Armor for a Dwarf [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor for a Dwarf [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
=rok=
11-09-05, 01:30 PM I have a dwarf paladin that lacks so much in the AC department

I'm looking at getting him Mountain Plate or Battle Plate from Races of Stone

now I need to know what enchantments and such would be useful. He is the first into combat
Wharin
11-09-05, 01:39 PM Well first, i would try to get it made out of Adamantine as soon as possible. That DR will be surely helpful. And while you're at it, get it dwarven crafted for good measure.

As for enhancements? I dunno... seeing how your AC is pretty pathetic (by your admittance) i would just pump in as much normal +x to AC enchancements as possible. Maybe some Element Resistance would help vs. spells.
=rok=
11-09-05, 01:43 PM dwarven crafted?

one thing I was thinking was Fortification
Wharin
11-09-05, 02:14 PM Dwarvencrafted is sorta like the dwarven masterwork or masterwork. Honestly its not going to help you too much in combat, but its going to be hard for whatever monsters to break it.

Fortification works, I wouldn't turn it down, but I would still shoot for a super high AC.
Killion
11-09-05, 02:29 PM Go with battle plate. Mountain plate removes a dwarf's incentive for wearing heavy armor. It's just too darned slow.

If you don't already use a shield, grab an Extreme Shield. Without any enchantment at all, a dwarf with 12 dexterity can have 23 AC with this equiptment.
=rok=
11-09-05, 02:39 PM Extreme Shield? - what is that from
I currently have a 23 AC with Full Plate and an enchanted shield and Ring of protection +2
Puca
11-09-05, 02:52 PM I noticed that you didnt have any natural armor listed. I know it is pretty obvious, but I thought Id mention it just in case.

Amulets of natural armor are comprable price-wise to deflection bonuses.
Like the +2 ring of deflection you have cost 8,000 gp, but you could have gotten a +1 ring of deflection and a +1 amulet of natural armor for the same total AC bonus but at a cost of only 4,000 gp.
Kendrick
11-09-05, 03:30 PM I noticed that you didnt have any natural armor listed. I know it is pretty obvious, but I thought Id mention it just in case.

Amulets of natural armor are comprable price-wise to deflection bonuses.
Like the +2 ring of deflection you have cost 8,000 gp, but you could have gotten a +1 ring of deflection and a +1 amulet of natural armor for the same total AC bonus but at a cost of only 4,000 gp.

And keep in mind that you could also get the Crimson Dragonhide Bracers, which function a lot like an amulet of natural armor, if the slot is a problem.

As far as special abilities, I would go for a +5 enhancement to get the maximum AC, and if you can afford more get the best form of fortification you can. I've never found the other +X abilities to be worth the cost. You might also think about getting armor of shadow/silent moves - it's a straight cost instead of +X enhancement equivilant and even the lowest form can really help offset the ACP of heavy armor when it comes to sneaking. You may not want to sneak very often, but when you do it's definitely worth the price.
Dćгơs
12-03-05, 02:15 PM one of the best bilities is the soulfire ablility in BoED. it lets you ignore all death effects, death spells, energy drain, and negative energy effects. it is expensive (+4 bonus) but very powerful.

here is the armor that i made for my last dwarf, it isnt magical, just very hard to make. and before someone posts to say i cant combine those propeties, i already emailed the new WOC help desk, and got the go-ahead.

Mithral Dwarvencraft Battle Plate with Susalian Chainweave, Anti-Impact, and Ysgardian Heartwire
(craft DC 31)
57,800gp
+9 AC
+3 Max. Dex.
-3 check
35% spell fail
68lbs.
+2 AC v. critical hits
˝ damage from falling/constriction
DR: 3/piercing

Hardness: 17
Hp: 55
considered medium armor for abilities, but really exotic, heavy armor
masterofmayhem
12-03-05, 02:28 PM Well first, i would try to get it made out of Adamantine as soon as possible. That DR will be surely helpful.
If he's going for as much AC as possible, then mithral would be a better choice then adamantine. Gloves of dex would get him some more AC.

here is the armor that i made for my last dwarf, it isnt magical, just very hard to make. and before someone posts to say i cant combine those propeties, i already emailed the new WOC help desk, and got the go-ahead.

Mithral Dwarvencraft Battle Plate with Susalian Chainweave, Anti-Impact, and Ysgardian Heartwire
(craft DC 31)
57,800gp
+9 AC
+3 Max. Dex.
-3 check
35% spell fail
68lbs.
+2 AC v. critical hits
˝ damage from falling/constriction
DR: 3/piercing

Hardness: 17
Hp: 55
considered medium armor for abilities, but really exotic, heavy armor
I will then state that the new WotC help desk does not know what they are talking about. You combined multiple special materials in there. Per the RAW, you cannot do that. Logically, you might have a susalian chain weave hauberk underneath your mithral armor, but the Rules as Written do not work like that. You would need DM approved to do that.

It would be like having an adamantinecoldiron sword. You can't. Unless your DM allows it.
Dćгơs
12-03-05, 02:38 PM You combined multiple special materials in there. Per the RAW, you cannot do that. Logically, you might have a susalian chain weave hauberk underneath your mithral armor, but the Rules as Written do not work like that. You would need DM approved to do that.

It would be like having an adamantinecoldiron sword. You can't. Unless your DM allows it.

actually, i didnt combine materials, just different methods of reiforcing differnt parts of the armor (with the exception of the ysgardian heartwire- it is specifically allowed to be combined with other materials). and im not going to comment on the help desk, they are getting much better lately. if you can find where the SRD or any other wotc book says i cant do this, i will gladly rescend my post, but idont think there is any problem.
masterofmayhem
12-03-05, 03:12 PM Here ya go. :)

Special Materials
In addition to magic items created with spells, some substances have innate special properties.

If you make a suit of armor or weapon out of more than one special material, you get the benefit of only the most prevalent material. However, you can build a double weapon with each head made of a different special material.
Dćгơs
12-03-05, 10:28 PM like i said, though, i didnt use more than one material, except for the ysgardan heartwire, which is specificaly exempt from tis rule, as per its own description.
masterofmayhem
12-03-05, 11:30 PM Susalian Chainweave is not a special material from which you make armor?
PurdueDave
12-04-05, 01:17 AM In general, fortification is generally considered better than the +AC for armor enchantments beyond +1. For your AC problem, use a shield if your not already. On that line, you might also consider the feat "divine shield" (CW) since you're probably not turning undead much anyway. I don't much care for those "use a turn attempt" feats myself, but it would be a quick way for a paladin to boost his AC by a fair amount.
zelf_gale
12-04-05, 02:10 PM Armor Bonus
Armor, Full Plate (+ enhancement bonus)
Shield, Extreme Shield (+ enhancement bonus)
Deflection, ring of protection
Natural Armor, amulet of natural armor
Dex, Mithral Armor
Insight, ioun stone
Dodge, the Dodge and Mobility feats, gnome and halfling traits
Size, reduce person (for those times you really dont want to be hit)
Fighting Defensively + Combat expertise or Full Defense

Miss Chance
Displacement
Blur
Invisibility
Darkness

DR
Adamantine Armor
Barbarian
Sully chainweave
Dćгơs
12-04-05, 08:16 PM Susalian Chainweave is not a special material from which you make armor?

nope, its a special crafting procedure for chain/breastplate/heavy armor from the complete warrior. mastered by the elves and such. (p. 136)
Wharin
12-04-05, 08:38 PM Mithral Dwarvencraft Battle Plate with Susalian Chainweave, Anti-Impact, and Ysgardian Heartwire
(craft DC 31)
57,800gp

So this only takes half an eternity to smith. Well thats a relief. Heh
kalstrand
12-04-05, 09:54 PM As written it is a speacial material because it falls under the special materials section of CW.
Wharin
12-04-05, 10:05 PM Meh. I'd be willing to allow it. The second coming will happen before they finish making it. I'd argue that there really isnt any other place to put it. Its more of a technique then a material.

I guess thats why they gave it the fluff of being elven. No other race would live long enough to make it.
DrMorganes
12-04-05, 10:11 PM Better to give sound advice based on universally accpetable rules rather than offer a questionable combination of materials that any DM in his right mind would disallow.

zelf_gale's guidelines are right on the money (with, perhaps, the exception of the Extreme Shield; not every DM allows material from non-Core sourcebooks) and are easily adapted to fit your character's level. DEX is rather minimized by the heavy armor, so don't worry if your PC's dexterity is only 12 or so.
masterofmayhem
12-04-05, 11:27 PM nope, its a special crafting procedure for chain/breastplate/heavy armor from the complete warrior. mastered by the elves and such. (p. 136)
I'm pretty sure it's still a special material. Granted, I don't have the text in front of me, but I'm pretty it didn't specifically say that it could be used in tandem with other special materials, which is the only way that it could be used with other special materials.

Just because you think that, logically, it sounds like it could, does not mean that it can. The text has to specifically say so.

So this only takes half an eternity to smith. Well thats a relief. Heh
It would only take about a year for someone with a +30ish craft modifier. Not that you actually can make it, though.
Dćгơs
12-05-05, 12:58 AM thats why i emailed the help desk at WOC. they said it was really a technique, not a material, and could be combined with any other normal material, like (in this instance) mithral.

as for "any DM in thier right mind would disallow", why? you just had to find a guy with at least a +21 armorsmith skill, who knew how to make the thing, and who was willing to spend eleven and a half years (601 weeks, to be excact) to craft it. not to mention that you just blew 60k on an armor that, at its core is only +1 ac more than fullplate, and it even takes a feat to wear properly, because its exotic!

there, i feel better sorry for the rant, but that wads my pants to here people call any idea they dont like stupid in an offhand sort of way just because they didnt have the originality to come up with it first.

now i really will stop ranting.

seriously, though, with all the in-game prep and time it takes, this armor shouldnt be a problem.
Leress
12-05-05, 01:25 AM I think the idea of your armor is pretty cool
kjenks
12-05-05, 10:34 AM Adamantine mountain plate (Races of Stone). Requires Exotic Armor Proficiency feat.

Extreme shield (Races of Stone). Requires Exotic Shield Proficiency feat. Buy a +1 animated version so you can wield your weapons better.

Heavy Armor Optimization feat. (Races of Stone)
Greater Heavy Armor Optimization feat. (Races of Stone)
Dodge feat.

Don't add enhancement bonuses to your armor or shield; ask your cleric buddy to cast Magic Vestments on them instead. Buy him a Metamagic Rod of Extend (Lesser) and a Pearl of Power (3); this is cheaper than buying large enhancement bonuses.

Buy +1 silver defending armor spikes for your armor and +1 cold iron defending shield spikes for your shield, then ask your cleric buddy to cast Greater Magic Weapon on those spikes. This can give you a big boost in AC with relatively little cost.

If you don't have a cleric buddy who is willing to cast these spells on you, take the Leadership feat and get a cohort who is more cooperative. Magic Circle against Evil or even Quicken Spell + Shield of Faith can give you an instant deflection bonus to AC for much cheaper than a Ring of Protection. (If he has the right domains, he can use Imbue with Spell Ability to grant you a True Strike spell -- works very well with Power Attack.)

zelf_gale gave a pretty good list of other ways not to get hurt in melee. Explore those options.
Wharin
12-05-05, 12:45 PM It would only take about a year for someone with a +30ish craft modifier. Not that you actually can make it, though.

Are you sure? Somehow i think your math is off. Let me show you why:

OK, so lets assume his craft is 31. Taking ten his "roll" would be 41. As the DC is 31, we can up the DC by 10 to 41 to help speed up the proccess. Which is about 160gp (1600sp) a week.

With a cost of about 58k, it would run about 360ish weeks assuming by weeks we mean a 7 day week (and not a "tenday") and that there are 52 weeks in a year, thats only 7 straight years to make one piece of armour. And thats assuming you do nothing else with your day. Even when a normal master blacksmith works to create his "masterpiece" he still takes time out of his day to work on other sundry projects to pay the bills. With this piece of armour its pretty much eat, sleep, and smith for *7* years. And the only people that could possibly even get their crafting that high is by being a successful adventurer. Would an adventurer take 7 years out of his life for a single piece of armour? Of course a legion of apprentices to help could speed up the process a bit. I dunno...

That said, it was meant more of a joke then anything really serious. There are a number of ways that a smith can increase his crafting modifier into the stratosphere before reaching what is considered "high" level. (the anvils in the RoS come to mind)
Dćгơs
12-05-05, 01:12 PM thank you for illustrating my point. btw, at minimum craft skill (+21), it would take the afore-mentioned 601 weeks to craft. i checked, and if you use the epic rules for rapid crafting (voluntarily increasing the DC by increments of 10), you can get it done in about a year by someone with a +100 craft skill (increase DC to 101x110 for taking ten= 11110sp/week or 1111gp/week. 57800/1111=52 -> the number of weeks to craft the item.) or in a year by someone with a +51 and the willingnes to do absolutely nothing else but forge armor for a year (i mean 24/7- using the forge of sustenence). so this armor is most easily incorporated into the game as an heirloom that the character comes into by way of "charitable donations" equal to the value of the armor, or as pre-existing equipment for a suitably high-level character. also, it would be right at home in an ancient, ruined temple to moradin or some such god.
Wyrd Bearer
12-05-05, 01:26 PM A dwarven sorcerer/wizard could make that armour in a few seconds with the spell fabricate, though I'd require seperate checks (determined by the price of each technique used in the process) for each of those additional properties, as well as the armour itself as normal. So I reccommend that magecraft spell from Eberron that adds +5 to your craft checks for the day.

As for if they're allowed to be used all at once... I could see it. One only applies to situation damage (situations that I've seen only occur rarely), one only applies against critical hits and the other is just a nusance to someone who is dealing enough physical damage to not care (and again, it only applies to physical damage, whereas any magical damage will just laugh at it).
masterofmayhem
12-05-05, 03:19 PM thats why i emailed the help desk at WOC. they said it was really a technique, not a material, and could be combined with any other normal material, like (in this instance) mithral.

If it is a special material, it does not matter what the help desk says unless the text for that special material explicitly says that it can be combined with other things.

Just so you know, I am not arguing the logic of it, nor the game balance, simply that the Rules As Written do not allow it. In fact, as a DM, I would most likely allow it.

That still doesn't change that fact that doing so would be a houserule, however.

And, honestly, I don't care what the customer service help desk said; they are wrong so often I am likely to change my point of view if they agree with me. ;)

Are you sure? Somehow i think your math is off. Let me show you why:

Oops, sorry; you're right. I saw a number that was about 360, which is quite close to 365, so I was thinking days, rather than weeks . . .

Fabricate could still make it in several rounds, however.
Wharin
12-05-05, 03:47 PM I am not sure that Fabricate will help you make masterwork/dwarvencraft items. Nor will shape metal. Nothing specifically regaurding Masterwork is listed in the spell.

That said, I could be wrong. And if you are using an exotic material, such as mithral or addy, its moot anyway as in their descriptions they mention that equipment made from the materials are masterwork.

Again, its impossible to defend using any hard rules, but the description of Susalian Weave says its a method of working the material; not a material in and of itself. The fact that they put in under the subchapter of Special Materials does not help its case for being added to other special materials; nor does the fact that it doesnt specifically mention that it can be added to materials. That said, any DM who takes time in reading its description would at least heavily consider allowing the combination, RAW be damned.
Dćгơs
12-05-05, 11:18 PM im not that familiar with the rules for fabricate, but i am uncomfortable with the idea of a wizard casting a spell to up his craft to +21 so he can take ten and make the armor in 30 seconds.

and, Wharin, thank you for being a voice of reason on this post. you are right about the strict RAW interpretation, but i think that aslo, as you said, the spirit of the thing should matter, if not completely trump other concerns.

to the OP- sorry i turned this post into a thread on my own armor, i didnt mean to poach.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
=rok= 11-09-05, 01:30 PM	I have a dwarf paladin that lacks so much in the AC department I'm looking at getting him Mountain Plate or Battle Plate from Races of Stone now I need to know what enchantments and such would be useful. He is the first into combat
Wharin 11-09-05, 01:39 PM	Well first, i would try to get it made out of Adamantine as soon as possible. That DR will be surely helpful. And while you're at it, get it dwarven crafted for good measure. As for enhancements? I dunno... seeing how your AC is pretty pathetic (by your admittance) i would just pump in as much normal +x to AC enchancements as possible. Maybe some Element Resistance would help vs. spells.
=rok= 11-09-05, 01:43 PM	dwarven crafted? one thing I was thinking was Fortification
Wharin 11-09-05, 02:14 PM	Dwarvencrafted is sorta like the dwarven masterwork or masterwork. Honestly its not going to help you too much in combat, but its going to be hard for whatever monsters to break it. Fortification works, I wouldn't turn it down, but I would still shoot for a super high AC.
Killion 11-09-05, 02:29 PM	Go with battle plate. Mountain plate removes a dwarf's incentive for wearing heavy armor. It's just too darned slow. If you don't already use a shield, grab an Extreme Shield. Without any enchantment at all, a dwarf with 12 dexterity can have 23 AC with this equiptment.
=rok= 11-09-05, 02:39 PM	Extreme Shield? - what is that from I currently have a 23 AC with Full Plate and an enchanted shield and Ring of protection +2
Puca 11-09-05, 02:52 PM	I noticed that you didnt have any natural armor listed. I know it is pretty obvious, but I thought Id mention it just in case. Amulets of natural armor are comprable price-wise to deflection bonuses. Like the +2 ring of deflection you have cost 8,000 gp, but you could have gotten a +1 ring of deflection and a +1 amulet of natural armor for the same total AC bonus but at a cost of only 4,000 gp.
Kendrick 11-09-05, 03:30 PM	I noticed that you didnt have any natural armor listed. I know it is pretty obvious, but I thought Id mention it just in case. Amulets of natural armor are comprable price-wise to deflection bonuses. Like the +2 ring of deflection you have cost 8,000 gp, but you could have gotten a +1 ring of deflection and a +1 amulet of natural armor for the same total AC bonus but at a cost of only 4,000 gp. And keep in mind that you could also get the Crimson Dragonhide Bracers, which function a lot like an amulet of natural armor, if the slot is a problem. As far as special abilities, I would go for a +5 enhancement to get the maximum AC, and if you can afford more get the best form of fortification you can. I've never found the other +X abilities to be worth the cost. You might also think about getting armor of shadow/silent moves - it's a straight cost instead of +X enhancement equivilant and even the lowest form can really help offset the ACP of heavy armor when it comes to sneaking. You may not want to sneak very often, but when you do it's definitely worth the price.
Dćгơs 12-03-05, 02:15 PM	one of the best bilities is the soulfire ablility in BoED. it lets you ignore all death effects, death spells, energy drain, and negative energy effects. it is expensive (+4 bonus) but very powerful. here is the armor that i made for my last dwarf, it isnt magical, just very hard to make. and before someone posts to say i cant combine those propeties, i already emailed the new WOC help desk, and got the go-ahead. Mithral Dwarvencraft Battle Plate with Susalian Chainweave, Anti-Impact, and Ysgardian Heartwire (craft DC 31) 57,800gp +9 AC +3 Max. Dex. -3 check 35% spell fail 68lbs. +2 AC v. critical hits ˝ damage from falling/constriction DR: 3/piercing Hardness: 17 Hp: 55 considered medium armor for abilities, but really exotic, heavy armor
masterofmayhem 12-03-05, 02:28 PM	Well first, i would try to get it made out of Adamantine as soon as possible. That DR will be surely helpful. If he's going for as much AC as possible, then mithral would be a better choice then adamantine. Gloves of dex would get him some more AC. here is the armor that i made for my last dwarf, it isnt magical, just very hard to make. and before someone posts to say i cant combine those propeties, i already emailed the new WOC help desk, and got the go-ahead. Mithral Dwarvencraft Battle Plate with Susalian Chainweave, Anti-Impact, and Ysgardian Heartwire (craft DC 31) 57,800gp +9 AC +3 Max. Dex. -3 check 35% spell fail 68lbs. +2 AC v. critical hits ˝ damage from falling/constriction DR: 3/piercing Hardness: 17 Hp: 55 considered medium armor for abilities, but really exotic, heavy armor I will then state that the new WotC help desk does not know what they are talking about. You combined multiple special materials in there. Per the RAW, you cannot do that. Logically, you might have a susalian chain weave hauberk underneath your mithral armor, but the Rules as Written do not work like that. You would need DM approved to do that. It would be like having an adamantinecoldiron sword. You can't. Unless your DM allows it.
Dćгơs 12-03-05, 02:38 PM	You combined multiple special materials in there. Per the RAW, you cannot do that. Logically, you might have a susalian chain weave hauberk underneath your mithral armor, but the Rules as Written do not work like that. You would need DM approved to do that. It would be like having an adamantinecoldiron sword. You can't. Unless your DM allows it. actually, i didnt combine materials, just different methods of reiforcing differnt parts of the armor (with the exception of the ysgardian heartwire- it is specifically allowed to be combined with other materials). and im not going to comment on the help desk, they are getting much better lately. if you can find where the SRD or any other wotc book says i cant do this, i will gladly rescend my post, but idont think there is any problem.
masterofmayhem 12-03-05, 03:12 PM	Here ya go. :) Special Materials In addition to magic items created with spells, some substances have innate special properties. If you make a suit of armor or weapon out of more than one special material, you get the benefit of only the most prevalent material. However, you can build a double weapon with each head made of a different special material.
Dćгơs 12-03-05, 10:28 PM	like i said, though, i didnt use more than one material, except for the ysgardan heartwire, which is specificaly exempt from tis rule, as per its own description.
masterofmayhem 12-03-05, 11:30 PM	Susalian Chainweave is not a special material from which you make armor?
PurdueDave 12-04-05, 01:17 AM	In general, fortification is generally considered better than the +AC for armor enchantments beyond +1. For your AC problem, use a shield if your not already. On that line, you might also consider the feat "divine shield" (CW) since you're probably not turning undead much anyway. I don't much care for those "use a turn attempt" feats myself, but it would be a quick way for a paladin to boost his AC by a fair amount.
zelf_gale 12-04-05, 02:10 PM	Armor Bonus Armor, Full Plate (+ enhancement bonus) Shield, Extreme Shield (+ enhancement bonus) Deflection, ring of protection Natural Armor, amulet of natural armor Dex, Mithral Armor Insight, ioun stone Dodge, the Dodge and Mobility feats, gnome and halfling traits Size, reduce person (for those times you really dont want to be hit) Fighting Defensively + Combat expertise or Full Defense Miss Chance Displacement Blur Invisibility Darkness DR Adamantine Armor Barbarian Sully chainweave
Dćгơs 12-04-05, 08:16 PM	Susalian Chainweave is not a special material from which you make armor? nope, its a special crafting procedure for chain/breastplate/heavy armor from the complete warrior. mastered by the elves and such. (p. 136)
Wharin 12-04-05, 08:38 PM	Mithral Dwarvencraft Battle Plate with Susalian Chainweave, Anti-Impact, and Ysgardian Heartwire (craft DC 31) 57,800gp So this only takes half an eternity to smith. Well thats a relief. Heh
kalstrand 12-04-05, 09:54 PM	As written it is a speacial material because it falls under the special materials section of CW.
Wharin 12-04-05, 10:05 PM	Meh. I'd be willing to allow it. The second coming will happen before they finish making it. I'd argue that there really isnt any other place to put it. Its more of a technique then a material. I guess thats why they gave it the fluff of being elven. No other race would live long enough to make it.
DrMorganes 12-04-05, 10:11 PM	Better to give sound advice based on universally accpetable rules rather than offer a questionable combination of materials that any DM in his right mind would disallow. zelf_gale's guidelines are right on the money (with, perhaps, the exception of the Extreme Shield; not every DM allows material from non-Core sourcebooks) and are easily adapted to fit your character's level. DEX is rather minimized by the heavy armor, so don't worry if your PC's dexterity is only 12 or so.
masterofmayhem 12-04-05, 11:27 PM	nope, its a special crafting procedure for chain/breastplate/heavy armor from the complete warrior. mastered by the elves and such. (p. 136) I'm pretty sure it's still a special material. Granted, I don't have the text in front of me, but I'm pretty it didn't specifically say that it could be used in tandem with other special materials, which is the only way that it could be used with other special materials. Just because you think that, logically, it sounds like it could, does not mean that it can. The text has to specifically say so. So this only takes half an eternity to smith. Well thats a relief. Heh It would only take about a year for someone with a +30ish craft modifier. Not that you actually can make it, though.
Dćгơs 12-05-05, 12:58 AM	thats why i emailed the help desk at WOC. they said it was really a technique, not a material, and could be combined with any other normal material, like (in this instance) mithral. as for "any DM in thier right mind would disallow", why? you just had to find a guy with at least a +21 armorsmith skill, who knew how to make the thing, and who was willing to spend eleven and a half years (601 weeks, to be excact) to craft it. not to mention that you just blew 60k on an armor that, at its core is only +1 ac more than fullplate, and it even takes a feat to wear properly, because its exotic! there, i feel better sorry for the rant, but that wads my pants to here people call any idea they dont like stupid in an offhand sort of way just because they didnt have the originality to come up with it first. now i really will stop ranting. seriously, though, with all the in-game prep and time it takes, this armor shouldnt be a problem.
Leress 12-05-05, 01:25 AM	I think the idea of your armor is pretty cool
kjenks 12-05-05, 10:34 AM	Adamantine mountain plate (Races of Stone). Requires Exotic Armor Proficiency feat. Extreme shield (Races of Stone). Requires Exotic Shield Proficiency feat. Buy a +1 animated version so you can wield your weapons better. Heavy Armor Optimization feat. (Races of Stone) Greater Heavy Armor Optimization feat. (Races of Stone) Dodge feat. Don't add enhancement bonuses to your armor or shield; ask your cleric buddy to cast Magic Vestments on them instead. Buy him a Metamagic Rod of Extend (Lesser) and a Pearl of Power (3); this is cheaper than buying large enhancement bonuses. Buy +1 silver defending armor spikes for your armor and +1 cold iron defending shield spikes for your shield, then ask your cleric buddy to cast Greater Magic Weapon on those spikes. This can give you a big boost in AC with relatively little cost. If you don't have a cleric buddy who is willing to cast these spells on you, take the Leadership feat and get a cohort who is more cooperative. Magic Circle against Evil or even Quicken Spell + Shield of Faith can give you an instant deflection bonus to AC for much cheaper than a Ring of Protection. (If he has the right domains, he can use Imbue with Spell Ability to grant you a True Strike spell -- works very well with Power Attack.) zelf_gale gave a pretty good list of other ways not to get hurt in melee. Explore those options.
Wharin 12-05-05, 12:45 PM	It would only take about a year for someone with a +30ish craft modifier. Not that you actually can make it, though. Are you sure? Somehow i think your math is off. Let me show you why: OK, so lets assume his craft is 31. Taking ten his "roll" would be 41. As the DC is 31, we can up the DC by 10 to 41 to help speed up the proccess. Which is about 160gp (1600sp) a week. With a cost of about 58k, it would run about 360ish weeks assuming by weeks we mean a 7 day week (and not a "tenday") and that there are 52 weeks in a year, thats only 7 straight years to make one piece of armour. And thats assuming you do nothing else with your day. Even when a normal master blacksmith works to create his "masterpiece" he still takes time out of his day to work on other sundry projects to pay the bills. With this piece of armour its pretty much eat, sleep, and smith for 7 years. And the only people that could possibly even get their crafting that high is by being a successful adventurer. Would an adventurer take 7 years out of his life for a single piece of armour? Of course a legion of apprentices to help could speed up the process a bit. I dunno... That said, it was meant more of a joke then anything really serious. There are a number of ways that a smith can increase his crafting modifier into the stratosphere before reaching what is considered "high" level. (the anvils in the RoS come to mind)
Dćгơs 12-05-05, 01:12 PM	thank you for illustrating my point. btw, at minimum craft skill (+21), it would take the afore-mentioned 601 weeks to craft. i checked, and if you use the epic rules for rapid crafting (voluntarily increasing the DC by increments of 10), you can get it done in about a year by someone with a +100 craft skill (increase DC to 101x110 for taking ten= 11110sp/week or 1111gp/week. 57800/1111=52 -> the number of weeks to craft the item.) or in a year by someone with a +51 and the willingnes to do absolutely nothing else but forge armor for a year (i mean 24/7- using the forge of sustenence). so this armor is most easily incorporated into the game as an heirloom that the character comes into by way of "charitable donations" equal to the value of the armor, or as pre-existing equipment for a suitably high-level character. also, it would be right at home in an ancient, ruined temple to moradin or some such god.
Wyrd Bearer 12-05-05, 01:26 PM	A dwarven sorcerer/wizard could make that armour in a few seconds with the spell fabricate, though I'd require seperate checks (determined by the price of each technique used in the process) for each of those additional properties, as well as the armour itself as normal. So I reccommend that magecraft spell from Eberron that adds +5 to your craft checks for the day. As for if they're allowed to be used all at once... I could see it. One only applies to situation damage (situations that I've seen only occur rarely), one only applies against critical hits and the other is just a nusance to someone who is dealing enough physical damage to not care (and again, it only applies to physical damage, whereas any magical damage will just laugh at it).
masterofmayhem 12-05-05, 03:19 PM	thats why i emailed the help desk at WOC. they said it was really a technique, not a material, and could be combined with any other normal material, like (in this instance) mithral. If it is a special material, it does not matter what the help desk says unless the text for that special material explicitly says that it can be combined with other things. Just so you know, I am not arguing the logic of it, nor the game balance, simply that the Rules As Written do not allow it. In fact, as a DM, I would most likely allow it. That still doesn't change that fact that doing so would be a houserule, however. And, honestly, I don't care what the customer service help desk said; they are wrong so often I am likely to change my point of view if they agree with me. ;) Are you sure? Somehow i think your math is off. Let me show you why: Oops, sorry; you're right. I saw a number that was about 360, which is quite close to 365, so I was thinking days, rather than weeks . . . Fabricate could still make it in several rounds, however.
Wharin 12-05-05, 03:47 PM	I am not sure that Fabricate will help you make masterwork/dwarvencraft items. Nor will shape metal. Nothing specifically regaurding Masterwork is listed in the spell. That said, I could be wrong. And if you are using an exotic material, such as mithral or addy, its moot anyway as in their descriptions they mention that equipment made from the materials are masterwork. Again, its impossible to defend using any hard rules, but the description of Susalian Weave says its a method of working the material; not a material in and of itself. The fact that they put in under the subchapter of Special Materials does not help its case for being added to other special materials; nor does the fact that it doesnt specifically mention that it can be added to materials. That said, any DM who takes time in reading its description would at least heavily consider allowing the combination, RAW be damned.
Dćгơs 12-05-05, 11:18 PM	im not that familiar with the rules for fabricate, but i am uncomfortable with the idea of a wizard casting a spell to up his craft to +21 so he can take ten and make the armor in 30 seconds. and, Wharin, thank you for being a voice of reason on this post. you are right about the strict RAW interpretation, but i think that aslo, as you said, the spirit of the thing should matter, if not completely trump other concerns. to the OP- sorry i turned this post into a thread on my own armor, i didnt mean to poach.