challenging and not something many try, though... :P
Nom 02-19-06, 04:53 AM	Heck, get a wand of true strike. No CL or DC dependencies, so CL 1 is fine. And wand use doesn't provoke AoOs or suffer ASF, so it's equivalent to making the components V,F. Solves your ASF problem without crippling your spell levels.