Post/Author/DateTime	Post
M.E. Charm 02-11-07, 03:52 PM	My wizard has a vulture familair using the raven stats, and I'd like to put barding on it. Mostly for fluff, but then I realized its not even such a bad idea. A mithral chainshirt weighs 12.5lbs, and according to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#armorForUnusualCreatures) armor for Tiny creatures weighs 1/10th, thus only 1.25lbs. A Tiny creature with STR 1 has a light load of 1.5lbs, so he can carry it. A mithral chainshirt has no armor check penalties. +4 AC for 1250gp. Are there any rules that prohibit this? And leaving the usefulness of familairs and their AC aside, what is your vision on this? Would you allow it? How do you think armor fits on a Tiny bird?
draconic_swine 02-11-07, 04:17 PM	I'm not sure how exactly to picture this - the wings are probably left bare, since you'd think having armour strapped to the wings would prevent the bird from flying, whether it's made of mithral or not - I'd certainly allow it. If your DM doesn't allow it, he's just being mean. You've done your research on the rules, and I can't think of any rule that prevents this. The only thing you're missing is that Tiny or smaller armour only provides half the armour bonus - so your family will get +2 AC, not +4. Other than that, you're good to go. This is a smart idea, to try to get some more combat life out of a familiar.
Angatyr 02-11-07, 05:20 PM	Rules-wise that seems fine. My problem is a vulture would not be in the Tiny size category. They can stand up to a 1.4 metres tall and have a wingspan of up to 3.1 metres, I would class them as small as they are taller, wider and can be heavier than a halfling. They are one of the largest families of flying birds. I discovered exactly how huge they were when seeing if i could keep one as a pet, not realising they were bigger than me at the time (I was 12).
M.E. Charm 02-11-07, 08:00 PM	I'm not sure how exactly to picture this - the wings are probably left bare, since you'd think having armour strapped to the wings would prevent the bird from flying, whether it's made of mithral or not - I'd certainly allow it. If your DM doesn't allow it, he's just being mean. You've done your research on the rules, and I can't think of any rule that prevents this. The only thing you're missing is that Tiny or smaller armour only provides half the armour bonus - so your family will get +2 AC, not +4. Other than that, you're good to go. This is a smart idea, to try to get some more combat life out of a familiar. Yeah I overlooked that.. and it seems very logical. Thanks a lot! I don't intend on sending my familair out in battle, but I rather dislike the thought someone gets the bright idea to kill it anyway. Rules-wise that seems fine. My problem is a vulture would not be in the Tiny size category. They can stand up to a 1.4 metres tall and have a wingspan of up to 3.1 metres, I would class them as small as they are taller, wider and can be heavier than a halfling. They are one of the largest families of flying birds. I discovered exactly how huge they were when seeing if i could keep one as a pet, not realising they were bigger than me at the time (I was 12). I was thinking that too, and wondered if I should make a thread in the Monsters forum to ask what stats would be good for one.. but theres the hooded vulture (http://www.honoluluzoo.org/hooded_vulture.htm), which fits the raven's size in the description given (which also says the raven's stats can be used for other non-predatory birds). I realized when I found the hooded vulture that alot of people, including me, forget theres alot of kinds of one species. :P
risner 02-11-07, 10:59 PM	1) A mithral chainshirt weighs 12.5lbs, 2) +4 AC for 1250gp familiar Raven. 3) Are there any rules that prohibit this? 1) Mithril Chain Shirt weighs 10 lbs (check DMG) not 12.5 lbs (did you get that from the error printed in Races of the Wild?) 2) PHB p123 says Tiny = 1x Cost 1/10th Weight. Mithril Chain Shirt costs 1,100 gp so 1x * 1,100 gp = 1,100 gp. Where did you get 1,250 gp? 3) You are limited to a light load (for sure) and depending on the DM interpretation light armour also. Mithril Chain Shirt is light armour and you say he has a light load, so he can fly. Also half the AC bonus provided due to tiny size.
M.E. Charm 02-12-07, 07:52 AM	1) Mithril Chain Shirt weighs 10 lbs (check DMG) not 12.5 lbs (did you get that from the error printed in Races of the Wild?) 2) PHB p123 says Tiny = 1x Cost 1/10th Weight. Mithril Chain Shirt costs 1,100 gp so 1x * 1,100 gp = 1,100 gp. Where did you get 1,250 gp? 3) You are limited to a light load (for sure) and depending on the DM interpretation light armour also. Mithril Chain Shirt is light armour and you say he has a light load, so he can fly. Also half the AC bonus provided due to tiny size. Ah, the mithril description says mithral items weigh half the normal weight, so I thought 25/2=12.5lbs. And I keep forgetting the masterwork cost is already included in the 1000, hence the additional 150 gp. Thanks for pointing that out. So, 1100gp, 1lbs, +2AC; still nice for a familiar in addition to its natural armor bonus.. and its just great for fluff.
Moribund 02-12-07, 08:47 AM	I'm pretty sure they have vulture stats in Sandstorm, along with the ever popular dire vulture. They get resistance to disease.