Armor Damage Reduction [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor Damage Reduction [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jimmyjames
12-21-04, 11:55 PM This may be a misplaced post ... but has anyone experimented with the Unearthed Arcana variant of armor providing damage reduction??? or any armor/damage reduction house rules??

What were the pros and cons of this variant?? How did you handle magic effects/damage vs. armor damage reduction???

Any thoughts or insights appreciated.
wtfpwned
12-22-04, 01:06 AM Played it, handled damage from spells just as you would with normal damage reduction. Some spells incorporate DR, some don't.

I like this variant, I find it adds a bit more realism. But it also tended to add more work in bigger battles and stuff. Also it makes it possible to build really really big DR characters that cant be killed, wheee.
FitzNighteyes
12-22-04, 06:10 PM I tested it in conjunction with the Defense Bonus (and Defense Bonus overriding armor if better). Not too bad, definitely weakens melee when used that way.

My preferred variant is to just give all medium armor DR 1/-, and all heavy armor DR 2/-, and leave the AC bonus alone.
Ipsissimus
12-22-04, 06:23 PM It depends on the campaign, barbarians all around are raging due to the fact medium armor all of a sudden offers DR.

I didn't think changing the AC rating was balanced, but adding DR with a damage type seemed more reasonable. i.e. DR 1/slashing etc.
JimC
12-22-04, 06:57 PM It depends on the campaign, barbarians all around are raging due to the fact medium armor all of a sudden offers DR.

I didn't think changing the AC rating was balanced, but adding DR with a damage type seemed more reasonable. i.e. DR 1/slashing etc.

I tried that, unfortunately the side effect was that it basicaly elimiated swords and axes from the game.

Mostly because I tried to give armor somewhat realistic resistances. Unfortunately that meant most resisted slashing weapons best. Piercing was best against basically every armor except plate, 1/2 plate and breast plate since the rest are mailie based or didn't offer DR.
WhiteHarness
12-25-04, 10:06 PM I *really* like the "Damage Conversion" alternate rule. Good stuff. Almost makes D&D playable again...
The Legendary Two Sandals
01-20-05, 02:02 PM I belive it is a good idea but it would be best used in a diffrent game or a campaign setting where it could be used in full. There are some calculations in the game that were based around ac being the way it is. With this change some of them become out moded. I really wish it would have had a bigger section in the Unearthed Arcana so they could cover all the changes that needed to be made.
mercurial67
01-20-05, 02:51 PM I tried it with the natural armor variant and discovered a few problems. It lowered the AC enough that the characters started making power attacks. This effectively canceled out the DR except for when they used two-handed weapons. This effectively allowed the characters to do MORE damage.

Personally, I like the idea of armor providing DR instead of AC. The problem then becomes you have to get rid of the bonus to hit because of strength. Since armor doesn't help you keep from getting hit, you shouldn't get a bonus to hit for having the strenght to hit through the armor.
Soulmage
01-20-05, 03:15 PM I'd have to add my vote for the "Armor as Damage Conversion" rule. This rule is absolutely awesome. We've been using it in my campaign ever since the UA came out and everybody loves it.

It adds realisim, increases the value of heavy armors, is simple to use, and doesn't change the balance of the game to any significant degree.

Check it out.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable
01-20-05, 03:26 PM I never read UA (but I plan to buy it next month), so I don't know exactly how the armor as DR works.

Just an idea, if armor as DR makes PC powerattack too much (giving them more damage and cancelling DR), make the DR random. Each armor would give a diferent DR such as d6, d6/2, D8-1, etc.. That way, PCs won't know exactly how much they can power attack to negate the DR. It would slow combat a bit, tough. And you definetly have to remove strenght from attack, replace it with dex.
Knucklehead
01-20-05, 03:26 PM The Damage Conversion is the better alternative to the DR variant. It gives worth to heavy armor.
Vahenir
01-20-05, 05:36 PM I have to concur with what a few others have already said - the armour with Damage Conversion rules really outshine the armour as DR rules when it comes down to it.
Vintar
01-20-05, 09:08 PM Personally - I like the idea, and would probably prefer it slightly to how it is. However, the entire system of D&D would have to be redone to make sure it was balanced. Therefore, I don't think I will ever use it. (I get it out of my system when I play Star Wars.)
SterlingHeart PaganPummel
01-21-05, 12:44 AM I used both DR and DB, however I altered the column so ALL fightertypes used the 'A' column (I know the various columns paralled to the armor types allowed for each class, but a typical cleric being harder to hit while armorless than joe-ranger bothered me to no end). We only used Defense Bonus when you went without armor, not both at the same time.We also took the very large step of adding a +x1 crit mod to anyone who suffered a crit while wearing no armor...so a longsword did x3 crit if you got pegged while running around naked, with the exception that the Monk PC is affected normaly. Armored Arcana feat is looking pretty good to the mages....all our pc's have just made second level after going at it with a outpost of hobgoblins, and armor really has made the diff in some of the climactic fights....the players grinned when they fought the hobs with DR 1 lether armor, and cursed when they ran into the bodyguards with DR 2 chainmail. A few Daze spells allowed the PC's to blast through the Hobgoblin Chief's DR 3 Half Plate without too much difficulty. Our barbarian thought it would be great fun to go armorless for the high DB...until an ogre critted him and parked him in the cheap seats...I'll let you know how it works out at mid and high levels

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jimmyjames 12-21-04, 11:55 PM	This may be a misplaced post ... but has anyone experimented with the Unearthed Arcana variant of armor providing damage reduction??? or any armor/damage reduction house rules?? What were the pros and cons of this variant?? How did you handle magic effects/damage vs. armor damage reduction??? Any thoughts or insights appreciated.
wtfpwned 12-22-04, 01:06 AM	Played it, handled damage from spells just as you would with normal damage reduction. Some spells incorporate DR, some don't. I like this variant, I find it adds a bit more realism. But it also tended to add more work in bigger battles and stuff. Also it makes it possible to build really really big DR characters that cant be killed, wheee.
FitzNighteyes 12-22-04, 06:10 PM	I tested it in conjunction with the Defense Bonus (and Defense Bonus overriding armor if better). Not too bad, definitely weakens melee when used that way. My preferred variant is to just give all medium armor DR 1/-, and all heavy armor DR 2/-, and leave the AC bonus alone.
Ipsissimus 12-22-04, 06:23 PM	It depends on the campaign, barbarians all around are raging due to the fact medium armor all of a sudden offers DR. I didn't think changing the AC rating was balanced, but adding DR with a damage type seemed more reasonable. i.e. DR 1/slashing etc.
JimC 12-22-04, 06:57 PM	It depends on the campaign, barbarians all around are raging due to the fact medium armor all of a sudden offers DR. I didn't think changing the AC rating was balanced, but adding DR with a damage type seemed more reasonable. i.e. DR 1/slashing etc. I tried that, unfortunately the side effect was that it basicaly elimiated swords and axes from the game. Mostly because I tried to give armor somewhat realistic resistances. Unfortunately that meant most resisted slashing weapons best. Piercing was best against basically every armor except plate, 1/2 plate and breast plate since the rest are mailie based or didn't offer DR.
WhiteHarness 12-25-04, 10:06 PM	I really like the "Damage Conversion" alternate rule. Good stuff. Almost makes D&D playable again...
The Legendary Two Sandals 01-20-05, 02:02 PM	I belive it is a good idea but it would be best used in a diffrent game or a campaign setting where it could be used in full. There are some calculations in the game that were based around ac being the way it is. With this change some of them become out moded. I really wish it would have had a bigger section in the Unearthed Arcana so they could cover all the changes that needed to be made.
mercurial67 01-20-05, 02:51 PM	I tried it with the natural armor variant and discovered a few problems. It lowered the AC enough that the characters started making power attacks. This effectively canceled out the DR except for when they used two-handed weapons. This effectively allowed the characters to do MORE damage. Personally, I like the idea of armor providing DR instead of AC. The problem then becomes you have to get rid of the bonus to hit because of strength. Since armor doesn't help you keep from getting hit, you shouldn't get a bonus to hit for having the strenght to hit through the armor.
Soulmage 01-20-05, 03:15 PM	I'd have to add my vote for the "Armor as Damage Conversion" rule. This rule is absolutely awesome. We've been using it in my campaign ever since the UA came out and everybody loves it. It adds realisim, increases the value of heavy armors, is simple to use, and doesn't change the balance of the game to any significant degree. Check it out.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 01-20-05, 03:26 PM	I never read UA (but I plan to buy it next month), so I don't know exactly how the armor as DR works. Just an idea, if armor as DR makes PC powerattack too much (giving them more damage and cancelling DR), make the DR random. Each armor would give a diferent DR such as d6, d6/2, D8-1, etc.. That way, PCs won't know exactly how much they can power attack to negate the DR. It would slow combat a bit, tough. And you definetly have to remove strenght from attack, replace it with dex.
Knucklehead 01-20-05, 03:26 PM	The Damage Conversion is the better alternative to the DR variant. It gives worth to heavy armor.
Vahenir 01-20-05, 05:36 PM	I have to concur with what a few others have already said - the armour with Damage Conversion rules really outshine the armour as DR rules when it comes down to it.
Vintar 01-20-05, 09:08 PM	Personally - I like the idea, and would probably prefer it slightly to how it is. However, the entire system of D&D would have to be redone to make sure it was balanced. Therefore, I don't think I will ever use it. (I get it out of my system when I play Star Wars.)
SterlingHeart PaganPummel 01-21-05, 12:44 AM	I used both DR and DB, however I altered the column so ALL fightertypes used the 'A' column (I know the various columns paralled to the armor types allowed for each class, but a typical cleric being harder to hit while armorless than joe-ranger bothered me to no end). We only used Defense Bonus when you went without armor, not both at the same time.We also took the very large step of adding a +x1 crit mod to anyone who suffered a crit while wearing no armor...so a longsword did x3 crit if you got pegged while running around naked, with the exception that the Monk PC is affected normaly. Armored Arcana feat is looking pretty good to the mages....all our pc's have just made second level after going at it with a outpost of hobgoblins, and armor really has made the diff in some of the climactic fights....the players grinned when they fought the hobs with DR 1 lether armor, and cursed when they ran into the bodyguards with DR 2 chainmail. A few Daze spells allowed the PC's to blast through the Hobgoblin Chief's DR 3 Half Plate without too much difficulty. Our barbarian thought it would be great fun to go armorless for the high DB...until an ogre critted him and parked him in the cheap seats...I'll let you know how it works out at mid and high levels